Getting Started

[SgtBundy]

Not sure if this should be under Wannabes, but I was looking for more of a local audience.

Any rate, after 10 years in IT I am feeling the urge to return to my original dreams of aviation. I originally aimed for the RAAF but got knocked back, and didn't have the finances to start out flying when I left school. I did about 4 hours in gliders while I was in the AIRTC and a few spots of powered flying, but mostly I am a PC pilot. Recently I have got interested again and I got a gift of an hour in a 737 simulator. The instructors positive feedback on my flying have encouraged me to have a real go.

My original plan was to try for a Jetstar or Qantas cadetship, tough it out financially for 18 months to get through the training and hopefully work up from there. The reality of having to support my family with no income sort of shot that. Also the many threads covering the cadetships also helped frame what I was really aiming for.

So, now I am looking at doing training off my own bat part time, aiming to get the PPL and an MECIR rating to open up options and then trying to build hours for a CPL. Once there, see if I can get any leg ups to broaden my aviation horizons.

My questions are:

1. Are there many opportunities to build hours other than off my own initiative?
2. Are there real prospects for me to get employment that I could support a family with using the above plan?
3. Can anyone recommend a flying school at Bankstown or Camden? I see there is plenty of variation in the costs just off the various websites.

Any advice or information appreciated.

Thanks,
A starry eyed newbie.

[Atlas Shrugged]

Can anyone recommend a flying school at Bankstown or Camden? I see there is plenty of variation in the costs just off the various websites.


:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Almost made it through a full week without this old chestnut!

after 10 years in IT

.....one should be able to use the Search function!

[j3pipercub]

SgtBundy

Welcome to the wonderful world of PPRUNE, filled with the cynical, the over it, the pretenders and the know it alls. :}

Answering some of your questions:

1. Are there many opportunities to build hours other than off my own initiative?

Could you please define 'Opportunities'? I am unsure what you are referring to.

2. Are there real prospects for me to get employment that I could support a family with using the above plan?

That will depend on several factors ie. Where you will be going, where your family intend to live when you are hour building, what your end goal is, how much money you currently have in reserve. etc. I know of some who have done it, but have paid the price in the form of a new loan to get by. Others I know have had their family torn apart by it.

Unless you are well and truly committed to aviation, perhaps you should consider other options, for example, RAA Sport Flying on the weekends and staying in Sydney.

Your family may not understand why they have to move all over the country first chasing 'the 1000' then the 'twin' then the 'turbine' hours.

I am in no way trying to smudge the stars from your eyes, I just think in your circumstance, there are a few more considerations.

I think you should do a search of current pilot awards, how much new starts get paid and where the majority of new starts seem to be getting their first jobs. That will perhaps give you a bit more to go on.

j3

[SgtBundy]

Apologies. Will do. :O

[SgtBundy]

Thanks.

By opportunities I mean is there much in the way of GA flying below the level of needing a CPL i.e volunteer work, unpaid flying etc, other than what I could do just on my own.

The family in tow has been my main consideration in all this - I suppose what I am looking for is how I can minimise what I have to put them through to obtain my dream and if a piecemeal approach to getting there is practical.

[Jabawocky]

SgtBundy

Welcome to the wonderful world of PPRuNe, filled with the cynical, the over it, the pretenders and the know it alls. :}

He asked for advice not your personal profile J3!:}

J3 has summed it up....but for the sake of getting you a local bloke who is on pprune....send a PM to Ultralights, he is in GA and RAA training, and a pretty good bloke....despite what any of us on here would say :E.

Whatever you do Do not FLY on the basis of doing it for free. Either you pay....or they pay you! Of course you will need your CPL for the latter.

J:ok:

[Wizofoz]

SgtBundy,

The usual avenues for building time are Parachute Flying and Glider Towing.

I gotta say, you are taking on a big hurdle if you need to constantly have a family-size income throughout your initial steps towards flying.

You might want to consider moving instead towards flying being a self-funded hobby/second job.

If you got into Gliding, RAA, or even GA flying through an Aero Club, you could aim towards instructing in any of them. If you did so in the GA stream, it MIGHT lead full time flying with the chance of going on the Charter, regional or, it is not inconceivable, Airlines.

The problem is you aren't in a position to do the bar-tending in Katherine waiting for a job type thing, and probably couldn't feed the kids (assuming you'd want to take them somewhere like Katherine) on what you'd earn if you did.

