The perpetual 'Am I too old?' thread - 2010

[Lightheart]

I'm 40. Have no family/children (yet.) or mortgage (had one) to concern myself with.

At 37 I started my flight training. When I went for my Class 1 medical the Spanish psychologist asked me "What the hell are you doing becoming a pilot at your age?"

I asked him who he was to tell me what I could or couldn't do. He didn't reply.

Got my FAA and JAA licences. Was away from my partner for 1.5 years and had to move back with my parents for a year. But I finally got there.

Flown commercially in USA/Carib (yes, paid to do a First Officer Programme.) So what! You do what you gotta do to get on in life. It was a strategy to overcome the age aspect. It worked. After that I made a vow never to pay for training again. And I haven't.

On returning to Europe was offered a job in the UK before even had my licence in my hand.

Left that job to return to Spain (for personal reasons). A market where aviation is not strong. "Don't do it!" people in Spain with more hours than me said.

If you're on a desert island, you have a choice. Survive or not. It is your choice. You decide what you want to manifest in your life.

So on arriving back in Spain I boarded planes, trains, cars, got on my bike and visited all aviation companies I thought I could get into. I got two job offers in 6 weeks!

Now I currently have two types current on my licence. I didn't pay for the rating either!

I'm living in a great part of the word, even though I'm in rented accommodation and I'm earning a third of what I used to earn. But hey, I know that as soon as I get to 1500 hours a lot more doors will open. My life has had many changes.

If you don't like change, don't take the plunge. But if you're like me, you now that in life change is inevitable. You want to get there no matter what the nay sayers say. You have to be FOCUSED, DISCIPLINED and SEE yourself there.

There's only so much anaylsis you can do. The fear part is not knowing how things will turn out. That's normal. But if you have faith, are confident in yourself and know how to listen to that voice in your soul, you'll know what to do.

Don't give away your power. Hope this has been of help.

[Lightheart]

I'm 40. Have no family/children (yet.) or mortgage (had one) to concern myself with.

At 37 I started my flight training. When I went for my Class 1 medical the Spanish psychologist asked me "What the hell are you doing becoming a pilot at your age?"

I asked him who he was to tell me what I could or couldn't do. He didn't reply.

Got my FAA and JAA licences. Was away from my partner for 1.5 years and had to move back with my parents for a year. But I finally got there.

Flown commercially in USA/Carib (yes, paid to do a First Officer Programme.) So what! You do what you gotta do to get on in life. It was a strategy to overcome the age aspect. It worked. After that I made a vow never to pay for training again. And I haven't.

On returning to Europe was offered a job in the UK before even had my licence in my hand.

Left that job to return to Spain (for personal reasons). A market where aviation is not strong. "Don't do it!" people in Spain with more hours than me said.

If you're on a desert island, you have a choice. Survive or not. It is your choice. You decide what you want to manifest in your life.

So on arriving back in Spain I boarded planes, trains, cars, got on my bike and visited all aviation companies I thought I could get into. I got two job offers in 6 weeks!

Now I currently have two types current on my licence. I didn't pay for the rating either!

I'm living in a great part of the word, even though I'm in rented accommodation and I'm earning a third of what I used to earn. But hey, I know that as soon as I get to 1500 hours a lot more doors will open. My life has had many changes.

If you don't like change, don't take the plunge. But if you're like me, you now that in life change is inevitable. You want to get there no matter what the nay sayers say. You have to be FOCUSED, DISCIPLINED and SEE yourself there.

There's only so much anaylsis you can do. The fear part is not knowing how things will turn out. That's normal. But if you have faith, are confident in yourself and know how to listen to that voice in your soul, you'll know what to do.

Don't give away your power. Hope this has been of help.

[boogie-nicey]

Good one Lightheart I am happy to read about your past experiences and pleased to see that you're getting there, well done. However was there really any need to give that poor medical officer a talking to like that ...? He might just have been inquistive or a bit of a tongue and cheek remark perhaps.

Anyway you have proved that with a though-through gameplan and discipline you can succeed I am happy to see it works.

Good luck to all ....

