DUxford Flying Legends - A rip Off??

[Winco]

Hi Everyone,

Just wondered if anyone else was as dissapointed as I was at this past weekends Duxford Flying Legends so-called 'Airshow' ??

£32.00 to get in, only half the traders and no more than 2 hours of flying.

I felt pretty ripped off when I left on Sunday frankly and doubt if I will go back if thats the best they can do.

Winco

[JEM60]

Winco. I don't get where you get your 2 hours of flying from..Did your watch stop? The show started both days at 2pm, last aircraft touching down at 5. 30pmcertainly no earlier, and may have been later. That, to me makes 3. 1/2 hours. The show is completely non-stop, with absolutely no breaks, the slickest run airshow in the world, with the best pilots in the world. I cannot understand your problem with it.
This show is Stephen Grey's personal show. Just in case you didn't know, he owns the Fighter Collection, and has spent millions and millions of pounds on his aircraft, to give us the huge priveledge of being able to see them in the air. The show has little to do with the IWM at Duxford, it is his personal show, and goes some way to paying the huge costs of maintaining his collection, for our pleasure.
This show is quite unique in that it is the only show in the world where you can see 8 Spitfires chasing each other, not to mention 5 P.51s etc.
Compared to many shows, here and abroad [believe me, I've been around! ] it is many peoples' both here and abroad, highlight of the airshow year.
I am sorry you didn't appreciate the show, and I suspect you are one of very few who were dissatisfied with it. Lets face it, a Premiership football match is far more money than this!!. You have two choices, basically. Pay the money, or don't get to see these wonderful aircraft flying. Many of my friends commented on what good value it was!!!! John. [Bemused!]

[L4key]

How much money must it cost to keep these aircraft flying?? It's £16.50 normally to get into Duxford anyway I think and the static display is brilliant.

I don't care if Mr Grey is profiteering even - he's one of the few people able to bring us these amazing displays. I'd pay double personally.

I just hope people continue to pay so that in another 65 years we can still watch them.

[treadigraph]

I'm also slightly mystified by this post... If you don't like almost wall to wall piston fighters, then clearly it's not the show for you...

As JEM60 says, eight Spitfires (plus a Seafire) and there would have been six Mustangs if Rob Davies' aircraft hadn't landed at Stapleford with a problem en route.

Three Hawker biplane fighters flying, a first I believe since God knows when(Hind, Nimrod and Demon). And a fourth on the flightline which should join them in the air next year Three Yaks, the Polikarpov I-16, the Mew Gull. The Bearcat, two Sea Furies, Corsair, B-17, three Spads. To name but a few...

It was slightly down on airframe numbers again this year, mostly due to the problems that TFC have had with the CAA, which are fortunately slowly being resolved. And don't forget Stephen Grey has been unable to defray the enormous costs of the fleet with other airshow bookings while this has been going on.

And at the end twenty three fighters in a mass flypast.

Don't know about the traders, there seemed to be as many stalls as normal to me, but then I'm not there to do my shopping, I'm there to see some vintage aeroplanes flying.

I'd say that around three hours is just about the right length - RIAT and other long winded shows bore me now and I don't attend them.

Well done TFC from one very satisfied (and sun-burned) punter. A bargain in my view.

[AndoniP]

RIAT and other long winded shows

hahaha, good grief...

people have their own reasons for going to air shows. some are bored by spitfires, some prefer modern jets

winco - if you want the loud stuff go to RIAT or farnborough instead. tickets are pretty much the same cost and flying goes on for 6 or 7 hours.

[Groundloop]

hahaha, good grief...

AdoniP, you're the one people should be laughing at!

Treadigraph just stated his own personal preference and you respond as if he is an idiot! Abusive posts like that just show you to be a small minded person who cannot see anyone else's viewpoint.

Your post would have been perfectly acceptable if you have left out that very small line - but you didn't.