Seriously, I'd re-visit the Cadet schemes. I am making no value judgment on them here (suffice to say I don't like them!) but they do seem the way of the future.

[SgtBundy]

Thanks Jabawocky and J3.

Sounds like my best bet is to go for my PPL and just work up from there if life allows it.

Another question if I may, what is the typical sort of work out there for a fresh CPL holder? Charter etc?

[SgtBundy]

Thanks Wizofoz.

[chook2706]

SgtBundy

I will give you a bit of my situation to give you an idea

Last year, in my mid 30s I was in the same situation as you. Had PPL for years but could never afford the CPL. Got to the point where I needed to make a decision as to whether to do it because of the age. Basically came down to what would have disappointed me more when I was old and grey. The fact that I didnt get it or the fact that I wasted the money. The finance minister was happy for me to do it, so I went and got it.

As per the above, I had a full time job and couldnt afford to live on the measly pilots wage (mortgage, car repayments, family etc) so I have kept my full time job. Luckily enough I managed to get a casual job here with a good company and boss.

I did the study while the missus was pregnant and the practical with our little one only about 2 months old. Now I am pretty much working 7 days a week using my days off and holidays to fly. Hard on the family life but at least we still have the money to be able to afford things and hopefully it will only be for a year or two.

In answer to your questions.
1) Not that I have seen especially in major centres where there are probably a 100 other people trying to do the same thing. Smaller and remote areas, you might have more luck. Though I would count on paying for most of it yourself.
2) Not without an ATPL, 1000 or more hours. Better off keeping your full time job and working casually. You could also drop down to part time and then pick up more casual hours. Other option, being IT are you able to work from home and work around the flying hours.
3) Cant answer, mine was all done over in WA.

Other advice, probably wouldnt worry about your MECIR at this stage, most companies will only have you flying the singles until about 750hrs anyway, so I think you will be paying for the rating and renewals, when you wont be needing. Use the 20G to pay off the house or something.

Work available - charter, instructing, glider towing, etc. Though you would have to seriously look at going north and remote to build up the hours.

You have one advantage that I have, age. Some companies prefer the older junior pilot with a family. Less inclined to take risks, treat the a/c better, more willing to listen and learn etc.

Any other questions just let me know

Cheers

[Brian Abraham]

SgtBundy, I think you'll find most aviators would say "live your dream". Unfortunately practicalities do enter into real life. Jobs are out there and you're not going to be earning much in excess of $30K PA, that's assuming its a full time job. Many are seasonal in nature, but the upside to that is you will probably be putting in a full 100 hours a month while employed. As for taking the family with you, see what the better half thinks of the following residence. The upside to this location are the people - leave the keys in the unlocked car, leave wallet in unlocked house whilst at the pub - the way life should be. And the employer is a 5* Gem (rare in GA) who gives newly minted CPLs a go. Good luck whatever the leash holder allows you to do. ;)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/100_0992.jpg
Previous occupant reckoned it's haunted.

[SgtBundy]

Thanks Brian - I think its in my best interests to not even find out what she would think

[skidmark1975]

Nice outdoor entertainment area!!!!

[Wally Mk2]

'Sarg' despite what 'AS' said (there's one in every crowd!!!) what most have said here re starting out is correct. To start late really means it's possible if you have work already established in another field. I started late with young family in tow but made it as I had a well paid shift work job in an allied industry that paid the bills with me working also another job (ex motor mech) so every spare cent went into flying. It's doable but only if yr dedicated to almost beyond belief:) Oh & ya gotta know people in this game too!:-)
As for what jobs are out there with basic hrs? Well others here more 'current' can fill in the gaps to assist you in further decisions but never let go of the dream, it's those dreams of flying as a child (assuming you have had them since then) that get you thru:ok:If yr half hearted about it take up chicken farming:)
Good luck & don't let the neg people here put you off.


Wmk2

[Homesick-Angel]

You have to give it a go if you've got the bug..

But...

Driving around in a piece of crap car for a few years(sold the nice one to pay for time in the air), living with family who aren't in a position to lend me money, but have been awesome with letting me stay rent free for months at a time, and working two jobs while trying to study theory and fly has been extremely taxing.... and I dont have the family in tow..My partner is very understanding though, and fully supports me and is even willing to move if we have to..Being a nurse is helpful for her because regional areas are generally struggling to hold medical staff.