[Brachetta]

Hi folks, as an introduction, I tell you all my thing.
I’ve been PPL for 17 years but for different reasons I left the activity years back pursuing other career and interests.
After long time of working on different fields I found out that what I was doing wasn’t satisfactory for me, so the flight bug returned and stayed this time.
See, I’m 37 now, I will convert now my PPL to UAE compliance, will do immediately my instruments, multi, CPL and hopefully will get a job doing what we all here like.
Some say I’m mad, especially my girlfriend who only thinks of the long trips and not having me around for days…some other encourage me (less people, honestly) but hey, I don’t tell anybody when or what to do with their dreams, do I?
At the end of the day, I don’t see any better way of making a living than being what you like, and I just don’t want to say “if only” one day in the future.
So wish me luck if you will and see you around, air or land…
You guys take care.

[weltweites]

@Lightheart

Great info !!!
Im now at that age and trying to find the proper way how to achieve the goal, the only license i have at the moment is a gyro-license and i want to achieve much more... but the way to take is sometimes difficult to go.
I have a great job and everything is beeing paid.... am singel and free and also no credits or whatsoever .... and still im trying to go a way with the less riscy one.

I want to go for a PPL(JAA) in the US, hopefully later next year the "extras" like multi and instruments ... then if im still goin on ... ill do cpl/atpl here in europ.

Hope my message broughts some lights to other people too with some crazy thoughts like i have ;-) ;-)

To mention, my psychologist at the medical said ... go for it ;-) ;-) !!!
Heres also the reason why .......

i dont want to ask myself the time im retiring ... why didnt i try it ??!!!!!

[CJ2]

An acquaintance of mine asked my advice some time ago. He's 34 now and has planned to go for CPL next autumn. He asked if I think it is too late to start from zero at that age. Without giving second thought about it I told him to go for it if it is that he really wants. Anyone started at this age? Was it good or bad advice? :confused:

[Flying Squid]

Two guys on my groundschool were both approaching 40 so in short no it's not too old......risky perhaps but te level of risk very much depends on their personal circumstances.

[CJ2]

Well, he is owner of a successful business. So he has no financial issues if getting a job takes time. Told me that this is the thing he always wanted to do and will do it more for himself than making living out of it.

[Flying Squid]

Well if he is in the situation where money isnt an issue and he's not worried about making a career out of it in the next couple of years then I would say GO FOR IT!!!!! This is a great time to get some big discounts on training, FTO's are all fighting for survival so many will be open to some serious haggling!!!!

Good luck!

[castrohe]

I think this forum is great.

I am 32 years old and married.

I was looking for answers to my questions:

- Am I to old to become a pilot?
- I'm against the opinions of my parents and friends. Should I go on?

Many people gives their personal opinions and it is GOOD to hear others opinion. Sometimes shows others points of views.

In the end what's matter it's what we are feeling.

I have a though:

We are not lucky, we made our lucky". What I mean is, that we have to search the way to survive is this world and above of all enjoy it. We can stand for good days to go out, do we?

My wife supports me, she add the same fear as I.
Will I have a job when I finish the course?

We never now if we don't try.

We were thinking in buy a house, have kids, but I am not happy with my life, so we when I talk to my wife about this all of this plans have wait for the moment.
I do investigation in an Spanish University, but enough of this...

I need to realize my child dream. Become a pilot.

Thanks to all.

[merlinn]

Slight topic change here, but I notice some of the first threads were back in 2002! Would love to here from anyone that made it and stuck to their guns:ok:

[castrohe]

I would like to know what happen to Doc. There is a lot of great thread, this can toke me days to read all of them.

By this moment we could have a great point of view of Doc.

I am in a similiar situation right now, so it's very important to me to know how the doc story ends.

[Old Nick]

I've recently been made redundant from another professional career at the grand old age of 40.

I have a PPL, love flying, and looking to the positive am thinking of whether this is the kick up the backside I needed to get out of the 9-5 rut, do something different and do something I enjoy while getting paid for it: flying for a career.

I know that the recruitment market is dire at the moment, but the plan is that by the time I finish an integrated course, the economy will be sprouting some green shoots and the aviation industry, given its cyclicality, should be one of the first out of the blocks.

My only question is: at 40 am I too old to embark on this career change? Realistically, a mature novice FO coming out of a school has how much chance of getting a job (in normal times, not right now)? I've spoken to a few HR people at airlines and for good equal opportunities reasons none have said 'you're too old', but out there on the coal face - what are the real-world experiences of any other 40+ old farts who've tried this?

Thanks in advance.

