Shameful discrimination against military personnel

[Fatsbat]

My son is an SAC. Just got back from somewhere hot and sandy. He went with two civvy friends to Yates’ bar in Wolverhampton. When the door man clocked his ID he and his mates were refused entry. Probably did him a favour, I can think of better places to go.

It’s the principle that annoys me. Has anyone else been turned away from anywhere just because they are military personnel?

The lads are well turned out and not the rowdy type. Maybe his tan wasn’t dark enough.

:mad:

[light_my_spey]

As a new post are you journo baiting?! :}
Not had it happen to me personally but remember the last couple of conflicts have not been the most popular with some of the general public so I think you should tell your son not to take it to heart, it seems to happen everwhere these days. Personally I will always be truely grateful for what you and your family have dealt with this summer.

respectfully,

LMS.

[Fatsbat]

Just re-registered. I have been reading the forum for years but have never been prompted to say anything until now, couldn’t find my login. No I’m not a journo only a proud Dad saddened that some people can get away with this. Thanks for your support. I can imagine some members of other persuasions would have found discrimination like this a cause to riot in the streets.
Commendably my son he did not argue, just walked away and went to another pub. When the landlord of The Lady Wulfrun found out about the incident he and his mates got a free pint. Restores ones faith a bit.

[goudie]

'Clocked his ID'? I'm puzzled, was he compelled to show the doorman his 1250?
What ID did his mates show?

[Chainkicker]

Proof of age maybe?

[vecvechookattack]

Maybe his tan wasn’t dark enough.


What is that supposed to mean...?????


Please remove this thread

[Fatsbat]

Goudie, his RAF ID (MOD form 90) was visible when he opened his wallet. He was asked to show his driving license, presumably to prove his age. His pals just got turned away because they were with him.
Fats

[Fatsbat]

Sorry vecvechookattack One has to be so PC nowadays for fear of offending those of a sensitive persuasion. Another form of discrimination I suppose.

[The Old Fat One]

Nothing to do with being PC and us being sensitive. Your comment was racist and not acceptable.

[Old-Duffer]

Fatsbat and the other bloke.

The correct terms now are:
a. "melanistically different"

or

b. "citizens of the new Commonwealth and emergent nations"

Hope this short course in PC speak has been helpful!!!!

However, back to the original gripe: don't show a service ID unless you specifically want to identified - use some other ID including a birth certificate (!!). If the circumstances as reported apply, complain to the Licensing Authority or go to the local newspaper and rubbish the club.

[Fatsbat]

Old fat one, It was not meant to be racist just a flippant observation. Have you been to Wolverhampton? Is it acceptable to refuse entry to an establishment because the person is a serving member of the armed services?

[MightyGem]

This is probably not uncommon. Here in Warrington, where this has happened a couplke of times recently, licenced premises have a list of forms of ID that can be accepted, as part of their Licence. Military ID cards are not on the list. Accepting them could lead to prosecution. The local council is working to get this changed.

[newbiep]

Firstly, you didn't state that he used his military ID in the first place. Secondly surely driving licence is better in those circumstances for proof of age.
Thirdly groups of young men are often refused from bars.
Fourthly stating that his skin was the wrong colour, well you need to go and give yourself a slap for that comment alone.

All I would say is this is a non starter, there are two sides to every story and often a different version a minute when a group of well refreshed young lads and lasses turn up at a bar with a queue...which I am guessing there probably was if they had to show ID in the first place.

Well done to the bar for being responsible and checking ages of those entering. Not entirely sure that you have an actual point here......

[Fatsbat]

Old-Duffer. Thanks for educating me, I will remember to use such phrases in future should the need arise. I think your idea of writing to the local paper is a good one. Much better than trying to get any support from here. My son has learned a lesson also. He will not be keeping his ID in the clear plastic pocket of his wallet in future. Sad is it not?

[Dan Gerous]

Happened to me twice, once around 82/83 in Inverness. 4 of us were refused entry to a club because we were military. They had had problems with the grunts based at Fort George in Inverness. We showed them our RAF ID's but they were having none of it. Second time was in Hereford at the Crystal Room (I think that was what it was called), in 84. We were not given a reason. Their loss, we took our custom elsewhere and still had a good time.

[Fatsbat]

Newbiep. Read my posts again carefully and you may then understand that I did not say he used his RAF ID as proof of age. He was attempting to get his driving license out when the doorman spotted it in his wallet. Your suspicion that he was with a group of drunken lads and lasses is quite wrong. You are just trying to write another side of this story that just does not exist. I did not state he was the wrong colour either. He is tanned from being in the sun. looks rather good on him actually.
The point is quite obvious. The doorman refused entry to my son and his friends because he is in the RAF. Shame on the doorman and you.

