Emirates Sydney Engineers

[Bootstrap1]

If the rumours circulating are correct about Emirates downsizing their engineering department in Sydney, then I reckon that is a low act.

Is it the same at EKs other aussie ports? I can't believe that an airline the calibre of Emirates is going to let a backyard operator take over their line work.

Just remember you get what you pay for, and I think the new mobs motto is something like no care ,no responsibility.

[TURIN]

Anything to do with a shortage of qualified staff?

I know there are one or two European stations who are short staffed.

[Silverado]

Downsizing is an understatement, they are closing the Engineering department. AMSA (Singapore Airlines) will be taking over the facilities I believe.

Can anyone confirm MEL is also closing.

I hope all the guys find work with AMSA and Jetstar or elswhere.

Who's getting the Thai contract?

[727ace]

have heard the same will be found at the other line stations being outsourced to AMSA down the track from a :eek:source.
As has happened in NZ where ANZ now do all line duties

[cnsnz]

EK have at least 8 engineering staff working in AKL now servicing there 3 daily flights.
There was a change made in CHC where NZ now do checks due to only 1 flight with a 90min turn, not really economical to have an engineering base for that.

[another superlame]

Have Emirates offered these engineers positions elsewhere or is it just redundancy. This is a very low act for a company that is supposedly doing so well.

[Night Watch]

Any EK engineers out of a job should apply to CX in SYD.

I know direct from the horses mouth, that they are expanding and taking on more staff.

CX now has the largest engineering department after QF in SYD.

[another superlame]

Will CX be taking LAMEs or will they do what they always do and hire casual AMEs, leaving them hanging indefintely.

[sump oil]

EK have supposedly offered the SYD staff a position in DXB if they want to relocate. I doubt many would be interested in taking them up on the offer after the way they have been treated and after seeing the operation and working conditions in DXB, not to mention the pay cut with the strength of the AUD.

I somehow feel EK are playing with some serious smoke and mirrors, to announce a one billion dollar profit, then to axe a well established station in one of their key hubs does not make sense.

Either the Dubai government is taking EKs cash to prop itself up in the midst of Dubai economic troubles or EKs finances are not as rosey as they are portraying. Either way it is a sad state of affairs.

[Tom Sawyer]

The company (in the loosest term of the word) that have acquired the EK contract have been bringing in A380 qualified engineers from SIN for a couple of months now as obviously this has been negotiated for a while and they have had time to prep. It all fits in with hindsight, and not sure how they get around this given there are A380 qualified engineers available in Aus. So, not good news for the EK guys who are all top blokes and now unlikeley to get in with the other mob, even if they really wanted to.
Overall, I think (and hope) that this will fall flat on it's face in a short time and be a lesson to the other airlines round here that things aren't always cheaper in the long run. I hear a lot of stuff from good, reliable sources about the other company and some it's staff, and none of it is good. I know of one airline that has gone to them this year, and learnt the hard way that they are not as good or cheap as they look on paper and are already looking to get a real airline involved again on the maintenance side.
As for the TG contract, I do know who they are talking to, I know who else has been approached, but can't take it on, and one they maybe should have been in touch with.

[kiwi engineer12]

given there are A380 qualified engineers available in Aus
Besides the EK guys, who are these 'available' A380/GP7000 LAME's your are talking about? There are none in Australia, so maybe a few of the EK boys can get a position with the new maint provider.

I hear a lot of stuff from good, reliable sources about the other company and some it's staff, and none of it is good. I know of one airline that has gone to them this year, and learnt the hard way that they are not as good or cheap as they look on paper and are already looking to get a real airline involved again on the maintenance side.

The 'other' maint provider I think you are talking about were the first ever A380 maintenance outstation, and the boys there been have working/certing the A380 since 2007, and have a impressive dispatch record, better than QF apparently.

bringing in A380 qualified engineers from SIN for a couple of months now
Your dead right about this, how can the 'other' maint provider bring in all these temp guys from SIN, and not have to train or employ locals? Maybe because of the short stays the secondees have? Word is the likes of JHAS have big problems with the unions not allowing them to employ foreign 457 visa holders.

Its a real shame for the EK guys, I hope they find good positions elsewhere, their skills and experience would be hard to replace in Aus.

[Tom Sawyer]

Besides the EK guys, who are these 'available' A380/GP7000 LAME's your are talking about? There are none in Australia, so maybe a few of the EK boys can get a position with the new maint provider.

Thats the point. There would be more available if the new maint provider paid a wage more measurable to the local industry norm and tried to attract in local engineers rather than having to import them on short term visas. I didn't see jobs advertised so they obvioulsy went straight to SIN for the manpower.

The 'other' maint provider I think you are talking about were the first ever A380 maintenance outstation, and the boys there been have working/certing the A380 since 2007, and have a impressive dispatch record, better than QF apparently.

I wasn't particularly refering to A380s. I just know of an AOG situation that was not dealt with very well for an airline that are now not very happy with the maint provider. In fact the airline used a contact and managed to use some manpower from another airline to clear up the AOG as the contracted company were less than helpful.

Overall, not good for the EK guys or any locals looking to move onwards.

[Worrals in the wilds]

CX now has the largest engineering department after QF in SYD.

They are pretty big in BNE too, and have had the EK engineering contract there from the beginning.

[Bolty McBolt]

Either the Dubai government is taking EKs cash to prop itself up in the midst of Dubai economic troubles or EKs finances are not as rosey as they are portraying.

If the rumours around SYD airport are anything to go by, the closure has nothing to do with the financial state of EK ,
:ouch:

[Praise Jebus]

OK Bolty, share them with us. This is a rumour network after all...

[Jet-A-One]

Something needs to be done about this particular engineering service provider!

Bringing in engineers on 457 visas purely because their pay and conditions are so bad that local engineers won't work for them is in breach of visa legislation and undermines engineering standards in this country.

[QF22]

Not only are they importing cheap LAMEs on lousey conditions. they will soon be bringing in AMEs from Spore too!
How are they able to do this ? ? ?
Perhaps the ALAEA and AMWU should make some enquiries.

[aiming point]

The 457 Visas are are a con-job of the highest order being used way out of context as a "weapon" to undermine, weaken and destroy the working conditions of Australians.

Its abuse by the "bosses" must be halted before things go too far and it becomes too late.

Train right and reward rightly....Australians in Australia.....there is no shortage, just a shortage of moral fiber, patriotism and truth at the "top".

[SeldomFixit]

A contribution from your Fed Sec about now would be timely and perhaps enlightening.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Train right and reward rightly....Australians in Australia.....there is no shortage, just a shortage of moral fiber, patriotism and truth at the "top".

Careful now! You will be branded a racist with talk like that!

I fully agree, 457 visas are being used as a tool to undermine local pay and conditions. "Geez, those lazy Aussies. We offer them jobs but they turn them down. We need foreign labour now". (Who would be willing to work for the rubbish pay and conditions on offer).

[kiwi engineer12]

I was told the SIAEC guys only come over for 1-2 months at a time, the main reason they started being support of the V Aus operation, but now are needed for all the other operators.

[Exit Strategy]

When will the Government (FWA, Immigration, ATO etc) get onto the issue of airlines using employees in Australia that are employed offshore to avoid the company concerned having to abide by laws and taxes that they don't want to deal with.

This issue applies to Engineers, Cabin Crew and Pilots.

[QF22]

They do send LAEs down to Oz on 1,2 n 3 mth postings. But they also have imported lots of LaEs permanently.
Most use it as a stepping stone, and move on asap bcoz of the lousey conditions.
The latest batch of LAEs and AMEs will be coming for one year, and the rest.

[QF94]

CX now has the largest engineering department after QF in SYD.

Won't be long before they are the biggest engineering department in SYD. Afterall, QF helped all the other organisations in SYD by giving away the contracts they had that were making money.

Maybe EK went to the same school of "management" as QF (How do you get into a small business? Start off in a big one).

[division1]

maybe the guy who destroyed qf line maint is now working for emirates.

[QF22]

Nah He's Back At Nsw Rail Creating Another Centre Of Excellence ! ! !

[Bellcrank 74]

Any idea if AMSA have taken on any of these guys???

[listentome]

Apparantely AMSA cant hire the EK boys due to Fair Work Australia regulations, unless they pay them the same pay and conditions as they are on with EK. I think its called the transfer business rule or something like that. It prevents companies taking contracts by undercutting then hiring back the staff on cheaper wages etc. A real loophole that stops crappy cheap companies undermining Australian workers conditions. Good stuff:ok:

[Gas Bags]

I have heard that AMSA changed hands in recent years. Does anyone know who the current owners of the business are?

GB

[600ft-lb]

AMSA is owned by SIAEC these days and have been for a while. Not that it really means anything because I believe they lost the contract in the past to look after their parents aircraft. But they have 'won' a contract to do Emirates, how they go about doing that contract within the law of this country remains to be seen. Perhaps SIAEC are playing the game as they would in the Phillipines or Vietnam without realizing we're not a 3rd world country and have standards to live up to ?

[Gas Bags]

Reading this thread it appears that AMSA is owned by SIAEC and offers lower T's and C's than Emirates did.

Emirates have given the ground handling contract to AMSA, and are closing their Australian bases (or at least some of them). The EK staff affected have been offered positions in Dubai.

If the EK staff do not wish to relocate to the ME have they been offered redundancy instead?

AMSA are importing SIAEC staff based out of Singapore to service the contract with EK.

Have AMSA advertised in Australia for staff to service the EK contract? (If they have, AMSA T's and C's must be terrible if no-one local is interested in them).

I agree with Seldomfixit, a contribution by the ALAEA Fed Sec would be great as he would have a much clearer understanding of the situation, assuming the guys at EK are members of his.

GB

[Capt Roo]

AMSA's T&Cs are about 30% less than what the guys got earlier. So most of them will bite the bullet and probably relocate to the sandpit.

From a mate who has mates who work for EK - definitley true!

[727ace]

Melbourne EK engineering is next to go:eek:

[Oakape]

The engineer I spoke to in Sydney said that the Dubai job offer came with only 1/4 of the pay he was currently on.

If that is accurate, I don't see too many relocating. Particularly when you factor in the cost of the move & the cost of living in Dubai.

[empire4]

whilst I feel very sorry for the guys losing their jobs, we all know the pay that a LAE gets paid with types in UAE. I find it hard to believe that it would be 1/4 the pay. The only thing that comes to mind is that these 'engineers' aren't licenced but are considered technicians by EK. In any case, i hope they get another job. We need to actively stop companies such as AMSA erroding the conditions for aussie engineers. it is terrible to see this happen.

[another superlame]

I believe AMSA has already stuffed up EKs 777 turn arounds. Great decision by EK management. Can't wait to see EK falter when they give the whole box and dice to the cheapest bidder.

Sometimes you just need to pay for quality. I don't know AMSA is able to deliver that with a crew of low paid low moraled staff working with no back up or equipment, let alone consummables.

Now that most of the ex Qf staff have left AMSA they will have to start paying for those little extras.

[Tom Sawyer]

It appears that AMSA may have got the TG contract as well.....3 flights a day, 7 days a week. That one or possibly two A340 LAMEs they have got is going to be busy................or maybe there is a charter flight on it's way from SIN with more 457's as I haven't seen anything advertised in the usual places.
Think most of the EK guys are getting themselves sorted as well.
As for the B777 spoiler fault that caused the 3.5 hour delay (20min fix if you know what your doing)......get what ya pay for.

