Printing Woes Continue

[mcdhu]

Gents,

My printing woes previously described in November continue.

Briefly, I have a fairly 'standard' home network consisting of a main Dell Dimension PC, ethernet to a Netgear Wireless Modem Router with a non-wireless Canon MP520 (multifunction) printer connected to the main PC via USB. The other main users are another Dell Dimension PC upstairs, a Dell Inspiron laptop and a Samsung N110 Netbook all linked in wirelessly via the Netgear Router. All devices run Win Xp Home SP3. Internet provided via AOL Bb (Yes I know!!) Ideally, we require printing from all the devices.

Towards the end of last year I tried to install a Canon Print Server because the Netbook kept being unable to print wirelessly to the Canon MP, but my IT skills were not up to it. However during the process, I uninstalled the printer from all devices, installed the latest drivers from the Canon website and reinstalled on all devices and it seemed to be ok - until now!!

The problem seems to be that when the N110 throws a wobbler, it has somehow appeared to uninstall the printer on the main PC because when I look on the main PC, CP, Printers and faxes, the shared printer has disappeared!!. But if I restart the print spooler under Services, it reappears and allows printing to commence and I may also have to start the print Spooler Service on the Netbook .

There are other devices such as i-Touches which have access to the wireless network and someone did mention before that it was possible that only 5 devices could be attached using Win Xp Home. However, a mate who knows about this stuff has a similar config and has no such trouble.

Can anyone shed light on the dark recesses of the Print Spooler Service and its settings required - or anything else for that matter!!

Cheers all,
mcdhu

[spannersatcx]

I had 2 laptops and a pc on a network, using XP then Vista, the only time printer from the network worked properly was when I installed windows 7 on the lot.

Doesn't help a lot I know, but I think it indicates that using XP networking a printer never really worked 100%.

I did some google searches a while back and found some good info, (which I have shredded recently due to win 7 install) on printing in a network with xp/vista, might be worth a google.

[Saab Dastard]

using XP networking a printer never really worked 100%.

Works fine for me - 3 XP pro PCs, 2 printers, no problem sharing.

SD

[mcdhu]

Thanks Spanner, I've had a good google around but didn't find the 'smoking bullet' I'm hoping for.

Perhaps W7 is the answer, but not sure the kit will take it. Must check.

mcdhu

[high-flyer]

Hi all

The way you have the print sharing is not ideal. I agree it should work, but a better and much more reliable solution would be to use a print server, about £30 from ebay. I have the netgear WGPS606, which shares 2 printers to 6 PCs, 2 macs and 2 iphones. It looks like a router, and can connect wired or wireless into your network. Has worked flawlessly for me for the last 4 years,

hope it helps. Don't buy windows 7 on all those PCs just to get printing via USB sharing working! The print server is the way to go.:ok:

high-flyer

[mcdhu]

some months on, I'm a bit further forward with this.

The problem seems to be that the Samsung N110 fails to acquire an IP address from the Netgear router when the lad attempts to pipe all the notes he has taken at school into the PC.

The N110 has an Atheros AR5007EG wireless network adapter and Windows is managing the whole thing - the drivers are up to date. It recognises and connects to the network but, because it does not get an IP address, it cannot connect to the web. Lots of "...obtaining IP Address" but never does. 'Repair' doesn't help either; neither does restarting the Wireless Zero Config. Restarting the netbook sometimes does the trick; all the other devices in the house work fine on the wireless network.

The whole network is Xp SP3. Having Googled, it does seem that there is a problem with the Atheros adapter but all those who have helped me with this agree that all the right boxes are ticked etc.

Any further ideas anyone please?

Cheers
mcdhu

[JamesT73J]

Does disabling then enabling the adapter in the device manager work? I've encountered this problem sporadically on wireless LAN's (with different adapters) and it's a bloody pain.

[Saab Dastard]

I find that fixed IP addresses work better in a workgroup wifi environment, particularly with a mixture of kit from different vendors.

There's a nice feature in Windows XP (certainly in pro, possibly in home) that allows you to set DHCP as the preference for IP and DNS settings, but to also set up an "Alternate" configuration, with a fixed IP address (NOT APIPA), for when the PC can't obtain DHCP address.

In your situation, you could assign fixed IP addresses to the 2 desktop PCs, DHCP with fixed IP addresses as alternates for the 2 portables, and then switch off the DHCP server on the Netgear.

That would allow the portables to receive DHCP addresses on other, DHCP enabled, networks but use the fixed addresses on your home network.

That's the config. I still have on my work laptop.