[kaikohe76]

Old Fat One,

If your this easily offended, you are going to have one hell of a life!

[newbiep]

Shame on me?! Not really you stated that he had the wrong shade of tan with the express intention of inciting racial discrimination. You also implied that the geographical location, Wolverhampton, meant that white people are discriminated against. I understood that your son took out his driving licence and his ID was spotted. I did infer that he may have been with a group of drunk people but why else would you choose to go to a Yates Wine Lodge. Lets face it, you don't go there for the food....don't pretend to be naive and assume that a group of young people go out on the town for a quiet drink and a chat. The are out to decompress, share their experiences and have fun of course they are merry. No need to be agressive with me. If they had pitched up on a Sunday afternoon in uniform and been refused entry then you may have had a point. I don't think you do. Mountain and molehill springs to mind. Stop trying to fish for stories where military people have had a hard time from the general public.

[Torque Tonight]

I've been to a Yates' and it was s--t. I've also been to Wolverhampton and that too was s--t. It sends a shiver down my spine to imagine just how bad Yates' Wolverhampton must be. S--t squared I would guess. The bouncer was probably doing your lad a favour really.

I can't help but feel that this is a case of 'Dry your eyes, Princess'. Man up and move on. Plenty of worse things than this happen every day - it really isn't worth starting a battle over. All-male groups getting refused entry to bars is nothing unusual and I presume it didn't stop him slaking his thirst elsewhere that night. If he's still losing sleep over it tell him to never go back there, and for his mates to do this same. Otherwise grow a thicker skin and find something more pressing to drip about.:rolleyes:

[Archimedes]

I have a feeling that this may be company policy on the part of Yates' - there have been at least two threads over on Arrse in the last 18 months or so reporting the doormen at a couple of Yates establishments (not including Wolverhampton) denying entry to anyone they identify as service personnel.

The local paper - the Express and Star - is generally pro-forces, and its most popular columnist, a chap called Peter Rhodes, is an ex-TA officer (IIRC, he deployed on Granby). He is unsurprisingly pro-forces and has a habit of being forthright. Think Jeremy Clarkson but a bit more direct.

As an added bonus, the Star has a policy of shifting stories around as the paper goes through the day, which usually means that the final edition will have several stories appearing at least twice, and often three times, so the chance of the OP's complaint being seen, if he writes, are pretty high...

By the by, the Wolverhampton Yates' spontaneously combusts every two and a bit years or so, and if memory serves, precedent suggests it'll go up in smoke some time next year to the distress of a large number of slightly overweight teenage girls with a habit of wearing slightly less clothing than is generally advisable on a night when even a Geordie might consider donning a thin sweater.

[Fatsbat]

Kaikohe76 I have to agree. I don’t think he could cope well in the armed forces. May be the cub scouts would suit him.:)

[groundbum]

i think the thread has moved on from whether a military id is acceptable form of proof of age.

Recently in Yorkshire Tesco's refused to serve alcohol to a serviceman as all he had was his military id. This made the newspapers predcitably, and it came back from Tesco that they had asked the MOD for example IDs so they could train their staff. The MOD had said no, as they didn't want examples of military id in general circulation, which seems fair enuf. So really there are two sides to using military id as proof of age. And i know the thread has moved on, not being thick....

G

[Fatsbat]

Torque tonight. He isn’t losing any sleep over it. They just went to the pub down the road. His mates mentioned the incident to the Landlord. He was so disgusted he gave them all a free pint to show his support. So they are not all bad in Wolverhampton. Its me that’s upset about doormen and companies being able to get away with discrimination like this. Some of us care and think our boys and girls serving in the armed forces deserve more respect. Sorry you don’t.

[pasir]

... Regarding "Please have this thread removed" - Yes Provided its the
authors. Having suffered the past 13 years of PC dictating.


...

[Fatsbat]

Archimedes. Thanks for you comments. I will follow up on your advice.

[Torque Tonight]

Oh but I do care. In fact having worn the blue uniform until relatively recent times I have a vested interest in the welfare of our people. I too have had a run-in with a local establishment where a large group of us from the RAF station were told by a member of the pub staff "We're not supposed to serve you lot here".

Let me tell you that nothing gave us greater pleasure than never going back there and ensuring that the entire officer and aircrew corps of a major flying station embargoed the place until they went bust and the management changed. What I did learn from the experience was that it's not worth wasting too many heartbeats over.

He has two options: Forget about it, go back, and have good nights out there in the future; or never go back, make sure as many friends and colleagues do the same and take some pleasure in damaging their profit margins.

