Cars aren't necessary in Germany...

[Whenurhappy]

I was overjoyed a couple of months ago to be posted to Germany, and to a particularly nice part of it. Over the course of the last month we have been doing all the admin (some of which seems pointless and out-of-date) - BFG stuff from the Cold War methinks - and I applied for a Personally Aranged Passage - ie to take my car and family on what is a very, very long drive, especially for the young ones, from Scotland.

Imagine my surprise to be told 'We don't pay mileage for cars - you don't need them in Germany'. Whaaaat? 'You are to go on the Trooper and go by train to your final destination, and you will all need 'fitness to Fly' certificates' Whaaaaaaaat????? 'We will not pay mileage if you take your car.' When I enquired further about this, I was told that my LOA will cover it (the LOA that is halved the moment you step away from your place of work, you mean!).

Final, and I have had it confirmed. A colleague currently serving in southern Italy is also posted to Germany and told the same - 'no costs shall be entered into.' He is in the dilemma tht his family are in UK to join him and the MOD was not going to pay to move their stuff, even though he was in Italy for 6 months.


Ok, ok I hear you cry - 'could be worse, you could be in BSN, KAF, KAIA' Yeah, true, but not with family (anyway I've been there). The point is that there seems to be a determined effort to reduce the level of support for families when posted abroad, something along the lines of 'consider yourself lucky...'.

Hummpf. Zwei Bratte und anderes bier bitte!

[Tankertrashnav]

Stop bitching- once you're there you'll be getting your monthly allowance of petrol at twopence halfpenny a gallon, or whatever it is. You'll soon make up the cost of your drive from Scotland.

[Geehovah]

You've hit the nail on the head. The get you there package is average; the get you home package is even worse. The good news is once you're there - Germany, US or wherever - life becomes a lot more acceptable and you'll have a ball. Sadly we're still in the old days of "it's a good deal just get over the hassle". I'm afraid it's a case of spend your savings and enjoy the tour. FWIW, in the US, I reckon it cost me £3k to move which came from my own cash. I then lived $ for £ (the good deal) and it cost me £5k to come home. Simplistic because some of the costs ( and like you I'm confused as to why bringing my cars home is not a public expense) are not attributable to public funds but they still fell at the same time when I returned home. Add to that 3 years of recovering my home after a rental and so on..........

And you'll never get any sympathy from UK-bound types who will find reasons why its easier not to move.

And to prempt the "you're lucky not to be on Operations" argument, I did my many op detachments over the years. This was a family tour overseas.

[sprocky_ger]

Whenurhappy
Zwei Bratte und anderes bier bitte!

Don't know what you mean with 'Bratte'. A guess: 'Bratwurst'? And you ordered a 'differerent' instead of 'another' beer. :p

Zwei Bratwürste und noch ein Bier für Whenurhappy, bitte! :ok:

[BEagle]

Bier her, Bier her, oder ich fall um, juchhe!
Bier her, Bier her, oder ich fall um!
Soll das Bier im Keller liegen
Und ich hier die Ohnmacht kriegen?
Bier her, Bier her, oder ich fall um!

Auch zwei Bratwürste mit Senf, bitte! Und Pommes mit Mayo. Sofort!!

[Twon]

I'm now on my third consecutive overseas tour and I've found them same issues with each subsequent move; the packages are getting smaller and smaller with more costs falling to the family budget.

I'm prepared to accept that as the lifestyle is worth it but that shouldn't have to be the case. I suspect, from conversations with deskies and colleagues that the only reason I have managed to get these tours is that no-one else wants them. Whether that is down to the personal costs, I am not sure but it may be a significant factor.

Usual caveat inserted about also deploying on ops etc etc, in case anyone starts slinging the poo. Banter welcome though.

Twon

[charliegolf]

Nein nein nein, OHNE Mayo bitte. Yuck!

CG

[bbsirdar]

Not totally sure your facts are right. You can claim theoretical motor mileage from residence to Birmingham Airport (nearest Trooping Airport to Scotland) and Motor mileage Paderborn/Hannover to destination. A tasty claim that should cover the ferry costs. I recommend the DFDS Newcastle Amsterdam crossing to keep the driving down. Amsterdam/Imjuden to BFG Northern areas is less than 4 hours. Pay a bit extra and go for a upgraded cabin and start your tour in Germany in style. Do not rely on UK HR for advice on postings to Germany; they have lost the knowledge base for this type of move. Do speak to your new Army HR gurus in Germany who are equally useless but do have experience of UK BFG moves. You can expect to claim for a couple of nights in a Hotel whilst you wait for your furniture to arrive. You are also entitled to 1x GYH(O) journey per year. MOD flight allowance of up to £195 per pax + mileage from residence to nearest airport and airport to destination UK. £800 for a fanily of 4, applicable against ferry costs also

Things aren't all bad

Enjoy

[ShyTorque]

In my day, on posting to Germany it was a case of the RAF saying "You'll have to drive to Luton Airport to catch the trooper and sell your car once you get there".

I decided to drive to Gutersloh instead, saving them the air fare. To reward me for that, they took away half a cubic metre of my removals allowance because I could take that much in my car.

When the RAF wrote to me, some years later, because they wanted me back as a High Readiness Reserve pilot, they offered to pay (only) my motor mileage from the airport to Odiham. It would have cost me £1200 round trip for my air ticket each time I flew back to UK! :D

[NutLoose]

I remember many many moons ago posted back from Bruggen and as the trooper left Wildenrath the day after my return posting (no car), they came up with the bright Idea that I would travel to HAMBURG with all my bags courtesy of German Rail and bus services to catch a flight back to Luton from there........:* it was almost less distance to my next posting in the UK than it was to Hamburg....

needless to say that plan fell flat when I was a bad lad on the last night and eventually I came back via Wildenrath and the RAF coach service between the two stations. :p

[Strobin Purple]

You were lucky. When I were stationed in Germany, we lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt........next!

[Melchett01]

Paper bag? Stale bread? You had it easy!

In all seriousness, I think this is just symptomatic of the shoddy way in which the MOD treats people. I can't really comment on the benefits of a tour in Germany, but it would seem that if you are being moved around at the exingencies of the Service, then it is their responsibility to ensure that you are not out of pocket in doing so. Note - not in profit, just not out of pocket. Or that is how many decent employers would see it.

My other half is an ex-Army now senior manager in a FTSE 100 company in Town. She is amazed at how badly the MOD is seen to treat its personnel. If her firm - admittedly a fairly progressive one that is financially doing well - tried to post people overseas and then left them out of pocket, they would be told where to go and people would leave.

Yes things are still looking iffy on the financial front, but with its policies the MOD is doing nothing but storing up problems for when the economy picks up. If you want to keep high calibre people, you have to be competitive, and with policies like this I just don't see that being the case. And at the moment, it is only the high calibre personnel that is keeping the MOD afloat. I just can't see how the MOD can possibly be competitive in future labour markets.

[sprocky_ger]

CG
Sure Mayo. Do you eat them with Ketchup? That's nasty. :yuk: Potatoes (yes, french fries or chips are made of them) and tomatoes (thats what the ketchup comes from) have nothing to do on a tongue at the same time :p

In my active time (German Navy, 2nd Naval Air Wing) we got just some money to drive to our new post. It did not cover the real costs. Want to go home? Yeah, hop in your car and use the salary we pay to refuel. It may be different in case you are posted in a different country. But I guess the longest I experienced (4 weeks) was not long enough to receive any payments for traveling. I had to get my backpack ready and to bring it to the loadmaster. Move my a$$ into the wonderful oldtimer aircraft (B707 or C-160) and let the crew bring me to the destination. I knew some guys that wanted to go buy bike (we were in summer time at Decimomannu, Sardenia, Italy). But this was on their own expences and the days they rode they were not on duty.

[E-Spy]

Tax free fuel, whilst great, actually just offsets the initial cost of BFG'ing and legalising your car - headlights, winter tyres, paperwork nightmares, BFG ticktest (failed with 39/40, passed with 36/40 :ugh:) etc.

I don't think anyone moans about the lifestyle once they are here; the initial move could be made easier though.

[Whenurhappy]

BBSirdar - Casework was submitted to SPVA to approve movement by road after I exhausted my options with my current support unit and the unit that will support me from Germany; this was not approved. Fltights for family and I will suck up going by road. There are further problems with claim the full amount of Disturbance Allowance etc etc.

I have estimated it will cost us GBP 4000 to move to an ISODET in Germany and won't have the 'benefits' of living on a Garrison or Base. Although we are looking forward to living there, the adminstration associated with the move is disjointed, disfunctional and in many cases irrelevant, placing a huge amount of stress on the family.

Why does it have to be so tortuous? I have served accompanied abroad before and in spite of moving from a Middle East location to Europe, I don't recall the admin being so appalling (apart from the usual 'Sorry Mrs WP, your husband will need to sign this.' 'But he's in the Middle East...' Additionally, every day there seems to be another piece of paper emerging requesting 'authority to...' keep pets, operate a motor vehicle, send children to local schools...' There is no one comprehensive guide and various 'Living in Germany' documents are either out of date or helpfully list military numbers (I am not on a military establishment and don't have access to JPA). And I can't take my sword. Who won the bl**dy war?

I can now understand why people turn down overseas posts!

[NutLoose]

have served accompanied abroad before and in spite of moving from a Middle East location to Europe, I don't recall the admin being so appalling (apart from the usual 'Sorry Mrs WP, your husband will need to sign this.' 'But he's in the Middle East...'

Blimey, surely she would just sign it herself......

I never cleared a station in my time properly, did the main ones, SHQ, Medical, Stores Etc, then just signed the rest with a various amount of made up names and different coloured pens........... so even after all these years out I am probably still on the books so to speak of several units :p

Oddly enough nothing went astray

[cornish-stormrider]

hah, thats nothing. when Benson heard I was PVR'ing they queued up to see me, insult me and sign the chitty. maybe it was the big bottle of Malt I was emptying.

[Roadster280]

Could it be something to do with the nature of the posting?

Does the posting come under the SOFA? Say an exchange posting. Would someone on exchange (for example) qualify for the tax exemptions that SOFA grants? Or some isolated NATO or US post, would you get NATO or UK or US conditions?

This might have something to do with it rather than just a 'regular" posting to Der Vaterland.

[Bertie Thruster]

I finished my last BAOR tour at Hildesheim. On my last day in Germany (and my last working day in the Army) I was given a Gazelle, the F700 and a carnet (fuel) card and told to deliver the helicopter to Netheravon.

[mil69]

Great location to raise your young family. You have one of the few remaining opportunities and the chance of a life time to explore Europe. Some of the posts before offer great tips. Read the books before you go, don’t leave it to the admin types you will be surprised what you can claim. Enjoy the moment; I had 18 years of them!!:D

[sprocky_ger]

Bertie
"I finished my last BAOR tour at Hildesheim."

Nice place to stay. ;) I spend about 20 years (1989-2009) in and near Hildesheim before we moved to the place my wife origins from.

[Whenurhappy]

Nope, this is an 'ordinary' tour to a NATO post, albeit to an isolated location. Don't get me wrong - we are really, really looking forward to it, but I am constantly amazed by the absolutely appalling support that is now given on posting and the clear financial 'savings' that are being made (to the public purse).

Colleagues similarly posted elsewhere in Europe anre suffering the same - one is driving the length of Europe to take up a post in Norway, and gets about 7/6 to pay for the trip. He has waited (and waited) for 'approval' to organise his own passage, however the approval has taken so long, ferry crossings have trebled in price!

WP