EK - and the truth is .............

[jbayfan]

DATE:29/06/10
SOURCE:Flight International

No stopping Emirates as it plans to add 700 pilots

By Murdo Morrison

Is there no stopping Emirates? Just over a year after the global financial crisis dashed the Dubai dream, and with network carriers around the world battling losses, the region's biggest airline has in recent weeks announced record net profits of $964 million, an order for 32 more Airbus A380s and plans to hire 700 pilots and 3,000 cabin crew over the next 18 months.

Emirates' performance over the past 12 months has been gravity-defying. With new routes and more to be added this year, its weekly departures from Dubai International are up more than a tenth to 1,118 from June 2009.

The economic crunch caused a relative blip in Emirates' relentless recruitment last year - in the 12 months to 31 March 2009 it took on just 140 pilots. "We didn't need them but we honoured their contracts," says Capt Alan Stealey, Emirates divisional senior vice-president flight operations. Now the airline is almost back to 2007-08 hiring levels and the tempo is increasing.

"This financial year has been a year of two halves," he says, referring to the period to 31 March 2010. "In the second half we saw a pronounced recovery, we used our backlog of pilots up and now we are recruiting at full pace for the current year."

Current pilot numbers are 2,282, of which 1,127 are captains. With up to 45 pilots needed every month, Emirates is stepping up its recruitment efforts with a target of talking to 32 individuals a week.

The airline recently held a recruitment roadshow in Madrid - to which it will launch services in August - and Stealey says pilots from recently failed or downsizing airlines, including Flyglobespan and SAS, are providing a pool of potential recruits.

As with every Gulf employer, providing careers for nationals is a priority. With 38 captains, 116 first officers and 36 cadet pilots from the airline's UAE citizens-only training programme, Emiratis account for 8% of flightcrew. With a further 142 students going through an ab initio programme, locals should fill some of the recruitment gap.

Emirates currently only recruits first officers, regardless of experience, with minimum requirements being 4,000h of which 2,000h must be multi-engine. However, despite a seniority list, promotion tends to be rapid.

"Some will have been captains already, but we can offer brand new widebodies including the possibility of flying the A380, international routes and you still get to upgrade to command here quicker than almost anywhere in the world," says Stealey.

Emirates is keen to sell Dubai as well as the airline itself to potential pilot recruits. "We invite everyone here for interview, paid by us," says Alison Ward, vice president human resources. "It's easier to do it here, but we also want them to see where they will be making their home."

Although occasionally pilots choose to commute, Emirates prefers them to relocate to Dubai. "We are trying to pick people who will adapt," she says.

Despite Emirates' need for flightcrew - the attrition rate is only 2% - only about half of all interviewees are taken on. As well as a simulator assessment, applicants are also tested on their crew resource management skills and given a psychometric check. "Pure piloting skills are important but it's only part of the story," says Stealey. "We are looking for a particular type. Someone who will work in a multicultural environment."

Pilots who do join Emirates are particularly well looked after. When they and their families first arrive at the airport they are collected and taken to their accommodation, with the services of an induction officer to help them settle. Single or married pilots are given an apartment; those with children get a villa. Both can be furnished and water and electricity is paid up to a certain level. Emirates provides a car loan and a driver takes pilots to and from work. "The company tries to look after everything they need," says Ward.

Emirates' expansion means it will need 700 more pilots and 3,000 cabin crew by the end of 2011

Although they do not get quite the same package, Emirates' 11,000 cabin crew are also taken care of while they live in Dubai, with en suite bedroom in shared apartments. Although Emirates does not own accommodation, Dubai's property slump has ensured a steady supply. "Landlords are still knocking on our doors," says Ward. "We're in a privileged position."

With the business a quarter of a century old, and the retirement age recently raised from 60 to 65, some of Emirates' captains are veterans of the airline. "We have several who have been here since we were founded," says Stealey. "Boy, did they get it right when they joined." In a turbulent airline industry, stability is still one of the biggest pluses Emirates offers, he maintains. "In 25 years we have never, ever laid a pilot off."

[Mister Warning]

Was about to tear this to shreds, but then I thought "who cares?".....

[critical winge]

In a failing city where investments have dropped by 50% and cost of living has more than doubled, the lies that need to be told by the company and the government are of enormous proportion to encourage people to come. I can assure you that some junior first officers have increased their seniority positions by over 200 on the seniority list of the stated 2200 or so pilots, not wishing to insult your intelligence but thats not 2%. 1 in 10 leave here pretty soon after coming and it can only get worse. The commitment required to come here is H U G E, its not your country, not your familys country and there are costs to living here that you will take from your family to pay your salary check. The aircraft are nice and shiny and widebody, that is it, thats the main (probably 0nly) attraction. Sell your family's welfare for the chance to fly the big shiny jet. Without a doubt, there is not 1 pilot here who is expat who doesn't have some reservation about joining and who cant ultimately wait until the day they get out of here.

As per very very many previous posts, you have been warned!

[fourgolds]

PLEASE COME. Its paradise here. Your employer will honour your contract . You have no chance of being fired during training ( even if you do a go around under the supervision of a training captain). You will not have to wait for a villa ( no temporary accomodation , and when you finally get to your new villa , you will really understand the meaning of the words "desert living" ( the new villa,s are far out of town in the middle of the desert). You will be shown something else when you visit for your recruitment ( in the spirit of honesty and integrity that your employer oozes).

The more guys that come , the more vacancies will be available elsewhere for many of us to return home. So a BIG PLease , PLease Please come and fly for EK. I am begging you more than the people quoted in the above article. In fact I am on my knees I am begging so hard.

[fly744]

Every individual has a different and good reason for wanting to join EK.Some pilots want to fly bigger jets,others want to earn a tax free salary,or being fourlough etc.Therefore even if you guys telling them dont come,they still will...as for you unhappy ones,you may leave,go where you will be happy!!! You make the decisions,you r big boys...:D

[Bidalot]

yeah, but do remember some of them CAN NOT leave as they tried to play in a league they do not belong to....re real estate saga...so some are just pissed off and do not tell but vent themselves via this channel here! Should have known before ! Halas !

[ManaAdaSystem]

Yes, the "lets go to the mall for a steak and two villas" league, but they seem to blame everything on EK anyway.
You make your bed and you sleep in it, but somehow I don't feel like getting in there with you. And I don't want to listen to your bitter bed time stories.

[Bidalot]

why ? time to get back to reality my friend

[puff m'call]

"We didn't need them but we honoured their contracts," says Capt Alan Stealey, Emirates divisional senior vice-president flight operations.

Well that will be a dam first!!!!!!:mad:ers

So now they admit it's a contract do they, another first!!!

So may be thay will recognise breach of contract, which they do so often.:ugh:

[Wizofoz]

puff,

Can you quantify one actual breach of contract?

DEWA would definatley have been, had they gone through with the bluff to charge, but they didn't.

Productivity and increment aren't actually in recent contracts, and I haven't heard of anyone who DID have increments in their contract having it broken, as they were all on the top increment already.

If I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to be corrected, but I think they've played it smart enough to have not actually breached anyones conract, while still getting a lot more out of us for a lot less money.

[Kennytheking]

Yeah, troff, you tell us..........

There are kids working in sweatshops in China......that means its ok for EK to play noughts and crosses with us:E

[troff]

Working at EK is a lot better than working other places.
This is my seventh flying job in 23 years. Of the other six, I thought I could retire from five of them.
Politics, 9-11, bad management and a contract limitation put me on the street over and over.
The grass isn't greener any more. There is no security- anywhere.
The way things go here is the way things go. Take what you can get, or more like it, take what is given. Sorry, but this is as good as it gets.
No one forced you here. Did you think things would change when YOU got here? Did you think that unions or associations would be created and human rights as YOU know them would be respected upon your arrival? Did you think that YOU could make a difference?
If you don't like it, show it with your feet, please.
T

[troff]

What defines a "veteran" at EK?
T

[40&80]

Possibly....
Veteran = An optimistic and gullible pilot who is also a total mug.
There were many of us Expats. and local Nationals with 20 to 30 plus years loyal service waiting for things to get organised and better at Gulf Air and it has not happened... yet.
I feel it is all happening again at EK, EY,QR....and it must be management policy.

[Wizofoz]

eklawer,

In fact, the "Prime Document" I signed does not make reference to any other document with regard to pay and conditions.

Salary, accomodation (including Utilities), Education, Provident Fund, ERP and profit share are explicitey mentioned. Productivity and incremental pay are not.

Don't get me wrong, I joined under the understanding that it was 3% a year and 78hrs in a 31 day month, but those were not mentioned in the one, mutually signed document.

