Phantom approaches

[kevmusic]

Had the privelege of chatting to an ex-navy pilot today, at the Tiger Club. Flew everything from Sea Venoms to Buccaneers and Phantoms. His description of the deck approach in Phantoms sounds particularly hairy - "no cut, no flare". IIRC the approach was with 85% power at 136 kts, everything a-dangle. If you didn't get waved off at 200 yds you were commited. A tiny increase in alpha and she would drop, so you just had to stay put, in the attitude.

Balls of steel, or what! :} Hats off to these guys. :D Nowadays, aged 80, or so, he races vintage yachts........

[johnfairr]

You don't land an F-4, the driver just drives it onto the runway/flight-deck. More of a controlled crash - well that's what it felt like in the back, anyway! :\

[4Greens]

Scimitar was the same. Hold an attitude, power for rate of descent and hit the deck, then chop the power. In fact on RN carriers line up was most critical as there were objects or aircraft very close to each wingtip.

[green granite]

A Bucc pilot suggested to me that he didn't land, he arrived.

[blaireau]

Very little ground effect on the deck, as it spills overboard. Ashore, this effect reduced the actual touchdown RoD whilst you were holding constant attitude and AOA.

The 136kts mentioned is IAS of course, but the ship is trying to produce 30kts of wind across the deck. A combination of ship speed and natural wind. Thus speed over the round-down was a little over 100kts.

In light wind, or calm conditions, the ship could hunt for wind with exciting changes of course for the poor sod on a CCA. ( The centre line suddenly moving off to one side or the other)

All good clean fun of course.

[fantom]

All of my landings were perfect; the nav had to check the rad alt to confirm we were on the ground.

not

[blaireau]

Fantom. What was that RAFG final approach speed?

[Smoketoomuch]

Is it right that ailerons were not to be used at low speed, and that roll was controlled with the rudder? If so how was yaw controlled?

[fantom]

Fantom. What was that RAFG final approach speed?


You mean my last landing? 196 kts; I'll never forget it. Leading edge flap air pipe waving in the wind and full right stick on the donut. Buggah.

[fantom]

Is it right that ailerons were not to be used at low speed, and that roll was controlled with the rudder? If so how was yaw controlled?


Not quite. It was at high speed. The drag would induce adverse yaw and you might (would) flick very rapidly.

[BEagle]

He's confusing low speed with high AoA.

"If it buffets, use yer boots!" - a simple and sound mantra! I recall the 'high AoA' dual trip with the Trg Off - very stressful and unnatural to do complete 'head down' 360 deg rudder rolls whilst holding an upper chevron...:uhoh: The second part of the dual trip was 'AAR intro.' - a typically daft combination of exercises but that's the way it was back then.....:bored:

[Geehovah]

"Gear, flaps, Pressures, gumshield!"

And the best ever top tip for a backseater; don't look over your shoulder when landing into the Stanley cable. Akrotiri in comparison was a breeze

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/RHAG.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Aircraft/92AKRwithchute.jpg

[Tashengurt]

Much more mundane than aircrew speak but MB6! horrible 'chutes. Give me a nice easy British LB11 anyday.

[kevmusic]

Found this clip of some relevance. My chap served on 'Ark Royal'.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SgLhK7ZT3zc&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SgLhK7ZT3zc&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[richlear]

Great clip! Respect.

[Biggles78]

Great photo post #14. :ok:

[blaireau]

I well recall my first ever deck landing, (Mar 28th 1974). So does the experienced observer who sat behind me. We made a long taxi into One wire as I recall. The target for the F4 was 3 wire.

The U Tube clip above features the dulcet tones of Peter Sheppard, the LSO, on the sight, Punchy Doust as Little F, and Bob Northard as Wings. Wilf Graham was Captain.

Before going to the deck for the first time, Peter showed new boys a few horror clips of past deck accidents. They illustrated errors such as wrong line-up, too low, flying the deck, etc etc. These certainly went some way to making the whole event more interesting. And, of course, there was a huge audience in Goofers with cameras at the ready. (Please God, do't let there be an accident, but if there is, can I be there with a camera?)

Ah. Heady days!

[david parry]

http://usera.ImageCave.com/scouse/31696_131828380160579_100000002540709_391685_6846190_n(1).jp g not forgetting Little Wilf:ok: http://usera.ImageCave.com/scouse/Phantom_waist_cat_rejected_launch_Ark_Royal_197koiuyt4.jpg

[david parry]

For the Scimitars 800sqdn and Sea Vixen 890 sqdn Old and Bolds, Whirlwind at plane guard Ark 63, YouTube - Ark Royal 1963 Singapore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2kCxAijuQ0)

[John Eacott]

http://usera.ImageCave.com/scouse/Ph...197koiuyt4.jpg (http://usera.imagecave.com/scouse/Phantom_waist_cat_rejected_launch_Ark_Royal_197koiuyt4.jpg)


I guess it's a feature of t'internet, but that photo is one of mine :rolleyes:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1678-1/Phantom+waist+cat+rejected+launch+Ark+Royal+1974.jpg

Maybe one of these was blaireau?

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1620-1/Phantom+003+about+to+hook+3+wire+Ark+Royal.jpg

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1680-1/Phantom+XV531+picking+4+wire+Ark+Royal.jpg

Plenty of room, really...

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/3276-2/F4K+002+landing+with+crew+in+051+Spot+6.jpg

Taken alongside Peter Sheppard:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1662-1/Phantom+touch+down+no3+wire+LSO+Ark+1973.jpg

[david parry]

:rolleyes: I did ask !! and was given your permission to "BORROW" some of your pics many moons ago. Am i to understand im on Sirs Defaulters now???:ooh: