RIAT 2010: What time is F-22 flying on Sun??

[Whizzwheel]

Anyone go today, or have access to a schedule?

[gareth herts]

16.00 today and tomorrow I believe.

[Aerouk]

Yup, flew today as well and was awesome :ok:

[barnstormer1968]

As per above, 1600.
The F22 was literally in a class of it's own. A stunning display.
XH558 was at 17.00

The A400 looked sedate, but totally uninspiring IMHO

[MichaelBuckle]

It's due up at 14:40 today and it is a remarkable display, I imagine he'll be performing the limited display today though!


Cheers,
Mike

[sera]

Saw it yesterday, it was pretty special. Commentary was making everyone chuckle - it's very Team America!

[barnstormer1968]

Sera
Did you notice how the commentator said the F22 was the most advanced combat ready fighter in the world, and that no other combat ready fighter can perform the same manoeuvres!

I could not help think that the words 'combat ready' have had to be added recently!

[Xercules]

Would barnstormer like to explain what kind of display from A400M he would expect to remove his very ho of its being sedate. That display was from an aircraft equipped with about 18 tonnes of flight test equipment in the cargo bay not your hacked down empty aircraft. When did a C130 or C17 last display a 120 degree wing over?

[Stu666]

Perhaps they should have waited before displaying the A400 because to me it looked very much like a lumbering, poor man's C-17. I could not get over how much slower it was than the C-17, although admittedly I did not know at the time it had 18 tonnes of test equipment in the back, and I doubt your average Joe Blogg would as well.

F-22 display (Saturday) was incredible, commentary was comical however, some people were in hysterics where I was standing.

[BEagle]

Would barnstormer like to explain what kind of display from A400M he would expect to remove his very ho of its being sedate.

In English, please?

[Xercules]

I was referring to his criticism of A400M IMHO. I believe that the HO bit means "humble opinion".

[barnstormer1968]

Hi
I don't know if explaining the last two words of a four letter acronym (so assuming you know the first two, it would be reasonable to assume the know the last two) that is used on PPRuNe on a regular basis is a clever start to a sensible conversation.

even that or you seem to be accusing me of low morals by using an Americanism!:}

So, carrying on, and assuming you know the definition of sedate (as in calm, quiet and undisturbed, and a term often applied to the ride in a Rolls Royce car) I have no idea why you think that is not apt!
So, if you saw the display, do you think the slow roll (no matter what its angle) and turns of the A400 were anything other than sedate?

If you thought it had a high roll rate or dramatic climb to height speed, I would suggest you may have been looking at another aircraft.

If it had 18 tonnes of test gear on it (which the commentator mentioned over the PA system) then big deal......It's an AT aircraft and its job will be to move loads....In the air! So I guess it should not be a problem.

Yes, I found it uninspiring too. It was slower than the C17 (which did great displays IMHO), and if you are impressed by the roll it did, what on earth would you make of the F27 acrobatic displays, from what is essentially a small airliner.

Does that answer your enquiry?

[Stu666]

Although you have put the words in my mouth, the C-17 LOOKED positively high speed and agile compared to the A400. I'm sure when testing is finished etc it will be flown with more gusto, but I can't help but feel it was a little premature to display it at RIAT, and the impressive C-17 display shortly before didn't do it any favours.

[barnstormer1968]

Steady on Stu....You will be called to account (for stating the obvious):E

Just as well I did not mention my frustration at how the RAF are not going to be the lead customer for the A400, bearing in mind how much we could do with some new AT right now in comparison to other European air forces!


Maybe I can appease the A400 fan club by dusting off my official A400 roll out DVD, and placing the model A400 I got presented with (from Airbus) back on my PC desk!

[sera]

barnstormer1968 - yes I did!

A400M was rather ponderous, but hey, it's the equivalent of a Transit van so we'll let it off. And I'm always far more impressed by how quickly they can get those beasts stopped when they put their minds to it.

I see this year they've learnt and put the Red Arrows and the Vulcan to the end of the display to keep bums on seats.

[Mach the Knife]

Back to the F22 topic, enough of that fat plane rubbish....
What a great aircraft and a very impressive flying display, but thank god for the reheat. It successfully managed to drown out most of the unbelievably crap and cringeworthy commentary, did that guy have a voice coach? surely that was not his real voice, and who wrote/approved it?

[denachtenmai]

Went yesterday,and must agree with the comments about the absurd build up by the commentator, but he was right, this plane is, to use an americanism that i normally abhor, AWESOME! especially when it set all the car alarms off on take off :D Nothing else that I saw came near to it's show.
Regards, Den.

[fade to grey]

F22 very impressive....
loving the in flight red leaders commands......hope the others understood....!!

[astir 8]

Dare one whisper that the Patrouille de France may have had the edge over the Reds?

[NUFC1892]

astir 8 Dare one whisper that the Patrouille de France may have had the edge over the Reds?

The black Omega's will be with you shortly, please pack a toothbrush

[Alber Ratman]

The American commentator for the F-22?? Was he a Master Sergeant rank?? Sounds like the one that did the F-15C display talk at RAIT in 04. He was comical (dumb yank). "Now Major Kong will show off his inflated ego!" :ugh: I liked the comentator for the Hungarian (Mig 29 or SU 27? Can't remember) pilot.."This pilot is one of the best display pilots of Fast Jets in the world.. He wins competitions.." Then the flying was left to explain itself..:ok:

[Sunk at Narvik]

Yep, the missus thought the Patrouille de France the best display, helped by the sun breaking through the clouds as they took off of course!

As an uneducated layman, I couldn't see what the F22 did that the Hornets didnt do earlier that morning? Yes its an attractive looking plane, yes the commentary was cringingly hilarious...but...hmmmm. You obviously need an airmans trained eye.

Great show, will be back next year :)

[Windy Militant]

Mr Narvik,
The Master Sergeant was a model of restraint compared to the commentator for the Turkish Stars, but nowhere near as funny!
Don't forget the Hornet driver would have been, as our Australian colleagues would say "giving it the berries" where as the F22 pilot would have been seriously sandbagging to avoid Uncle Ivan and his mates seeing what it could really do!
Myself I enjoyed the King Air Display, but a shame the sun didn't come out for him like it did last year. ;)

[Tom Laxey]

A great airshow again from RIAT

Seeing the F-22, and for that matter other US planes that have been around much longer (F-18, C-17), and comparing these with the equivalent European efforts makes one see that the 'capability gap' is widening. (I could wait and see what the A400M can do in 2 years time. )

The F-22 was an amazing display, and whereas the Russians can do similar things with their Su-35s and so on, there is every reason to think that the F-22 is a full military capability whose vehicle performance is matched by equivalent combat capability and survivability.

Can one imagine the RIAT or Farnborough display of 20years time? There will be CTOL and STOVL F-35s vying with perhaps an export F-22. And perhaps also similarly competing US UCAV options, which can already be seen in their early stages today. What will European manufacturers be able to offer at that point? Eurofighter with a new radar? An 'ISTAR' UAV or two perhaps?

At least there is reason to think that Airbus will still be dining at the 'top table'.

[Aerouk]

Patrouille de France were superb, far better than the Reds although I had a great chat with the Reds.

[Wycombe]

Sunk at Narvik said:

As an uneducated layman, I couldn't see what the F22 did that the Hornets didnt do earlier that morning?

Ok, I'll have a go (I'm sure others will provide more "proper" names for some of the manouevers):

- a loop that was nearly tight enough to be called a summersault
- a climb to zero speed, with a yaw/point and fly-away in level attitude at the top
- a climb to zero speed followed by a (long) tailslide
- controlled descent in almost flat attitude with almost no forward airspeed

May have forgotten a few, but hope that'll do for starters.