[opalops]

Does the ALAEA know about the importing of Engineers from SIN on these special Visa"s

[tech-line]

These type of operations will only succeed if people accept the poor terms and conditions they offer. It can't be cheap on AMSA to keep importing people form else where?
How many locals do they have working for them?
I had an interview a few years back with them and I couldn't help but smile at them at the package that they offered!!!:p
At the time your local GA operator was paying more!
Why would I give up a good life style and pay and excellent employer to come and work for you was my question?
If as engineers we keep taking it then like our friendly pilots we too will see our T&C going down the creek and us saying years ago we had...........
I have worked far too hard and sacraficed so much I am one who will not accept how these "contracting" companies want to treat us.
I feel very sorry for the EK guys I hope they find work soon.

[Ngineer]

I am quite sure there will be plenty of job opportunities for holders of 457 visa's here. It's just a shame to see so many Australian job opportunities going to these people because companies do not want to invest in training/employment, and using the excuse that there is a lack of suitably qualified personnel.:ugh:
It has been happening in Australia for a while now, even in QF through outsourcing.
Best of luck to the Emirates guys who are going through a pretty stressfull period.

[SeldomFixit]

Ok - the question has been asked at least 3 times now.
Is the ALAEA Fed Sec onto this or keeping powder dry ?
This 457 b/s needs to stop:mad:

[empire4]

tech line,

The majority of AMSA workers are here to get PR before they piss off back to asia to get more dollars. They do not care that they are paid $80K whilst they wait for it to happen. OK, some are there because it keeps there family from having to relocate. Now, because AMSA is unable to find any LAMES with 777 or 380 they bring in the fresh sheep from singa's.

We need to hammer this message through to the ALAEA and the pollies. 457's are rotting our careers and erroding everything that is australian in aviation.

stop the rot

[tech-line]

So the pay hasn't improved since i did my little chat!!
How do they expect people to live in Sydney or any where in OZ for that kind of money???:ugh:
The likes of VB and QF would be sitting there going well if they can get blokes to work for that then why are we paying this and giving them other perks?
Just because there are a more pilots that want to get a foot up and get into the pointy end of a jet (sure beats a busted up C210) doesn't mean we as engineers are the same.
Plus its not the same you can't come from GA and get a license/rating on a wide body or narrow one for that, it takes time it takes alot to get to really know what you are doing.

[another superlame]

What is the latest with EK Sydney now? Has it finally been handed over to AMSA?
Have all the EK engineers found work, or have they been sucked into AMSA?

[Bellcrank 74]

I believe there are a couple of AME's that went over to AMSA the rest have ended up at JQ.. A couple of the licenced guys are heading to Dubai.. have heard though one guy was lucky to get a start with VS in Sydney.
Getting wind of a rumour though from several sources that Emirates may be a short lived exercise with AMSA :oh:

[chimpstar]

LAMES on tourist visas finally got caught up with, Singaporeans sent home and now the AMSA Manager is in SYD doing transits, there are some good lads in SYD (a few ex QF EK.....and 2 kiwis) that are now run off their feet due to the ensuing chaos. My heart goes out to those EK boys i hope it all works out for you.

[another superlame]

Well that is good news Chimp. About time this low life operator was dealt with.

[mightyauster]

The big problem is that AMSA hides behind the sick joke that passes as the General Aviation Award (http://www.fwa.gov.au/consolidated_awards/AP/AP765552/asframe.html). It's legal and AMSA can claim that they pay "above award" rates. :yuk:The ALAEA should HANG ITS HEAD IN SHAME.:mad:
The ALAEA, as I see it, is only interested in the QANTAS engineers and have basically ignored the GA community for years. It astounds me that I have to pay more to have a piece of crap car serviced than what it costs to have a GA aircraft and even what some international airlines are willing to pay to have their multi million dollar aircraft attended to. This race to the bottom has to stop! And CASA wonders why the average age of an LAME is nudging 50...