[Grass strip basher]

Read stickies at top of the wanabees forum.
I would say you are pushing it given the current economic environment.
But if you are wealthy enough to not miss the odd £100k then why not have a crack?

[Reluctant737]

Young Nick,

Welcome, and well done on considering your situation. The answer to your question is no, you are not too old - I personally know of a lady aged 52 who began training a couple of years ago (aged 50) who is now FOing with EZY.

Of course I am sure there will be others who will read into this a lot more than I can, and may offer some more helpful advice.

But I've heard many successful stories, and I doubt the airlines will mind too much until you reach the grand old age of 50! Remember, this is a personal decision and nobody has the right to tell you you're too old, or don't have the ability to achieve it. You'll only end up having many sleepless nights when you're 80 - what if?

And personally, despite being only 20, I prefer flying with the older chaps :ok:

All the best and good luck,

Ad

[Old Nick]

Grass Strip Basher: "Read Stickies".

Yup - got it - thanks - and sorry for duplicating q's.

[Bealzebub]

And personally, despite being only 20, I prefer flying with the older chaps

A preference presumably borne out of the fact that there aren't many Captains under 20? :)

[Reluctant737]

Bealzebub,

Point taken :ok: In all seriousness, I much prefer flying with fellows of the 40+ age bracket, but then again, I've always got on better with people much older than myself!

Girls, on the other hand :E

[Adios]

If you need a kick up the back side at age 40 to "push" you into an aviation career, then perhaps you don't have the level of passion required. Flight training is not the most expensive way to have a midlife crisis, but it's darn close!

If this isn't a midlife crisis for you, then you've got a chance of succeeding. It will be tough, so be sure why you're really doing it before you jump in.

[ewsd02]

The most important thing is to be happy, so if you want to fly for a living, best just do it. As far as I am aware, you will still be in the age bracket for turbo prop airlines. They prefer more mature people as there is less chance of them bogging off to a jet airline as soon as they get the experience! Commercial instruction is another good career path.

The benefit you have over the 21 year old daddy funded/massive loan guy out of an intergrated course is that you have other skills to fall back on if you can't get a flying job straight away.

[5150]

As far as I am aware, you will still be in the age bracket for turbo prop airlines

You're still in the 'age bracket' for most airline jobs that may appear on your lists of wants/desires.

You just need to make allowances for the fact that you'll be joining a considerable 'heap' of licence holders after your training, in an industry that is making cuts on a large scale - in addition there are already many rated pilot's with many hours of experience on type who have lost, or will lose their jobs in the coming months, your claim to be first out of the blocks is somewhat ambitious !

I don't see any reason that at 40+, you're not as attractive, if not MORE attractive to an employer than someone half your age . . . You've still got 25 years work ahead of you, so I say go for it . . .

[BigNumber]

Being 40+ is not a disadvantage, infact it may well be an advantage!

In the age of SSTR, pay for Line Training etc, you are just as welcome in the 'airline' market as anyone else. More so.

Outside of the airlines there are a great many flying positions that would value your age and experience. My Biz Jet owner actually prefers guy's with your profile. We don't pay for our type ratings!!!!!

Follow your dreams - if you want it, go and get it!

[Sciolistes]

I can contribute with direct experience. I was 40 with 300 hrs when I was offered a 737 position after passing selection.

I don't think there any advantages to being older. It is difficult for me to suggest that there were significant disadvantages. I did fail one interview in vague circumstances. I think most people who have failed interviews with this business' practice of not providing feedback would feel the same.

Regardless, I definitely got the impression that during the assessment and selection processes that I passed there was no bias one way or the other. I was reliably informed by those organisations of a couple of airlines that outright would not consider me due to my age.

[ea340]

A good friend of mine started flying at 42 . Retired from IT started with a Flight Exc company at 50 as an F/O on a Turbo prop and is loving every minute of it.

[BigNumber]

MM,

It is a private owner, private operation held within the fabric of a much larger business.

Sorry to be so vague, but hope this contributes to the scope of the thread.

[Holryn]

I started flying when I was 32. I gained my CPL/MEIR back in 2005 and started applying for all sorts of jobs. I took a serious pay reduction to get more involved in an aviation career - money has never been motivating factor for me (and no, I don't have much of it either).

I only managed to get one assessment and sim check during the past three or so years. Last year I decided that the only way I was to keep going was to instruct so completed my Instructors course and have been instructing part-time ever since.