If, as you say, it is just as big a breach to alter those items, why is it that everything that IS in the contract (notably the DEWA bill inspite of threats to the contrary) has been honoured?

[ferris]

Here I think you are confusing what is accepted legal practice, with the inability to enforce.
IMHO, you are confusing the worthlessness of a promise (an employment "contract") under sharia, with what is in the labour law (which is enforcable).

[fourgolds]

troff I have seen many like you. the companies blue eyed boys. just wait until a policy is passed that adversely affects you ( its coming). or worse if you have an incident of any kind. Then I will refer you to your post.

[fourgolds]

Troff
When I joined ( around 10 years ago) I also new what i was signing up for , and its not what you signed up for , that I gaurantee you.
It used to be a great place to work .So I also signed up with my eyes wide open. Oh and as for leaving , I,m working on it mate.

If you live in a minefield it just a matter of time , before you step on one.
Good luck to you

[troff]

Thank you 4G's for your words of wisdom.
I have been here a large portion of your time and have learned from my mistakes as well as the mistakes of others. I will continue to tread lightly and try to and insure that "a herd of goats"- whatever you conceive that to be- go forth ahead of me into the minefield in which I (we) work.
It's a shame that EK can't be a place to get the job done right and have fun doing it, but Wardair was finished a long time ago and them's the breaks.:sad:

[airbus757]

I miss Ed!

7

[sheikmyarse]

The truth is that EK , not with standing you nice effort, is way short of getting the people they need. I would say desperate.
What they don't take into account is that pissing off people is not for sure the best way to get the ambassadors they might want. EK fails to understand that their promotional campaigns made of bold statement golden plated leaflet and shiny brochure are not working as they used to and they will less and less in the future. Still a few believers are falling into the trap.I just hope that they are in need. If you voluntary resign a permanent position in civilization to join EK you will one day, sooner a later regret it. This even more seeing the current trend. It used to be a wonderful job up to 5 years ago. Nowaday EK is just like any other corporation. Unaccountable and polluting like BP, treating persons like Mc Donald, ..but serving serving only mutton burger!

[Wizofoz]

The truth is that EK , not with standing you nice effort, is way short of getting the people they need. I would say desperate.

And from where did you get this information, Shiek?

I can assure you that the guys jolnlng at the moment are highly experienced and are going through training very well. At the moment, there are far more suitable candidates than there were in the months before the GCC.

It may well dry up, and it would be nice for our T&Cs if it did.

But at the moment your post is confirmation (like we needed any) that your anomosity towards EK will make you say any old ****e, and truth is not a luxury you afford yourself.

[fatbus]

have to agree with Wiz, at the moment most of the new guys are very well qualified-320/73ng/md11 and other modern / widebody

[777-200LR]

+1 again with Wizofoz.

Since the new min requirements changed, lots of new guys on B737/A320 are well qualified. They've got 2500hrs ++ on type and are some being very young are easy to train and easily adapt to life in Dubai.
Best thing EK's done all year, albeit with not much choice!!

[sheikmyarse]

Fact is that what ever I post the same three guys are always immediately ready to reply. Don' t you ever fly? I might be a little biased or i might be may be just willing to obtain some form of reaction who cares....but
Wizz of oz, Fatbus.... how do you get paid to do this pumping job? By the hour or by the post?
My source are much more informed than you can imagine.
Suitable applicant missing ,screening failure rates at 70%,no show for courses. Lowering the minimum to 2500 hours of jet time...any weight says it all...

[sheikmyarse]

777 200 LR... just a question. Fist of all how can you make such a statement. "Easy to train..adaptable". On what basis?
It is clear that this move of lowering minimus was is aimed to attract Easyjet Ryanair pilots or the like. But why should a lets say 28 to 38 years old FO from those outfit most probably close to his upgrade leave civilization to join EK for basically the same money, if not less, worst rosters being sure of having to spend the next 5 years on the RH seat? To have the privilege to spend 24 hours in the airport Hotel in CDG or 36 hours in JFK or to have the privilege to live in Dubai?

[Oblaaspop]

Less money?

Interesting and INCORRECT assumption Sheiky!!

You will find the average Ryan F/O TAKES HOME around 3500-3800 Euros per month...FACT!!!

But do bare in mind that if they don't fly, they don't earn. So, take a few weeks off for summer vacation, break your leg the following month and the mortgage doesn't get paid. Not to mention the fact that they have to pay for a coffee on board (3 Euros), pay for the flight to Dublin for their PPC every 6 months, pay for their medical, NO pension, NO concessionary travel, they even pay for the staff car park....the list goes on!