[PaperTiger]

£32.00 :eek:

Obviously been a while since I attended*, but wow !
I thought Abbotsford was a bit pricey at $30 for a 5-hour display but I take it back now.

And $25 at Oshkosh is obviously the best value on the planet.

* since I paid actually, saw my last show from Grange Road :)

[AndoniP]

responding as if he as an idiot? no, i was expressing my surprise at RIAT being labelled a long-winded airshow, like it would be a chore being there.

nothing abusive about it, try not to exaggerate chap.

we all have our own reasons, likes and dislikes for going to certain airshows. some like a smaller event, classic prop aircraft, short shows. some like the loud stuff, all dayer. it's up to you. no reason for fans of one type of show to criticise the other.

[AirShowJunkie]

Hi There!

I went to Legends on Sunday and thoroughly enjoyed it as usual. I was only slightly dissapointed with the lack of emphasis on the BoB 70th and the Commentary of Bernard Chabbert !

Nevertheless, my personal highlight was the Hawker Biplane three ship! Blew my mind; shame the other Nimrod couldn't make it up but it gave an impression of how the Hendon Pageants might have looked!

I was just wondering what issues Stephen Gray is having with the CAA? I remember last year's total lack of TFC aircraft and felt gutted at the lack of a second Gladiator, Miles Hawk and Grumman 'Cats'.

Cheers

[treadigraph]

Now, now chaps... ;)

Last time I went to RIAT (and it has been a very long time), the flying kicked off at about 10am and finished close to 6pm as I recall - eight hours which by my standards is long winded! By the time I got in some of the stuff I wanted to see had already flown, and I was treated to multiple displays by F-16s, Tornados and the like... The need to get home precluded staying much beyond 4pm and, yes, some of the interesting stuff flew after I had to leave. And the Bear didn't fly at all, possibly because of the Mig 29 collision the day before. Add to this long queues to get in, long queues to get out and, yep, for me it became a chore.

If it floats yer boat, then fine, but the best shows I've been to (the old Tiger Club shows at Redhill, Old Warden, Duxford) are an afternoon's entertainment rather than some sort of aerial marathon. Shoreham is a bit longer but one can always wander across the footbridge and watch some of the show from the boozy comfort of the Red Lion.

Incidentally, does anyone know whether airshow organisers pay for military participation? I've always assumed not, but in these times of budgetary hardship...?

[AirShowJunkie]

I agree that RIAT can get a bit long-winded. Only last year there were 3 F/A-18s in the flying display. (Spanish, Finnish and Swiss) Not really my cup of tea- one would have been enough! The year before we were treated to 3 pilatuses in the display (PC-7,9 and 21 i think) AND the swiss Pilatus team- Less of these duplications!

Cheers

[JEM60]

PAPERTIGER.
To compare Abbotsford to Duxford Flying Legends is not a fair guide re prices or content. Duxford is almost unique in that it's only competitor in scale is the Commemorative Air Force Show in Midland, Texas. I hear from my friends that the content is nowhere near what it used to be. I went only once, and that was to Harlingen in 1983. Outstanding. Oshkosh also is a poor comparison. Whilst huge, and with many Warbirds, it is a sad fact that many of the aircraft in the warbird park do not take part in the 'display'.Last year, and I have been six times, for 8 days at a time, there were, for example, 5 P.40s in the park. None flew in the 'display'. Nineteen P.51s. Only 3 flew in the display IIRC. This applies to many aircraft that come to Oshkosh. It is a huge static park, and whilst mass formations of Harvards and Mentors, and Trojans, make a lot of noise, it is not display flying. Incidentally, there was not 1 B.17 there last year, until the last day. I use inverted commas when referring to the display, because, unlike Duxford, it consists of mainly fly bys, which are repeated several times each day, usually getting less and less aircraft taking part as the week progresses. None of the flying I have seen at Oshkosh gets anywhere near the standard of a Duxford show as regards formation aerobatics, formation changes, variations of axis... I could go on... Last year was the last Oshkosh for me. After four days, I was getting bored. Same old same old as they say.
Let it be clearly understood that LEGENDS is one man's show, and I feel he needs to be congratulated for his efforts, rather than be critisized.
Ed Shipley described Legends as 'The Best Air Show in the World'.
He should know. He flies a P.51 Mustang and an F.86 Sabre in shows all over the US. £32 pound. It was a snip.