Either way, don't make a drama out of what is really not a very important issue in the big scheme of things - it's not worth the emotional energy - especially Yates' which is still a s--thole dive.

[Fatsbat]

Groundbum. Quite agree with the MODs stance on using military ID as proof of age. In this case it was not offered as such. My son was getting his driving license out of his wallet when the doorman observed his ID in a clear plastic pocket. This was enough to get him refused entry. Sad country we live in where our military lads and lasses have to hide their military ID for fear of being discriminated against. I have worked in the USA quite a lot and their armed forces are shown far more respect. Most places are proud of their custom, even give discounts to attract them.

[Fatsbat]

Torque tonight. He has forgotten about it. He is not the sensitive type. I am glad you were able to put an establishment with a similar attitude out of business. That is my reason for posting really. I am just trying to find out if this is a common problem and if it is do something about it. I agree there are bigger issues. My son his doing his bit to try and sort some of them out. I just think this sort of discrimination against our armed forces is unacceptable and want to show my support and try and stop it.

[Herc-u-lease]

i've been turned away from multiple establishments for being in possession of a 1250, i'm not the type to use it as primary ID - it was noticed as in the OP story. it's happened in Oxford, Fleet and others that i probably can't think of. it's not about whether your lad is a good egg or not, it's the fact that some bunch of idiots have ruined it before him.

I don't blame the bouncer, the landlord or society. merely the minority W***ers who have sullied the reputation of the wider armed forces. I'm sure i'll get over it:{, plenty more bars on the high street.

[Talk Reaction]

Amazing this is now personally about fatsbat and his son and how they're dealing with it or not. Chucked in a little 'you're being racist' for what may be slightly ill-worded but probably doesn't have a shred of malicious intent to anyone.

Surely the real point here is, a chap was refused entry to a (shoddy) establishment for being in HM Forces. It is unacceptable and happens all too often. Leave the bloke alone, we should all be on his side or we should probably be reading another forum.

Fatsbat, your son is too worthy to drink in a Yates, clearly from your post he found a much better pub anyway. I totally agree with you that it's appalling, Mps want to assure us of how highly they value us, maybe a simple email to your MP could assuage your anger and prevent future young chaps being treated this way, better still maybe all yates and similar 'establishments' could be closed down saving us all from £1 for a double!!!!

[Torque Tonight]

Fatsbat, you may have caught me in a slightly grumpy mood for which I apologize. It is entirely understandable that you should be affronted on your lad's behalf. But, I still believe it's not worth getting too stressed over. Striking Yates' from the list is no great loss and most venues welcome Forces people with open arms (and sometimes discounts).

[newbiep]

Have to agree with Herc-u-lease point here, living on an overseas base at the moment, and the recent (military) visitors have broken into the pool and defecated on two occasions and even if only 3 of them did that you can be sure that the rest peed in the pool. They have started fights with the local kids on the base, sunbathed naked, stripped off on the family beaches and generally caused havoc. And all that is on their own door step so to speak. I am not tarring your son with that brush but in a group people have a strength that they do not normally possess as individuals. That is exactly what we are looking for when they are fighting for Queen and Country (and their mates) but you can see why it doesn't translate well into normal life.
I am merely stating examples to illustrate a point that sober or not groups of young people tend to think that they can do what they want where they want without reproach. Back to my original point before you jumped down my throat......2 sides to every story.

[Trim Stab]

I don't blame the bouncer, the landlord or society. merely the minority W***ers who have sullied the reputation of the wider armed forces. I'm sure i'll get over ithttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif, plenty more bars on the high street.


HEL - well said. The minority who spoil the party for the majority should be properly reprimanded. Then the majority who deserve a celebratory welcome would not have to suffer this sort of indignity. They would be welcomed as they deserve to be welcomed.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I just think this sort of discrimination against our armed forces is unacceptable and want to show my support and try and stop it.

Oh please get over yourself. I almost yearn for the good old days when establishments practically put signs at the door saying 'no squaddies' and you were sure of being battered if there was a whiff of forces about you. We have one side of a rubbish story from the 'concerned father' of an SAC who joined this site to post about a non-story on the doorstep of a random pub. Nobody has a right to be served and anyone can be turned away for no given reason. Perhaps the pub has had bother with forces personnel? Perhaps you might take your questions to the bar in question - see whether the licensee has an answer for you? I'm serving. I don't care that some crappy bar turns people away for their own reasons. We're not all heroes because of our job like some believe - heroes are born from circumstance and actions, not because they have a card in their wallet.

[newbiep]

Mr C Hinecap :D

[PPRuNe Pop]

From the first post this thread had no-where to go. Sorry but after two pages it should have settled down but it is clear that no-one is prepared to do that. Sad that.