12 0'clock high

[chris keeping]

Evening Gents,

One of my favourite films was 12o'clock high, a classic in my opinion, and one which my previous organisation used for leadership training. I am keen to add it to my DVD collection, but heard that on DVD the opening, rather nostalgic scene of the admin officer returning to his old airfield had been cut out, as had some other parts. Can anybody who has a copy confirm this or otherwise before I part with my hard earned cash. Many thanks.

[Lukeafb1]

Chris,

Your information is very wide of the mark. I have a 16mm original copy which my father obtained (he was on the film crew) and this version is identical to the current DVD which is available from more than one supplier. The current version has a large close up of Gregory Peck smoking a cigarette on the DVD cover. The "Admin Officer" is Harvey Stovall, played by Dean Jagger (he was nominated for and won an 'Oscar' for his part in the film).

[stepwilk]

Thank god! That opening scene, where Dean Jagger bicycles back to his old base with the Toby mug, and looks down the old, weedy hardstand...and then the grass begins to flail in the propblast of cranking engines, is only one of the finest, most evocative scenes ever filmed.

[Tempsford]

Stepwilk- agreed sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it. Then the singing as well. Very evoctaive, and quite brilliant.

[ColinB]

Twelve O'Clock High (1949) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041996/)

The IMDB site listed above gives every detail you could wish for this outstanding movie. It still grips and was good enough to win awards and was the source of a TV series.

[JEM60]

The opening scene was worthy of an 'Oscar' in itself. That sort of scene at the start of a film has been used by many directors since, I suspect, but never bettered.

[bingofuel]

Is it still shown as a training film to new Officers and NCO aircrew?

[Rollingthunder]

Was shown this film as training aid. With mixed results.

If missing opening scene....add this

gi2NwU38NzA

[DeepestSouth]

Got the DVD for Christmas and that scene is definitely there. I remember it from Cranditz where it was 'paired' with 'Tunes of Glory' to illustrate different leadership styles and their implications. The lessons are still there...!

[Ramshornvortex]

....or you could stream the whole film free from www.veoh.com (http://www.veoh.com). And yes, it definitely has the proper beginning. What a great film :D. It has been widely used in leadership training in non-military circles for many years.

[Lukeafb1]

As a couple of people have already mentioned, the film has been used for many years as a leadership tool. It was originally used at Sandhurst on a course called 'Action Centered Leadership' or ACL and was eventually adopted by the Industrial Society for civilian training. However, it was usually necessary for the tutor to set the heirarchy in a civilian context. I had a slide which I used to transpose the military characters into civilian counterparts. It at least gave delegates with little or no military experience, an understanding of what the characters would have been in civilian life.

Later, a number of feature film have been used to illustrate good and bad leadership , including: "The Bofors Gun", Twelve Angry Men", "A Few Good Men" and as has already been mentioned, "Tunes of Glory".

[chris keeping]

Gentlemen, thank you for your replies, and for that peek at the opening scenes. I shall be ordering a copy tonight.

[Noah Zark.]

I've just looked at the clip in post # 8, and, whilst agreeing with the general feelings about the film, I was rather taken aback when I read the 'dedication' at the beginning of the clip, in which it states, quote > "They were the only Americans fighting in Europe in the fall of 1942. They stood alone, against the enemy.....' unquote.
Did they really?

[goudie]

Yes, I noticed that and it did jar a little but then one has to understand America's love for glory and heroism. Doesn't detract though from a fine film and the brave men that it depicted

[JEM60]

Without researching it, I suspect that is a poor use of English. My alternative view is that it referred to the fact that they were the only Americans in Europe at time [excluding Eagle Squadron], rather than they were the only nationality fighting in Europe.....Should have been 'standing alone as the only Americans fighting in Europe'There is a subtle difference in it's inference the way I worded it, or perhaps I am just trying to be kind to them. Large scotch coming up, four days at Duxford from tomorrow.:):)

[Lukeafb1]

I have always (and I first saw "12 O' Clock High" as an 11 year old in Kenya in the 1950s - my father was then working on the film "King Solomon's Mines" with Stewart Granger and Deborah Kerr this time) believed that JEM60's interpretation of that passage is the one intended by the producer. Not even Americans (and I am one!) would have believed that the only people in Europe fighting the Germans, were American.

[Atcham Tower]

And also in the early days, the bombers had no fighter escort beyond Holland, the limit of the Thunderbolt's range.

[pasir]

...


- 12 O'clock High - one of the best films - Seen it many times.


On the point of 'No fighter escorts' - The USAAF entered the ETO
with the idea that B17s and B24s would be able to fly over enemy occupied Europe in daylight with no need for fighter escort - relying on being heavily armed and flying in special 'box' formations - together with claims that the Norden bombsight could 'Land a bomb in a pickle barrel from 10,000 ft.'
- But despite their bravery and courage would all sadly prove to be a disastrouse illusion. Operating during dayight raids only would prove to be a
further costly hazard - although the RAF bombing mostly at night would also prove just as costly.

The improved version of the P51 Mustang with long range and superior performance would not arrive until later in the war.

...

[603DX]

For those who might be interested, post #15 in the 'Wartime USAAF Songs' thread refers to this outstanding film.

[ColinB]

Featured in a wartime song? Wasn't the film made in 1949 after the war.
Perhaps Nostradamus told them, he was very popular with the Fuhrer.
I suppose as it is a USAAF songbook it could have been a later war.

[goudie]

The improved version of the P51 Mustang with long range

But these was no defence against flak, which accounted for many casualties

[603DX]

Is there a catch here?
Featured in a wartime song? Wasn't the film made in 1949 after the war.


ColinB:

The "Whiffenpoof Song" used as background music in this 1949-made film (but set in 1942) is much older than either WW2 or WW1. It originated in America around 1900, and as a popular 'Barber Shop' style piece, it would have been likely to be sung by US servicemen away from home during both world wars. So it was probably quite appropriate in 1942.

It certainly creates a sad, plaintive mood, evocative of the massive losses of young men in their prime of life.

[goudie]

YouTube - "The Whiffenpoof Song" (Rudy Vallee, 1927) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVUTHLFdQ0)

There is a chorus called the Yale Whiffenpoofs

[ColinB]

The Whiffenpoofs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whiffenpoofs)

This is the source of the Whippenpoof Songs. Ah, those Yalies, always singing down their nose.

[bobward]

Wasn't the filnm shot at one of the fields around Eglin AFB in Florida?

...and surely Wiffenpoofs are not PC anymore?

:eek::eek::eek:

[ColinB]

But they are now legal.
Gone are the days when ratings of alternate sexual orientation in the US Navy thought they were Officers by Act of Congress