harder to train in USA and then doing JAA exams

[Clintonb]

Can anybody tell me who has done this.
Gone to the USA and did their training as there its more flying then theory and then once got all the licenses in FAA ppl,cpl MEI etc, went back to europe to convert to JAA. so question is did it make it more difficult for you to understand the theory work and doing the exams as you didnt have to do all the necessary ground school and exams for PPL and CPL and the rest.

im debating whether it makes life more harder training in the US and then converting to JAA and doing the exams. of course you would understand it maybe because you been flying for a few months in obtaining your licenses in the US but when you go into the exams for the JAA you've never gone through the subjects in ground school.

any information would be great to shed some light on this for me. thanks you

safe flying

[B2N2]

Well I haven't done it personally but know a lot of students that did.
FAA zero-hero + JAA conversion can be done (significantly) cheaper then JAA training alone.
In general it would look like this:
FAA training until CPL-ME-IR
JAA ATPL ground school
Conversion for JAA CPL/IR & ME.

did it make it more difficult for you to understand the theory work and doing the exams as you didnt have to do all the necessary ground school and exams for PPL and CPL and the rest

That doesn't really apply since you have to do the JAA ATPL ground school before the license conversions.
So you are up to speed academically with everything that Europa-land requires before you train for the licenses/ratings.

I would recommend it to everyone that asks, FAA fisrt then JAA conversion.
The way to go as far as I am concerned.
Worst case scenario is that the cost turns out to be the same; even then you're out ahead since you are dual qualified and have much more varied flight experience.

Beware, you will hear a lot of arguments against it.

[Callsign Kilo]

You have to be careful. Sometimes, saving a buck on the front end doesn't mean that you will save it on the back end as well. Some schools in the US are of quality, some aren't. I have came across students (who have trained in the US) who lack basic skills. We are talking about 'Effects of Control 1&2' here, not more complex tasks like flying an NDB hold with a 35kt crosswind. The first 10-20 hours of a students life in an aeroplane are the most important. You don't get them back.

Do your research. Look at the arguments.

[windypops]

I did all my training in the UK. If I were to do it all again, I would do all my training in the UK.

I never found any of it particularly difficult or massively stressful, so the argument for going to the US to get a more "relaxed introduction" is not applicable in my case and therefore many others.

We all learn best in different ways so "having the option" if you want to call it that, is quite a good thing. Only you know as an individual what is best FOR YOU.

This topic is discussed so much, and it will be for as long as the rules allow it. There will never be a "right or wrong" way, as what is better for one individual is not for someone else.

Personally for me the ball ache of going to the US and everything that goes with it, compared to doing everything in my backyard was a no brainer. But being an individual is what makes the world go round, and it keeps life interesting.



Edited to say after reading my post again, I want to point out that I certainly didn't find it "easy", it did require an awful lot of work, but at the same time it never seemed "impossible"

[Clintonb]

firstly thank you to everybody for giving some information on this any information helps really appreciate it

i can see what everyone is saying i know it is different for everyone im just stuck in a rut debating where to do my training i know there is no right or wrong way but im just trying to find the cheapest and i wouldn't say not the easiest but maybe quickest way to do it.
here my options do my training in the US they say i can get everything up to CPL MEI in 4 months for 50k(living/food included) and then go over to europe and do the conversion and fATPL exams

or go to south africa do the training for 50k also with CPL MEI (living/food included) but it takes about 14 to 18 months once im done with exams check rides etc and then on top do the ATPL exams so basically im looking at 2 years till im done.


also quick question i know a license is a license but i hear airlines prefer if you have done integrated training then modular which i guess they check how you did your training not really caring where you did your training.

thanks again for everyones responses have a great weekend and safe flying

[Clintonb]

sorry just quickly to b2n2 or anybody else that knows this having a FAA cpl/ IR&ME what is the procedure for the Conversion to JAA CPL/IR & ME.
do you have to take all the exams for them just like if you were to do your training in Europe or is it just check ride exams???

thanks again

[B2N2]

FAA>JAA:


14 ATPL written exams
Minimum 10 hrs training for CPL SE
Minimum 15 hrs training for IR
Training as required for ME conversion


So you have to do all exams plus the minimum required flight training.

[Jwscud]

I can't tell you how hard it is, but I'm taking a similar route at the moment. I did my PPL in the UK, and am doing the JAA ATPL theory exams at the moment. I plan on going out to the USA to do my CPL/IR early next year once I've finished the theory (JAA and studying FAA).

The question is how much of a hurry you're in - given the current job market, I'm in no great rush to complete my training. One of the great advantages to me of FAA training is the chance to spend a few months in some cool new places, make some new friends and have some serious fun doing it.

If you're working to pay for your training, you aren't realistically going to manage it in less than 2 years or so even if you use all your holiday time flying so don't be in a rush - enjoy your flying.

The US guys on this forum offer good advice (which I've benefited from recently), so take heed.

[Pitch+Power]

Minimum 10 hrs training for CPL SE


Not true.. training as required.

[B2N2]

Not true.. training as required
Ok I stand corrected, thought it was 10 hrs.
Anyways, I would always recommend flight training in the US followed by JAA conversion.

[amritkalsi]

I was just thinking of you simon when I read this thread lol

[Airbus Girl]

I did this route, although it was a few years back (1990s).

Firstly, please only take advice from those who have flown in both USA and UK/Europe. I have heard so many pilots who have only flown in the UK say that it is the best/only place to learn to fly. Ask most people who have flown in the USA as well and you will get a much more balanced view. So best to speak to those who have done both FAA and JAA licences.

I did FAA PPL/ME/Single engine IR/CPL (all part-time, whilst on planned "vacation" trips) and then I gradually converted to CAA frozen ATPL (now JAA!). Shortly (actually very shortly!) after which I stared flying a jet for a UK airline.

I had to do the UK ATPL ground exams (although I think I was exempt from taking Morse because I had an FAA licence. Even though you don't do morse for that either...), the PPL and Multi were a straight swap to JAA, apart from doing a couple of exams I think (RT and Human Factors I think). I had to do "sufficient" training for the UK ME IR (did 10 hours including test and positioning to the airfield to start the test) and then I did a flight test to get my first commercial rating - on a C172!!!

I've flown a fair amount now in the USA, as I did some hour building there, and flew from California to Florida (Key West) and back, and also from San Diego up to Vancouver and back, as well as various other flying out there.

I also flew a light twin from the UK around Europe.

I would say:-
Benefits of US - flying is so much easier, you can do lots of it, really get into a routine, visit lots of airports and get familiar with structured flying into big airports (the sort of thing you will be doing if you go onto the airlines). You can fly at night, its no big issue. There are some great places to go and see, and when you land you can often get a free car and accommodation. The weather can vary hugely (whilst doing early hour building I had serious IMC weather, some very interesting winds, all sorts. I had way more exposure to different weather conditions in the USA than I ever did in Europe). Instrument approaches are free, so you can practice to your heart's delight, and there are both procedural airfields and radar airfields. You generally have to think on your feet a bit more, but the back up is very good if you need something.

Benefits of UK - radio is more "proper" phrases. There are NDBs. IR flying is much more pre-planned and "booked" than in the USA. (Often in the US you can just get airborne from a non-controlled field, and call up on the radio to file your IR flight plan). You can pay plenty of landing fees and approach fees. It is a lot more "procedural" when flying light aircraft at small fields (not so much when flying airliners as at the big airports its usually radar vectored to ILS).

Personally, having done a few hundred hours light aircraft flying in each place, I would much rather go to the US. The kind of flying I did out there was much more aligned to airline flying (eg. file IFR flight plan, get clearance, take off from medium sized airport in San Diego, radar monitored, fly up to Las Vegas McCarran Intl, vectored for ILS, land, get taxi instructions, arrive at handling agent. Park, get transport back to office.). No charges with regards landings or routes, parking charge may apply (usually not if you take fuel).

[potkettleblack]

Maybe take into consideration if you want to fly light aircraft at some point in the future once your qualified and working commercially as well.

I did JAA all the way and I have a few friends that went FAA initially then converted. They never lost their licences (sorry certificates as they call them in the US). Also their ratings are for life I understand eg: floatplane.

Now with an ATPL and 3000 hours plus on an Airbus my single engine and multi engine piston ratings are long since gone and I will have to go back to a flying school and shell out 150 quid an hour for god only knows how many hours to bimble around plus get an examiner to do a skill test. Lord only knows how much it would cost me on top to get the single pilot IR back as well to keep me legal should I wish to climb above the clouds and see the sun. Whereas under FAA I could pay a fraction of that for a refresher when I am there on my holidays or working and do the BFR as required. The yanks will no doubt transfer over all of my JAA ratings and IR as well which could come in mighty useful at some point if you are offered a gig on an N reg.

Well thats how I remembered it from when I was out there doing some hour building many moons ago but perhaps things have changed since then.

I wouldn't be basing my decision on the above solely but it might be worth taking into account.

[Clintonb]

thanks for everyones great advice.
ive been hearing that also that you loose your SE/ME piston engine licenses but thats if you haven't flown for a while but if you do get time off and fly for an hour it keeps your license current right? or do you have to fly so many times or so many hours in a year.?????