[JEM60]

AIRSHOWJUNKIE.
TFC had some [it would be diplomatic of me to say] personality clashes with the CAA, leading to Permits to Fly being withdrawn. some have now been re-issued, hence the Bearcat and the Spitfire taking part. Through talking to various people, I gather that things will now move at a rather faster pace in restoring the status quo that was, though it will still take a little time. Expect things to get better. Lots of paperwork to check though.

[PaperTiger]

JEM, it was not my intent to compare the content of the airshows in question. If flying warbirds are your focus the Duxford is undoubtedly your cup of tea and you are presumably prepared to pay whatever it takes.

I was commenting on the respective costs from the point of view of myself, others and the general public who have a broader interest, shall we say. I might pay $50 for a once-in-a-lifetime show like the Rickenbacker P-51 thrash, but so far I haven't had to. We're probably spoilt over here, money-wise.

[AndoniP]

Only last year there were 3 F/A-18s in the flying display. (Spanish, Finnish and Swiss)

because multiple air forces bring their aircraft to showcase their air power. people who love watching the loud stuff won't get bored of this.

to be honest, if you buy the programme on the day and you analyse the flying display order, that will give you the opportunity to plan when to go and get food / go toilet / walk around the aircraft etc. :ok:

[AirShowJunkie]

JEM60- Thanks for the info! I STILL haven't seen the Shuttleworth and TFC Gladiators flying together which is rather annoying, i hope the CAA pull their finger out!

AndoniP- I'm a warbird man in fairness so that's perhaps why it got a little tedious for me. Looking forward to the Bf109G this year at RIAT though!

Cheers

[treadigraph]

I STILL haven't seen the Shuttleworth and TFC Gladiators flying together

I think very few have - the aeroplane had a few minor tech problems year before last, and has been grounded by the paperwork issue since then. NEXT year...!

Extraordinary really. Twenty five years ago we had one Glad, one Brisfit, one Hawker biplane, one SE-5, one Lysander flying...

Since the the UK has seen three Brisfits flying together, two SE-5s (whatever happend to G-BLXT?), three Lysanders, three Hawkers (with a fourth raring to go), two Gladiators next year hopefully - and there may be a third to come in due course. And several more Hawker biplanes on their way to completion.

[PontiusPilote]

£32 sounds a lot, but when one considers the costs involved it's miniscule. After all, it's a huge privilege just to see these legendary machines all together in one place. The overall effort is huge and I'm happy to support it.
As for the stands - they are fine for the easily bored but I'm just there for the a/c.

If I were to gripe - in the most general of terms, it'd be about other issues which apply equally to many other shows;- Firstly the general lack of suitable seating and handy loos, especially for elderly or disabled visitors. Secondly, the (Damned) PA. There was a time when this was tolerable - just - but it's now got completely out of hand. It's much too loud and simply interminable. The LOUDspeakers are positioned every few feet, so, there really is no escape. I go to see and HEAR the a/c, not to hear the same guff repeated for the umpteenth time. Just how stupid and ill-informed do these folks suppose the punters are....??? If people want the gen, then they can buy a programme - and thus help contribute a bit more money too. A few brief, concise snippets such as changes in time or content.....but do we really need endless statements of the bleedin' obvious..? Definitely not. If I want War & Peace, I'll go to Waterstones thanks. The last time I subjected myself to this aural torture I was driven to envy the freeloaders across the other side of the airfield as at least the a/c would have drowned-out the superfluous babble....! Many others have made this point to me. It's certainly put plenty of people off. I haven't been to Old Warden for a few years but the commentary certainly used to be much more muted there in days gone by.

