View Full Version : Helicopter crash caught on film
eivissa
23rd Jul 2010, 17:11
Sad news again...
German news have also showed an eyewitness video of a Bell 407 (-> correction 206L) crashing in the united states today, but I wasnt able to find the video or news about it yet. In this case it was mentioned that luckily no one was hurt.
Gordy
23rd Jul 2010, 17:39
The 407 was in fact an 206L3.....in Nevada that happened a few days ago. Yes there is video of the crash out there.
HU500D
23rd Jul 2010, 18:00
http://vtolblog.com/?p=3375 (http://vtolblog.com/?p=3375)
Hell Man
24th Jul 2010, 04:23
At a guess I'd say the 206L pilot misjudged his departing dive off the ledge building up speed but not height. Could be wrong but that's my speculation!
I think we've all dived from rigs, ships, buildings and terrain but .. for me its usually when there are no pax and the dive (or bunt) is in proportion to the available space. Little distance from take off location to ground .. small dive and vica versa!
Thank God they all got out of it. Just hate seein helo crashes. :(
sycamore
24th Jul 2010, 16:10
I think maybe he descended in the down vortex he had generated over the ridge,and possibly clipped the tail ,flaring at the bottom to pull out....
GeorgeMandes
25th Jul 2010, 20:22
Assuming the L 3 pilot didn't have a mechanical, I just can't figure out what he was trying to do?
Helicopter Crash Caught On Camera - Portland News Story - WMTW Portland (http://www.wmtw.com/news/24368321/detail.html)
Did he go past some wires just after descending off the cliff top?
Never in Balance
27th Jul 2010, 06:17
It will be interesting to read the Accident Report on this one. Does anyone have anymore details?
NiB.
skadi
27th Jul 2010, 07:54
Assuming the L 3 pilot didn't have a mechanical, I just can't figure out what he was trying to do?
Could it be a "Hot and High" related problem? Misjudging the diveaway and clipping some trees/bushes?
skadi
malabo
27th Jul 2010, 14:45
He didn't have any problem with power picking up from the toe-in, so the "hot and high" concern may have been overestimated in his own head. Looks like he just overpitched the dive thinking he had lots of drop room and the little speed he picked up didn't overcome the downward momentum. Not a lot of lift from a rotor tilted that far from horizontal. Good training video for mountain flying.
Gordy
27th Jul 2010, 16:05
OK, lets see if we can put this to bed. I will not offer opinion as to the initial cause of the accident, but relay this is 2nd hand info.
The pilot claims he had a gust of combination tail wind and downdraft right after he lifted off. He is a high time mountain pilot with thousands of hours in the accident helicopter, let alone the others he flies. (He is recovering from a fracture in his L1 vertebrae but ultimately will be fine).
From the video you can see he nose dived off the rock to gain airspeed, however was still on the backside of the power curve when he hit the ground the first time. He basically had insufficient airspeed to give him enough energy for a successful flare. During the first "bounce" which is below the tree line and off camera, the skid and cross tube assembly is ripped off the aircraft. The helicopter then becomes airborne again, and soon is seen spinning to the right on impact for the second time. I suspect is spinning right due to a high amount of collective, but this could be due to T/R damage.
I wish the pilot speedy recovery.
FH1100 Pilot
27th Jul 2010, 19:54
The pilot claims he had a gust of combination tail wind and downdraft right after he lifted off.
Yeah...maybe... He can "claim" anything he wants. What we see in the video is a nice, stable, OGE hover. Then we see a very deliberate nose-down pitch, which results in an extremely high rate of descent. That *might* have worked at sea level, but up there?
Meh- high mountain-time guy or not, we all screw up sooner or later. All we can do is hope that ours isn't caught on camera like that.
GeorgeMandes
28th Jul 2010, 04:45
Without criticizing the pilot, I can't figure out why the very nose down attitude. At that altitude he would have had 100 per cent torque available, plus whatever transient necessary, and since this was not an L4 with the high altitude tail rotor, I was looking for, but didn't see anything suggesting he ran out of tail rotor authority.
Given he could hover OGE and turn right, why couldn't he have just traded a few feet of altitude to recover airspeed quicker, fly on, and if necessary over fly his LZ and come back making an into the wind more normal approach? What I see in the video looks like he departs the rescue site and tries to make an immediate descent to a landing.
Bitmonx
28th Jul 2010, 08:37
I think to dive to the LZ at that altitude with an L3 (never flown one) or any other heli with 3 fire fighters at 7800 feet could be considered reckless. According to the preliminary report the winds were gusting 19 knots. Having 19 knots at your tail at the wrong time can make accidents like this happen.
Maybe if it was a 407 or a AS350 nothing would have happened since their Rotor systems react faster to pilot input.
Arm out the window
28th Jul 2010, 09:39
IAS / TAS relationship - high DA; control inputs don't have the same effect as they do at sea level. Think of a high DA auto - you need to flare earlier and quicker, and flares aren't as effective. Turn radius depends on TAS, which can surprise us.
My gut feeling is that it's a similar situation here - the pilot's launched off on a downward vector and gone to arrest it with rearward cyclic and as much collective as he can get, but it's not enough.
This is just conjecture, and it's been stated that the guy was experienced, so I'll admit I could be way off track too.
RJ Kanary
28th Jul 2010, 16:52
A question from a decidedly non- aviation knowledgeable type.During his breathtaking descent, there appeared to be a rapid and sizable increase in main rotor speed.
What conditions would have allowed this to occur? Entering air that had already been chewed to bits by the hover, or a flight control command by the pilot the REALLY wasn't the thing to do for that situation?
RJ
Gordy
28th Jul 2010, 17:01
Probably not as much increase as you think---most of the sound is due to doppler effect as the aircraft was flying towards the camera. Tis why police car sirens sound higher frequency when coming towards you vs going away from you.
There would have been some increase in RRPM as the disc became unloaded in the short descent.
Turning downwind at high DA is always going to bite harder than doing it at SL, especially when you're heavy - it would appear that the direction of transition was a poor choice and, if the intended LS was near where they crashed, a bigger circuit with into-wind transitions might have been a better option.