Do your research before posting!! My info was from a Ryan F/O I spoke to THIS WEEK.

Get yourself in the real world..... its bad, but it ain't that bad here!

The average F/O here will earn something in the order of 5000 Euros (24,000dhs), oh and he wont have a Mortgage to service:E

Why the hell wouldn't a 26 year old want the keys to a shiny new B777 or A330 with the prospect of a wide body command in his mid 30's?

[Oblaaspop]

Spot on Contacted:ok:

Though I fear you are wasting your breath!

Mr arse will not listen despite overwhelming evidence shooting his arguments down in flames (which lets face it, is pretty damned easy to do, hell, I've been doing it for months!!).

He will simply retort the best/only way he knows how, which will involve comments like ''You must be management'', "You are a management wannabe", "How much are management paying you to blow the wind up EK's bottom" or other such comments a 7 year old would write! In no way could we ever expect a well balanced, well judged, factual ADULT argument from him.......

Go on Arse man, prove me wrong....... I dare you!

[sheikmyarse]

Habibi the vast majority of FO are looking for un upgrade fast. Having spent three years in that out fit they will hold on a little bit more do their command get 1000 of it and than may be someone will consider EK that will give them better opportunity to escape once they'll realize their error...unless they are stupid.
Friend of mine A320 SFO EZ 5000+ net salary with 85 hours and fixed predictable roster leaving in his own house in his own home town and his own country sleeping in his bed and no night flying at all. Married two kids 34 years old.The advantage for EK are evident. If you then put in the balance "hotties" that proves that you have seen too many movies... The few Ryanair DEC I met... are all back in Ryanair. And that says it all...
But on one point you are right... the heat.. LOADS OF HEAT!!!

[Jetjock330]

SS,
The same goes for the little brother bullEY down the other end of the SZR.

[GMC1500]

I don't know what kind of pay some guys were receiving prior to coming to EK, but nowadays in anything but an established legacy carrier from a westernized country, pay is ****e!! Then you have extremely high taxes and cost of living (mortgage/rent) to deal with. My take home pay went up several hundred percent from flying in Canada, let alone with no mortgage to pay.
Guys will continue to apply, there is no doubt. Certainly better for single guys, much harder for the wife and family to adapt and be happy then it is for the guys going on layovers all over the world.
Opportunities to even be an FO on a modern widebody tend to be rare in most countries, let alone prospect of command in 5 yrs time frame give or take.
Some guys are never happy, that's a given. But I'm not one of the expats who's counting the days til I can go back home. If I could get the pay and lifestyle back home, maybe, but that's never going to happen.

[astronaute]

A friend of mine,SFO at Easy on the 319, make more money than I do on the 330 at EY !

An other friend of mine, former SFO at Ryanair, who is at EY now on the W-B , used to make more money on the 737 !!!

Now lets talk about the western flag carriers.For instance in AF, a W-B FO make between 9000 and 12000 Euros net,a Cpt make between 12000 ( 320) and 25000 (380) net /month and these times 14 ! With pension , social security and unions , avoiding the losers in mgmt, to do what ever they want !:mad:

Those are facts !

[Bidalot]

and here we go....AIRSHOW-Emirates to place $5 bln Boeing order | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE66G0AJ20100717)

let's wait and see what comes up :eek:

[nolimitholdem]

Why the hell wouldn't a 26 year old want the keys to a shiny new B777 or A330 with the prospect of a wide body command in his mid 30's?

Dubai.
UAE.
Middle East.
Because not every pilot suffers from Small Dick Syndrome.

Next question?

There is nothing that will prove the aphorism "money isn't everything" more than using it as your only or main criteria to work for Emirates Airline.

Agreed it IS a curiousity how a few posters seem to have all the time in the world to act as apologists...is the official PR budget not large enough?

[777w]

Just when you thought our obsession with the Indian Market was unparalleled..this caught my attention!

Travel Biz Monitor :: Emirates plans to pick up stake in Indian carrier (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.travelbizmonitor.com%2Femirates-plans-to-pick-up-stake-in-indian-carrier-10916&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fcabin-crew%2F287862-emirates-crew-discussions-ii-28.html)

[Fart Master]

Actually ra I think he was just being as rude as you to make a point.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.......