Anyone else still waiting for their screening costs to be refunded by Hainan?

[NightSun]

I had a screening with HNA end Marrch, and am still waiting for the money to be refunded. Total cost is close to £1000.

After the event the agency told me that it is normal practice with China to wait for months for the money. Anyone else had any experiences?

[rubik101]

No, but I'm waiting for my return flight to UK from Asia, 3 weeks of expenses and £300.00 for the useless Indian visa I bought when promised a job with Air India Express over a year ago. Asked Rishworth and they tell me it's not their problem, which is probably true. But the £2000.00 is more than I can afford. If Air India Express offer you a job, get an advance!
Contacting them directly just gets you ignored. Very polite of them.

[Taltop]

good that you started that!!! China, India are 3rd world countries when you do anything for these airlines make sure they give you the flight ticket and expenses in advance:ok:.
Any money you pay is gone forever :ugh: :ugh: :ugh::*:*:*

[NightSun]

Thanks for the reply Taltop. Just for the record I am still waiting for the money, and it is now four months since my trip.

I was told (by the chief pilot 737 fleet HNA,) that they only have 10 expat pilots on the 737 out of a total complement of over 800 pilots. Maybe if they reimbursed people for their trips, then they would be a bit more proactive in their prescreening selection and not waste so many peoples time. As things stand at the moment pretty much every agency with a website and a phoneline is recruiting for the Chinese market, as there is no cost involved to the airlines. (Shenzen notwithstanding, they are quick with reimbursement.

[dustyprops]

The pay to fly curse strikes again! Why do people continue to tumble into this trap! Whether it's a type rating, plane ticket to china, visa's or whatever. When are people gonna learn. If you wanna throw money away, give it to me! If an airline wants to hire you, you shouldn't have to pay for anything! I never had nor will i ever.

[fullforward]

Couldn't agree more with you.
We lost respect and consideration from the airlines cause well sell ourselves very cheap. There are thousands of newbies that would give an arm to get strapped to a shinny jet...just a fact.:=

[Taltop]

I always wanted to find someone like you "shinyprop" someone who never ever paid anything and is flying as Captain a big jet:ok::ok::ok::ok:

I paid everything from the paper-airplane to the jet, from the PPL to the ATP and all type-ratings.

Don't mix it up a type-rating is an investment in your education level and it always pays back as long as you are a "good pilot".

Unfortunately with China and India and ..... more and more junk airlines are on the market and more and more junk agencies with no idea what they need to look for.

As far as I understood there was a interview at Hainan for a B737 which should have been a serious hiring process as you can expect a serious airline but it was not and that is exactly my experience so shame on the
airline or agency and not on a type-rated professional Pilot that is looking for a serious job.

Thanks for the understanding maybe I see you soon on that big jet:ok::ok:
:ok::ok:

[break_break]

It's actually bad enough that guys are paying (Note 1) for their rating to get to the front seats. And now, with the desperation that clouds the obvious that an AFTER interview reimbursement was to be tolerated? With 4th world (Note 2) mentality like the majors in China AND India, you ought to get your head examined for even HOPING to get your money back. Google does a lot of wonders, search functions too. It's not too hard to gain some basic knowledge on cultural and local practices in these places.

Note 1: If you have to buy yourself a rating just to qualify yourself an interview, you're helping the beancounters justify their case year by year to the CEOs that they can always get people to P2F. This topic has been argued and trashed to death from time to time. But I do think that it's a total different story if you're HIRED and that a rating is required of you. Like it or not, airlines around the world use different tactics to pin you down. Some get you to buy your own rating, some train you but want you to put a bank guarantee upfront or deduct your monthly pay to recover their training cost.

Note 2: A 3rd world mentality is somewhere that you can still comprehend the rules but abused. A 4th world mentality is that you will be cut and bleed to death without even knowing it till the final moments. It doesn't matter how many times you hear anyone defending the establishments in both these places. They will always NOT learn to be reasonable host to an expat. Too bad we have too many desperate souls out there can't wait to take the chances and be taken for a ride. Otherwise, I think they won't have the choice but to do something about the ridiculously biased policies they have when it comes to foreigner hiring.

[Piltdown Man]

1. Don't send any money.
2. Don't leave without a return ticket.
3. Don't leave without a hotel reservation in your name, charged to the airline.
4. Don't pay to be employed.

When companies are short of nationals to employ, they'll pay the price for recruiting expats. If they are not prepared to pay they are not that desperate, certainly not serious and you'll probably end up getting screwed. So before you cough up anything, think really hard - Do these people really want you?

My experience? Well some time ago I was employed by a Belgian company (Euro Direct Belgie NV, part of a company called then called Skyservice based in Kortrijk EBKT). They were bloody marvellous and excellent people to work for.