I turn 40 :( later this year and despite the fact that it has been financially very tough (and that's without the recession), for both me and my family, I have enjoyed every second along the way.

I'm still looking for that first job, instructing aside, and will continue to do so.

Go into it with your eyes open - I didn't expect a job offer to fall into my lap - and enjoy!! :ok:

H

[chrfri]

I was 40 when I started the ATPL-theory, took the last step, mcc, at 42. At 45 I got my first job, F/O on a small jet, have been there for 2,5 years now.

...and I am still married...:)

[alkatifa]

I reckon I'm just another 31 year old bloke thinking bout a serious career and lifestyle change. The flying bug is getting on me now, I just don't know where to start....

I love flying so much that I was even considering a cabin crew job, but I really picure myself as a comercial pilot. We really do have just one life, might as well just follow our gut!

[wannabe15]

That's right. Similar situation. Should be starting DL ATPL soon at a not so young age of 36.:} Dunno when i will complete, dunno whether there will be a job waiting thereafter... anyway

One life only, make full use of it! cheers

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Unless you are over 50 there is no age issue any more with any airline in the UK.

Those days died some years ago.


WWW

[Rugbyears]

WWW, with the risk of becoming too sentimental, I must say that I retain a great deal of respect for you old chap. In one particular thread you articulate you perception of the aviation industry and its association to the present economic crises/correction, advising all to assess their decision carefully. Yet you maintain the humanity to continue to offer assistance those of us who still choose to continue with this career path way.

Thank you..!:ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well, thanks for noticing. I get slated for being a harbinger of doom - true - but I realise many are too far in to stop and anything I can do to help I will do.

WWW

[SIMEFLY]

I am 42yrs old and looking for a career change to be come an airline pilot. At present i am a police officer but have previously served as cabin crew in the forces then with KLM UK.
I would like advice from anyone in terms of how to progress from PPL to frozen ATPL how much this will set me back???
I feel that its not too late for a career change but also have to think of my family. I am aware that it is a costly process, but in the long run providing i progress successfully will hopefully land!! with position with a major airline.

[quant]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

[BSmuppet]

Callum,

this coming from a guy who didn't read the stickies himself and asked about a Cpl straight after PPL+night

[Vems]

They got you 2 really good links, make yourself a cuppa, get some biscuits and read it ( it takes a while! trust me! :E)

Then, do a research ( internet, local flying schools etc.) Then, if you really can't find something you're looking for, post it here. You'll get a lot of replies, probably.

Good luck.

Vems

[maxdrypower]

S.F check your personal messages

[dartagnan]

i can get you a job on the airbus. never too late. 42 years, IT'S PERFECT...airlines want s you cuz u are mature.

dont forget my cheque of 200'000$ for the cpl/mcc/line trining/ type rating and my %.:E

[nuclear weapon]

For your age I dont think its too late although we do have airlines that have an age limit but dont let that out you off.

[BigNumber]

There are some operations that 'prefer' an older candidate.

This has been discussed extensively in the 'Biz Jets' Forum.

IMO 42 years is not a bad age to start training. Best of Luck to you.

BN

[Crazy Fokker]

Yes I have heard of people training and getting jobs in there forties. I guess it's just a case of pulling out all the stops on the research front etc....dig deep. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

As you said with a family to boot etc, planning etc is going to be more important than for a single 21 yr old with no ties...so just be thorough is my advice.

But it is possible.:ok:

[BigNumber]

Ah yes, but the 'no ties' 21 year old will always be looking for his next move!!!!

The 'OLD?' 42 Year old will possibly give many many years of loyal 'mortgage paying, kids' feeding' service!!

He's an attractive option! ( with a good 20 years of work in the old man yet! ) Again: Some Operations definitely prefer this profile.

Gotta go: I'm off to MRU :)

BN

[davkt]

Well I've just been made redundant from a senior civil service post so am re-evaluating my career options. One of the possibilities I'm considering is retraining as a pilot. Simple question, am I too old to start down that route at 44?
Cheers
David

[KAG]

You will retire before the oil peak, just perfect ;)

[neckache]

Evening Davkt

Im not that clued up on the ATPL side of things, i suppose it depends on what route you want to go down.

You could go the whole hog and put a large financial and time investment into a heavy commercial career, maybe some more experianced posters may point you in the right direction for that advice.