SD

[Mike-Bracknell]

Aha - this is a bit of a specialist subject for me....

If the N110 isn't getting a DHCP address when connected to the specific wifi, have you tried....

- Changing the authentication method the wifi uses. There's some NIC incompatibilities out there with the way encrypted authentication over wifi works. If you (temporarily) remove wifi authentication from the AP, does the N110 manage to connect and get an IP address?
- Updating the firmware on the Netgear? there's regular updates on the support site, and you might find that the code relating to the authentication on wifi in the Netgear has changed.

I would state that after 2 solid (and boring) years of designing Nortel's global DHCP rollout to a quarter of a million nodes, that if a client's not performing DHCP then there's likely to be something more significantly wrong with the link than purely that.

[mad_jock]

2 solid (and boring) years of designing Nortel's global DHCP rollout to a quarter of a million nodes

Bloody hell I would have been into pencils up my nose saying wibble within 2 months.

[mad_jock]

The best way of seeing whats happening is to use a sniffer to see whats going on.

Sometimes its a 50/50 if its the client thats a bit squiffy not accepting the DHCP lease or there is routing issues to the DHCP server.

From whats been written I suspect it is an update which has come down to the N110 which has screwed with the DHCP aquire on it.

[mcdhu]

Netgear router firmware is up to date and all updates on the N110 are set to 'auto' (because teenagers are not too good at housekeeping!!).

So, gents, what do you reckon - in simple terms.

Will try disable/enable in the devices mgr later - because at the moment, it's working ok!!! But, happily, it wouldn't get an IP address when on the PC World's wifi network. They suggest giving it to them to restore factory settings and if it still doesn't work - back to samsung (after the end of term!)

Regards all
mcdhu

[Saab Dastard]

As I said before - use fixed IP addresses.

Why waste time and energy on getting DHCP to work when there is such a simple alternative?

SD

[Mike-Bracknell]

mcdhu, what was the result of you temporarily removing the security from the wireless network? Did the connection behave properly?

Also, what's the model of the Netgear?

Cheers,
Mike.

[mcdhu]

Mike, its the ubiquitous DG834Gv3. Because it's working (today), I'm reluctant to do anything and propose to wait until it doesn't 'connect' and then try it. But I didn't understand the term 'AP'. So do I simply remove the WEP key from the Router - does this have any effect on the other devices which will still have it in their settings?

Mad Jock, do you mean turn off Windows auto updates and then uninstall/reinstall the Atheros drivers?

SD - logic dictates that using a fixed IP address should work, but I'd need someone who knows what they are doing leaning over my shoulder. I do have the odd pal who would help so I might go there if I can pluck up the courage!!

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions; my son is amazed at the help available from those he regards as 'staunch aviators'!!

[mad_jock]

yep you got it.

Then every month check what the updates are and install the sensible ones.

If all the others are talking to the wireless router and obtaining an IP address I am 99% sure its the N110 giving you grief.

I wouldn't be to sure a fixed IP address will work if the network driver is squiffy you would be very lucky if it only effected the DHCP aquire functionality.

Actually if you go into the netgear you should be able to see if its even sending out a request for a lease in the logs.

[Saab Dastard]

mcdhu, "AP" = access point = your Netgear.

does this have any effect on the other devices which will still have it in their settings?

Yes, you would need to set the wireless configuration for each wifi device to open, and set it back again after testing, including re-entering the pre-shared key (PSK). I find that copying the key into a text file and storing it on each computer that requires it saves a lot of typing!

That may be because I use a very strong pass phrase, which I achieve by typing a word to generate a WEP key, which I then use as the PSK for WPA.

I notice you mention WEP as the encryption method you use - be advised that it is by far the weakest, being of little more value than wet tissue paper against any attack.

In order of decreasing strength: WPA2 > WPA (AES) > WPA (TKIP) > WEP.

Not all network devices support WPA (AES) reliably, however, and older network devices won't support WPA2 at all.

I am 100% with Mad Jock on the MS updates issue - particularly for hardware updates. I would recommend that you never, ever install a hardware driver update from MS. IMHO, you should only install new drivers from the hardware vendor's website.

SD

ps - I have removed the posts relating to my unedifying spat with Mike Bracknell. Apologies for disrupting the signal-to-noise ratio.

[Mike-Bracknell]

does this have any effect on the other devices which will still have it in their settings?
Yes, you would need to set the wireless configuration for each wifi device to open, and set it back again after testing, including re-entering the pre-shared key (PSK). I find that copying the key into a text file and storing it on each computer that requires it saves a lot of typing!