Not to say the Super Hornet wasn't pretty impressive as well.

Other highlights (there were lots):

- Chinook and GR4 Role demo's
- A400M (impressive for such a new/low hours machine IMHO)
- Dutch F16 and AH64 combo - just for being something different
- BoB set piece - well done RIAT for getting the Mil and civvy-owned warbirds all in the same piece of sky at once (remember a time when this might not have been possible).

Had a great day, thanks to all who continue to make it happen.

[Aerouk]

I was slightly disappointed that we had no RN or AAC aircraft flying and no parachute display teams the UK but I fully understand you've got other things on your mind.

Surprised the Blades weren't flying either to be honest, I think they're a lot better than the Jordan display team.

[J52]

Did you all forget to take your cameras with you? Interesting comments if you were there to see it, but meaningless to those of us on the other side of the world who weren't there.

[Dysonsphere]

Vulcan

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac232/dysonsphere/VulcanFairford.jpg?t=1279621078

F22

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac232/dysonsphere/F22Fairford.jpg?t=1279621078

want any more PM me

[Back at NH]

Why the comparisons between A400M and C17? Different beasts - one's turboprop powered to start with.

Raptor was excellent - always had a soft spot for the Dutch F-16 display.

E6B Mercury on the static line was 'unusual'

[barnstormer1968]

J52

I did take a couple of cameras, but with no external references in frame, the feats performed by the F22 would be meaningless. It turned 180 degrees nearly within its own length, but this will not show on video properly.

Also I only had a standard memory card, so would not have had enough memory to record the slow flying speed of the A400:}

Back to being serious, did anyone else think the F22 was flying slower than 90 knots during its high alpha slow speed pass?

I must also say, that with one exception (from an oxygen thieving family) every person I heard near to me thought the French display team were far better than the reds!

[Dysonsphere]

yes I would say it was say 50 knots very impressive

[Aerouk]

Not had a chance to have a good look at all of my photos or edit them, but here is some from the two days:

http://www.serveruk1.com/pprune/f22.jpg

http://www.serveruk1.com/pprune/f22-2.jpg

http://www.serveruk1.com/pprune/chinook.jpg

http://www.serveruk1.com/pprune/harrier.jpg

[JEM60]

Must have been the same commentator for the F.22 as at Oshkosh 3 years ago. Awsomely awful. I was rather surprised he didn't fall off his commentary platform, or have a heart attack from over enthusing. 3 years ago, he described it as 'ten years ahead of anything else in the sky' Oh, really. I showed a picture of a Typhoon to the person next to me when I heard that. His comment, 'we a'int never heard of that airplane over here Land of the free and land of misleading information.[No offence intended] Yes, it does fly very slowly etc., but is flying very slowly of great value in ai air battle?

[boftr]

Has the Typhoon ever been demonstrated at U.S. airshows?

If not, is it unreasonable to think that American audiences might not be familiar with a new-ish and still in low numbers produced fighter?

I know a gent who spent part of his career in the now defunct SAC. Never saw, much less heard of the Vulcan, indeed, any of the V-Force until he was long retired.

[JEM60]

BOFTR.
Your comment about the SAC member makes my point. Without seeing an F.22 over this side of the pond, I suspect that every English aircraft enthusiast worth his salt knew what an F.22 was before it visited these shores. The guy I showed the picture to at Oshkosh was an enthusiast.

[boftr]

I think the case is still to be made, but I will take your point.