I know a few people who came out of long service jobs at 40-50 and went into aviation, two flight instructors at our club for example.

I sometimes think that at 29, i'm too old to be running down the commercial route, especially when you see these young lads/lasses driving the big stuff!!!:bored:

If you fancy it, go for it!:ok:

[Torque Tonight]

I have to say that I can't believe anyone is looking at commercial aviation at the moment and thinking that it looks like a good move. If you have the resources to take a punt and it's what you want to do, go for it, but I wouldn't fancy your chances. A good mate of mine, of a similar age to you, completed his CPL/IR/MCC with a creditable performance about a year ago. He has not had a single interview, let alone a job offer, and has decided to cut his losses, not renew his IR, and return to his previous job.

Unfortunately, many commercial operators favour youth in ab initio pilots, and even for those with age on their side, job prospects are dire. Between now and your mandatory retirement age you will probably make more money as a binman than a pilot. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[BigNumber]

Not at all David; IMO age has become rather less significant in recent times.. Infact, your age might even find favour with some employers. More, given your senior civil service experience and the 'golf bag' of skill that brings to the interview.

Good luck.

BN

[smith]

Can't see you landing a job until you are at least 50 and you may be too old by then.

[amostcivilpilot]

At 44 I am now starting to realise that I am already half way through my career!!!

However, would I start at this age?

I would say that I would, but subject to what I wanted to get out of it.

I have zero interest in flying the heavy metal. I am at heart a GA pilot and if I was in your position and was passionate about wanting a flying career then I would suggest a GA career is the way to go. It is possible to get into the big jets at this age but the reality is that the opportunities are slim.

Unfortunately too many people still see those of us who are over 30 as being too old to do somethng else with ourselves. I fully believe that if you really want something and are 110% committed to it then you should go for it.

However, at 44 after a previous career to Senior Level you have been made redundant and are looking for a new career path.

Have you asked yourself why you have waited so long to become a professional pilot?
Do you have any flying experience?
Do you have the support of your family?
Can you really afford to use your savings to spend 2 -3 years getting qualified and finding a suitable job?
Are you prepared to travel?
What do you want to fly, aeroplanes or helicopters?
Would your temperament allow you to go back to the bottom after being so close to the top?
Could you take instruction from a young 20 something instructor?
Wold you take the instructor route?
Could you instruct?

And very importantly. would flying allow you to plan a future where in effect you would only have around 15 years in the career to work with as a professional under present European rules?

Etc, etc......................

Flying is great fun . To some it is a vocation, something that you live and breathe and cannot do without. It is to me and to many that I know.

But I also know many others who grew up wanting to be pilots, got into the system and now find it is not for them and in certain cases simply do not enjoy it anymore, but need to stick with it because it is all they know or are too scared to take the jump and find something else to do.

I had one friend like this. He hated flying commercially, was still a permanent FO when I last heard about him and would have been much happier person and pilot if he had stuck to his original career path and remained a PPL.

I personally have gotten everything and more that I have wanted from my career. I have been in the military as aircrew, I have been an instructor, I am qualified to fly rotary and fixed wing, I have managed to work in other areas of aviation such as ATC, avionics, operations, etc. Everything I have done was based on the goal of achieving something new and developing an all round portfolio and it has gotten me into what I consider the best job any pilot could ask for. But I started at 16, married in my 30's so my single days were filled with flying and those other traditionally associated sports involving members of the flying community but not alway airborne :rolleyes:

Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.

:ok:

[2098]

I know of 3 chaps about your age that just got 'proper' flying jobs on biz jets. If you do take the plunge just make sure you have accounted for the worst case scenario...never getting a flying job.

Go modular :)

[Desk-pilot]

I think your answer depends upon where you see the industry in 2 years when you will be looking for a job and how much of a fallback plan you have if you don't get a flying job.

The majority of the industry are slightly ageist with a few exceptions - I know Flybe, BA and Jet 2 have all taken low hours entry approaching 40 and Flybe I know really don't care how old you are, fully recognising life experience can be a great asset on the flight-deck (I joined low hours at 38)

However I do believe that I only got the interview as an older chap because I went integrated and was recommended by OATS at a time when the airlines were approaching the flying schools wanting pilots. I do believe that if you are older and would prefer to go for airlines rather than spending years working your way up from instructing (which is fine if you're 22 but not so great if you're 40 with kids and a mortgage) then the extra £10k by going integrated made little different to the loan repayments and a world of difference in helping me secure employment.