I have to say tho, that after all that, I love flying more than ever, and it continues to excite me and inspire me in spite of all the crap Ive had to do and go without to get to this point.I was lucky enough to be offered a job instructing at the school that I studied at, and will commence with them in a few months.(when I finish the frickn rating!)

If you want it bad enough and the family know how hard its gonna be, and support you, then go for it...

Im off to watch episode 12 and 13 of ice pilots..

[A37575]

Other advice, probably wouldnt worry about your MECIR at this stage, most companies will only have you flying the singles until about 750hrs anyway,

It all depends if you have the money and time to obtain the instrument rating. Personally, I believe in obtaining an instrument rating as part of the CPL training. The price will always be increasing and far better to get instrument rated now and even if your first job is VFR singles, the rating will give you increased confidence for the time you might be caught inadvertently in bad weather. RAAF pilots graduate at 210 hours (in my day, anyway) with an instrument rating as that is seen as an essential part of being a professional pilot.

If the job situation fails to materialise, then it becomes up to you if you can afford the instrument rating renewals each year. There is nothing worse than doing VFR charters then without an current instrument rating you may have to turn back because of cloud.

The temptation to press on regardless into worsening weather in order to complete the task is one of the human factors hazards you are certain to face one day or night while flying VFR. At least if you have a current instrument rating you will be in a better position to make the right call.

Don't under estimate the increase in confidence you will have after gaining an instrument rating. This doesn't mean the trap of over-confidence but the quiet confidence you will have in yourself that you can cope with dark night flying in both VMC and IMC.

Personal opinion only, of course.

[Ducksarse]

Have you considered having another go with the RAAF? I believe age limits have been relaxed or removed, you will be getting paid a salary and your flying training wont cost you anything. I guess there is the 10 year ROSO (bond) to consider but if flying is what you want to do it may be worth a second look.

....no I don't work for recruiting. :)

[boardpig]

..what is it you have the bug for? Flying?

If so, why not stay in IT, buy a share in a bug smasher, fly it whenever you want and still be able to support the family and spend time with them?
Consider that after 6 months, it becomes a job. Then you start to focus on the T and C's which, as is known, are cr*p.
It's worth considering that you don't have to make financial prisoners of you and your family to satisfy a love of flying. Use the considerably increased prospects from your current employ to feed your flying habit.

Having said ALL of that.. I know exactly where you're coming from. (unfortunately most of the operators understand where you're coming from also). It might well be the wrong decsion to make but, they don't call it a disease for nothing!!

BP.

[SgtBundy]

Thanks all for the advice.

With my family situation it seems like my only option is to just try to do what I can privately, and if something comes up down the track take it from there. Moving isn't possible as I have special needs kids and we have to be near capitals to get any decent services for them. That in itself pretty much nails it.

Hopefully I have my grandfathers flying skills and can make a good go of it anyway ;)

I plan to head out to Camden this weekend and see what I can find out about getting started.

[solowflyer]

If I was in your boots I would be keeping your day job and Intstructing in the weekends, that way you can have the income and slowly clock up the hours and not need to move. Also have a look at RA cheaper way to build hours and will be able to convert to GA later on down the track.

[Mr. Hat]

Have a go at QF and JQ cadetships. Don't try and make your families life harder than it needs to be. They are more important than what people on pprune/industry think about you.

You are not bringing the industry down by doing so. The people that bring the industry down are those that vote yes for poor conditions during eba negotiations.

Don't bother with any other ga cadetships stick with the ones the QF group offer.

Good luck.

P.s. I've done ga/regionals/airlines to death don't need any lectures on how cadets ruin it for everyone.

[SgtBundy]

Thanks Mr Hat. I am keeping them in mind but mostly just to see if they give me a sniff - my problem is supporting my family during the full time training. If QF are willing to give me a go, then I will make it work regardless, but I have not heard back from them if they are running their ab initio program next year.

I do find it interesting that Jetstar actually asks you why you think they are introducing the course and what the disadvantages may be. I have spent enough time in the corporate world to know company motivations are rarely for employees. While filling out the form I was wondering if they were looking for someone astute enough to answer accurately or innocent enough to be ignorant. That was prior to my reading of these forums, so I am treading with care.

At any rate I think its about time I got started outside of Microsoft flight sim.

[M14_P]

Well if I were you I'd keep my job in IT, get my PPL, get a share in something fun (preferrably with a tailwheel) and have some fun with my flying and continue with what I presume is a reasonable income. It ain't worth the hassle, especially if you have a family.....

Just my opinion. :)