[Zoota]

Call me a heathen, no doubt, but many times over the years I have thoughts the Red "out-classed" by other display teams, e.g. last year at RIAT (Sunday ) I thought the Frecce Tricolori beat them hands down, and I certainly back the view that the PDF "did" them this year

And.........at Waddington 2 weeks ago, I thought the Turkish all-stars also "bettered" them, and I think that was the first time I've seen another display team replicate "Reds" manouevres

But, if this was 1610 not 2010 no doubt I'd be burned at the stake - the Reds are brilliant but, like dog mess "they get everywhere" and are seen at so many UK events a year, and by so many people ( events that the FC, PDF, TAS etc etc etc DON'T appear at) that I suspect they have become a "national treasure" almost by default

Oh, and as for the F-22 - commentary just pathetic ( but no worse that the 15-minute stream of "patriotism" that accompanied the F-15 at RIAT in 2007 :) ) but clearly an exceptional aircraft, albeit not as outright attractive as the Typhoon

( and what a boring, boring, display THAT was, but that's another story )

[grandfer]

I overheard 3 of the USN E-6 Mercury crew while watching the RAF Typhoon display on Saturday morning at Fairford describing it's display as ,wait for it, "Awesome !"
So is a Typhoon as good as a Raptor ?
:ok:

[Smudger]

Mach the Knife.. (like you remember the song.. not) without the "fat plane rubbish" no wars could be fought, no humanitarian aid would ever happen and many millions of people's lives would be very much the poorer, so shut the f*** up and get real.

[JEM60]

Missing from RIAT was a man named John CAPEL He was associated with some work towards funding for the Vulcan, and was, I believe well known for setting the Pub Quiz in the camp site there
A very close friend of ours for many years, he sadly lost his life in a road accident a few days before Fairford. He was 56.

[barnstormer1968]

Many of you seem a bit annoyed with the commentary of the F22.
So, what was wrong with:
Theeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeef twenteeeee tooooooooooooooooooooo
Raaaaaaptooooooooooor :E

[grandfer]

Aerouk, isn't the Jordan Team now called the Katie Price Team ? 'ang on didn't she marry that Alex somebody ?
Also the mention of the "Black Omegas" , at Fairford they were using black Skodas !
:mad::eek::mad:

[Aerouk]

Aerouk, isn't the Jordan Team now called the Katie Price Team ? 'ang on didn't she marry that Alex somebody ?

Different team grandfer, you been reading too much Hello magazine again?

[J52]

Thanks for the photos. F22 looks like my Jag, sleek and smooth. Oh to be 30 years younger and working on this.

[Stu666]

To my untrained eye, the PDF display seemed almost identical to the Reds?

Who's copying who?

[Aerouk]

Stu666,

Small things like they were doing like the heart shape using more aircraft than the 3 aircraft the Reds use.

I liked how a lot of their displays were done while flying directly towards the crowd rather than from left to right.

[bar fly]

The Leader of the PDF sounded beautiful, even when she was under 5/6 g. Now it would be cool to say you were going out with the leader of an aerobatic display team....

:)

[Skittles]

The PDF were much better than the reds this time around. They flew some beautiful stuff.

Also, if you were impressed with the F-22 on Satuday/Sunday, you should have seen the thing in the Friday practise. It made the weekend's performance look tame!

[minigundiplomat]

PDF were good, but the display went on for what seemed like ages, with some quite long gaps where nothing happened. Also found the commentator struggling with the English for 'camera' amusing as he settled on 'photographic devices'.

[Wander00]

MGD - which is a literal translation from the French

[Zoota]

I'm hardly a pilot, so I have no idea ! But I suspect the Raptor could outperform the Typhoon, and have no grounds to disagree ( albeit unwillingly given the nauseating commentary :)) that it probably IS the most advanced fighter in the world, etc etc......

I just think the Typhoon a far more attractive aircraft visually

[412SP]

I wonder what the RCS is of the Typhoon vs. the -22?

Both impressive a/c, but I believe one is a generation ahead of the other.

Carry on...

[sitigeltfel]

"PDF" is document handling software, "PAF" is a French aerobatic team.


Pedant mode off.

[minigundiplomat]

Wander00


MGD - which is a literal translation from the French


Very true, but it was amusing in the context of the long pause while the words were found, and the slightly cheesy music playing in the background. It all added to what was a good display, and I don't find watching jets very exciting at all.