It's just my experience,

Desk-pilot

[Clintonb]

So im a bit confused whether age matters in this industry. im 23 going onto 24 and been thinking for the past year about doing flight training from ppl all the way up to ATPL.. i tried to get into a school in march this year but missed the pass mark by 1 point to get accepted, so i been searching around for other schools US,Europe,Australia,South pacific, South Africa etc but i ask myself do i need to do it now?

theres still so much of the world i want to see and do, do i really want to sit down and do 2 years of intense studying and training right now and then try work, when i can possible do it later on in my life? As i said ill be 24 in couple months so im not getting any younger and few of my pilot friends tell me i should start straight away with training while i can as i dont have many obligations right now rent, own a car, wife,kids etc

So i was wondering is it ok to hold off flight training for 2 or maybe 4 years and come back into it later in life when im say 28 and then bust out 2 years training?

any insight to this would be much appreciated.

safe flying

[hollingworthp]

Age is a very OLD question (excuse the weak and accidental pun) and has been covered ad infinitum.

Have a look at the sticky thread at the top of this section with READ FIRST BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION in the title for some links to a few of the very numerous previos threads on age.

Ps I was 29 when I started training

[Clintonb]

hey thanks for reply. so what you flying now? im just worried that companies will take the younger guy over older and more knowledgeable.

trust me ive been in that sticky and tried those threads and all i got was this "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" and thats it or i wouldn't be asking this question again.

anyways thanks agin for replying.
safe flying

[KUMOOZ]

Well, there could be mileage in some thread creep in establishing the oldest 'newbie'.

I was 41 when I started pilot training, my training partner was 45. Go see the world and come back when the industry is in a healthier state.

Even better, choose another career. I am afraid the bean counters and fun police have :mad: this one!

Good luck

[redsnail]

In some countries, age is an issue, or perhaps more correctly "age commensurate with experience".

eg, in Australia, starting at 40 would be considered too old to have a viable career where as 25 is better, 20 ideal. (Note, these are generalisations)

You will need a "buffer" in your age, that is, you need to be young enough to weather the financial storms that blow every 7-10 years dumping pilots onto the market. It is therefore a smart move not to be carrying too much debt so you are flexible in where you go and what job you pick up.

Research the countries where you intend to work and find out their normal hiring policy.

Holding off for a couple of years won't hurt so long as you save your money so you can hit it full time. Otherwise, you may as well start sooner and do it part time.

[Halfwayback]

This is a collation of the posts since 2009 and any subsequent thread will be merged here.

Halfwayback

[Miss Behavin]

Hi All,

I've been reading Pprune for a quite a while, never really having the guts to post my questions.

I'm a little excited waiting for the footie to kick off, in a little under an hour so optimistically excited about things,,,so here goes:

In line with this thread, and I too old to re-train as a pilot.

I'm 32, an accountant
wanting to go modular, in order to speed up/down my training in line with industry recovery/downsides
oh, and I'm a girl

you thoughts please?

Thank you

[redsnail]

At 32 for the UK market, you're not too old.
Personally, I would make sure I have finished by 35 though.
Again, this is just my opinion, I don't do recruiting.

Gender is not an issue with your colleagues or employers. You may have minor issues with some of the destinations but I have workarounds for that.

Now, being an accountant? That's your major hurdle. ;)

[Miss Behavin]

Thanks Redsnail,,,I appreciate your comments
Yep, heard all the jokes associated with being one of "them" ;)
Agree with 35 being the target.
Apologies, for sounding a little confused or dim, but what do you mean by maybe having minor issues with some of the destinations?
As for your workarounds, I'm all ears,,,,,,,,,,

[redsnail]

Oh destinations where women aren't an equal citizen. I just tell the FO what we need (consult etc) and let him deal with the person who won't talk to me.

Easier than getting angry.

[Miss Behavin]

Ah ha. Gotcha!
Learnt a few crucial points about you from your last post.
Very inspiring.
Thanks for your words to my original post. I needed to hear them from someone in the business.
Regards
Miss B

[Whirlygig]

Now, being an accountant? That's your major hurdleReddo ... you cruisin' for a bruisin'? :}

Cheers

Whirls