However, we're still in 'problem discovery' mode, so if you can live with changing the "wireless settings\security options" on the DG834Gv3 to "disable" for 5 minutes whilst then trying to connect with the N110, you can see whether it'll get an IP address and then can re-set all your security settings back to what they were after that period.

(although I would reiterate what the grand poobah of PPRuNe has said about your use of WEP. You will have at least the option of WPA-PSK on the DG834G, and you should use it.....if the rest of the devices you wish to be wireless can connect, of course!)

Therefore, the summary being, if you can connect properly with no wifi security enabled on both the DG834G and the N110, it's going to be a driver issue with the Atheros chipset in your laptop.

I would urge you, if successful, to try enabling WPA-PSK on the DG834G with a passphrase of at least 8 characters and connecting via the N110. This would then show you that you could migrate the rest of your wifi-enabled devices on your LAN to WPA-PSK.

(a little note - I've come across this issue twice in the last year, and both times it was fixable by upgrading the NIC drivers or firmware. Neither was on an N110 though, but both were Atheros against a DG834Gv3).

[mixture]

with a passphrase of at least 8 characters

8 RANDOM characters
(to include minimum one of each type : lowercase, uppercase,number,special char)

Not much point telling him to switch from WEP if he's still going to expose himself to a simple dictionary attack.

Also if using WPA, because it's used as part of the cryptographic process, you would be wise to disable SSID broadcast and change the default SSID, preferably to something non-obvious.

(one of many useful places you can find 8 random characters.... https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm)

[mcdhu]

Ok - I get it gents. I'll proceed as you suggest.

Off to the sim for a few days for some peace and quiet.

Many thanks for all the inputs - sorry to have sparked the 'spat'!!

Cheers
mcdhu

[mad_jock]

That wasn't a spat in IT admin terms.

Just a mild teddy out the pram moment between 2 folk that operate in different perversions who have common knowledge and slightly different prespectives on the same theme.

No admin passwords were changed or MAC address banned from accessing the network. So it was an amusing teddy bear chuckling session nothing more.

A real spat involves tech libary CD's getting used as lethal throwing weapons and server room emergency pocket air bottles getting inserted where the sun doesn't shine.

[Mike-Bracknell]

You calling me perverse?

Come, venture into my halon-protected server room. There's not many of these around any more. Fancy a light?

<locks door>
:E



/Seriously, I hope your wifi issues get sorted shortly.

[mad_jock]

Any one that has delt with DNS bind for 2 years and who proberly doesn't have to open the book everytime they edit the files complies with the full dictionary definition of pervert.

Yep thankfully those days are gone now. Working in a smelly room with aload of mainframe sandle cord wearing perverts who all seemed to have irritable bowel syndrome. Their bowels might not have irritated them but they sure as hell irritated everyone else.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Yes, on second thoughts it's probably best not to talk about naked flames near IBS sufferers.

Sandals with brown socks, beige cords, and you forgot the red jumper. That's de rigeur. :8

[cats_five]

<snip>
Sandals with brown socks, beige cords, and you forgot the red jumper. That's de rigeur. :8

Don't forget the balding head, long greying hair in a pony tail and straggly beard. :yuk:

[Keef]

Hey - do you know him too? Last time I saw him was in our server room.

[Saab Dastard]

Note to self:

Shave off beard, cut hair short, burn the sandals, give the red jumper to charity (if they'll take it), throw out the cords...

SD

[mcdhu]

........to cut a long story short, the Netbook in question went back to Samsung who kindly did a 'Full Reinstall'. I think that has fixed it. Hence, everything is gone! No problem - the work was all backed up to a stick; the only thing I can't now fix easily is to reinstall Office 2003. The disc and key are long gone.

My question is, I have the same Office 03 on my trusty dell laptop. Is it possible to retrieve the key from there and to then download Office 03 from somewhere?

I guess the other 2 options are to buy Student Office 08 or 10, but there are compatibility problems with Office 03, I believe; or to use Open Office - are there any compatibility between Office 03 and Open Office - particularly in Word?

Any ideas please,
Many thanks
mcdhu

[Mike-Bracknell]

Keyfinder | Magical Jelly Bean (http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/)

(however, yet again a free app when I last looked has morphed into a "gimme cash" app. Despite that, you should only need the free one to find an Office 2003 key).

[mad_jock]

Personally I haven't had any problems with open office. But i wouldn't say i was a high powered user.

I use both the word and spreadsheet to open and produce stuff and have never had issues with other people not being able to open the document.