Duxford is a superb venue and the Flying Legends show, (superfluous diatribe aside), is probably the best piston warbird show in the world. It's the culmination of a herculean effort and deserves the full support of the public. :ok:

[JEM60]

PONTIUS.
I agree with all your points. However, if you go down to the motorway end, you will find that the speakers cease a little bit before the end, and it is quiet there. It is also the best place to view from [Spitfires coming round the corner in the sun etc.,].Bernard Chabbert is an excellent writer, but you are right about his commentary. You then have choice of loos in the Superhangar, and also in the Visitor centre within easy reach..
Best solution, join Friends of Duxford. Free entrance on non- show days any time you want, 25% discount, including Airshow entrance, and goods purchased, your own enclosure and seating for Air Shows, with very superior loos [they even play music at you!], and free tea, biscuits, coffee and soft drinks ALL day free, and the pleasure of having them served by my wife Teresa whilst you are there!!.
The price is fine for what the event is, as described earlier. Disclaimer from me. I have a free pass due to my wife working, BUT I would still pay the full price, even if I hadn't got one!.

[PontiusPilote]

Thanks for that - I'd hate to miss the Fw190 when they have wrung the Med' out of it....

Actually, I've never really taken any notice of who they stick on the P.A. at airshows, because, no matter how interesting or knowledgable they are, it's not what I've just driven or flown several hundred miles to experience. Even if they have super interesting people, I'd rather they just whacked it onto the website as an mp3, that way no one misses it and we get to hear all those lovely aircraft without deafening shouts of (I swear to God I've heard this.....) 'Just listen to those Spitfires..!' ...yep...we were.....:ugh:

[JEM60]

PONTIUS.
Sadly, the ditched 190 is a write-off. I was talking Ms. Jacquard's [owner of the aircraft]] pilot at Duxford, and he confirmed that when they used laser measurements, everything was out of line. It will be restored to static, and has already been sold. [See AEROPLANE for this month]. Another has flown in Europe, and, fingers crossed, it's a possibility that it may come for next year?? Christophe Jacquard's ex-Iraqi Fury has recently flown, and that should be another visitor to Legends.[That will make 3 Sea/Furies]. :ok:

[PontiusPilote]

JEM;- Sad to hear about the '190's demise. I was rather mystified as to why the CAA had such a big issue with the '190N at Duxford, since we are all supposed to be under the EU now with EASA/JAR et al. If the '190N's conform adequately for France and Germany...why not here... That said, I've never been a big CAA-knocker, as I've never personally had any problems with them on the FCL or airworthiness fronts. Famous last words.....:\

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

Apologies for slight Thread drift.

Please dont take offence but I feel I must respond to an observation in your
Post 18 of this thread.
You make reference to.."envy the freeeloaders across the other side of the Airfield"

I agree it may seem "Freeloading", but for the record I have been going Southside near the Airfield boundary for over 20 years.
Along with a small core of keen Photographers who feel as I do.

For one very good reason, best light and position for Photography.

At the risk of being tedious I have downloaded a selection of Photos to illustrate this.

It just so happens that I had submitted earlier in this Forum a selection of Photos from this years Legends show from the Press enclosures on the crowd line. ( This is the first time in years I have gone "Inside")
I managed a good selection but the Light was not very good until quite late in the show.
See my Thread, Duxford Legends 2010 Photo selection, now on page 2 of this Forum.
Chance to compare "Locations"

I know, a good excuse to show some of my Photos.!!!!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0010copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0014copy1.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0069copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0036copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0057copy1.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0134copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0169copy2.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0058copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0270copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0326copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0143copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0081copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0116copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0226copy.jpg


http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt200/phredd10/Duxford%20Southside%20selection/DSC_0246copy.jpg

OPF