PM

PS. I've even heard of some scumbags putting out small job ads. so their kids could get lots of lovely international stamps for their collections.

[jetopa]

I couldn't agree more with the Piltdown Man. Just follow these simple advises and you won't be ripped off! Any decent company will pre-pay airline tickets, hotels etc..

Under 'Business and GA' there is a thread about a Falcon 2000 pilot with apparently similar experiences in Hong Kong. Seems that this is not an airline exclusive...

[Firestorm]

Piltdown Man. Like your advice very succinct and concise. Could you repost it on the Sama thread in the Middle East Forum?

[Taltop]

coming back to the real purpose of this, Hainan is still looking for expats and there is a chance to get the expenses back it may take some time and if they cannot fill the positions they need to come back to the pilots they screened already.
Keep on trying and send some e-mails time by time to remind them I am sure when they try to hire you then you are flying for another company
and you just ask them to refund you before you say that you are not anymore available for China.
Good luck, I am trying since 2 years to get my expenses but I can wait :zzz:
you always meet them twice the first time they are in a better position :ouch: and the second time ........ :ok:

[6000PIC]

Taltop , let`s hope your grasp of aviation is better than your grasp of the English language.

[Pin Head]

what agency are they using? what fleets were they looking for?
Thank you

[Brookfield Abused]

Who sent you, i.e. which Agency?
Maybe you can Post what they wrote exactly so we see the kind of wording they are deceiving us all?
Did you sign an pre-Agreement or similar?
Were you successful at the Selection?
If yes, did you decline the offer?

What do you have in writing from the Agent regarding re-imbursement; when, where, how much, how fast?

Most likely you were so excited about the Interview and possible job placement that you ignored/forgot to check the fine-print or get all the facts. Thus your unfortunate situation now which is not a one-timer.

Good luck. PM if you need help from us.

[dustyprops]

Taltop,

Why are you targeting the india and china markets if the jobs are 'junk' as you put it and agencies are ripping you off!?!?!?

If you are indeed a "type rated professional pilot that is looking for a serious job" why not look to the middle east. There are hundreds of empty right hand seats crying out to be filled. And....drum roll please....you don't have to pay j@ck sh!t.

I'm not sure i'll be seeing you anytime soon will I.

[Taltop]

dusty , yes you will I am left seat soon A380 see Yah

not having 6000 PIC lot of hours , grasp , yes , I am from puerto rico, english bad, level 6, no ploblem,

airline China and India good, agencies good, no ploblem too

all the best fellows :ok::ok::ok::ok::D

[Taltop]

good luck :oh:

[dustyprops]

Ha Ha Ha, keep your sense of humour mate, always comes in handy. Good luck.

[Kirks gusset]

Has anyone actually been to Hainan or is actually working there? seems we have a load of speculation but no facts on numbers getting through the process let alone the expenses issues. Surely if they expect you to start in 30 days from screening and you haven't seen your expenses, you just don't go back until they pay up? Having given you a flight there and back, a 2 hr sim plus Hotac, they must be semi-serious at least?

[Iver]

Sounds like Hainan is having real problems paying anyone - and it sounds like a JERK airline. No way I would consider working there if I were qualified. Check out their jerk move in a very recent article:

Hondo Flight School Shuts Down

Dispute With Chinese Airline Over Money Closes School

John Honore ([email protected]), KSAT 12 News Reporter

POSTED: Friday, July 30, 2010
UPDATED: 6:23 pm CDT July 30, 2010

HONDO, Texas -- Wright Flyers Aviation has operated only a few months at the Hondo airport.
http://www.pprune.org/sh/images/ibs_icon/post/video.gifWatch John Honore's Report (http://www.pprune.org/video/24457957/index.html)

However, the San Antonio Express News has reported that Wright Flyers' primary client, Hainan Airlines, a Chinese commercial carrier, hasn't paid more than $1 million in fees for training pilots for FAA certification. As a result, Wright Flyers has suspended operations and laid off more than four-dozen employees.

Hondo is not a big town. So when a company like this shuts down, it has a big effect on the local economy. "It's a big economic blow to us," said Jim Danner, mayor of Hondo. "We hope that we'll be able to retain a flying school here but it's been a big economic boost to the community. A lot of jobs. A lot of retail shopping. Our apartments, many of them are rented by the students or the instructors. It will be a blow if we lose the school."
There is hope that an agreement will be reached between the two sides. The Chinese pilots who were being trained continue to live in the town.
"If they had left after the first day after the closure, I think that we would all been a lot more worried than we are right now," said Wade Smith, manager of the Hondo Chamber of Commerce.

Smith is confident that Wright Flyers will resume operations even if an agreement can't be reached. "All of the reasons that they came out here in the first place are still here. We still have open airspace west of town. They have the run of the place over at our airport." If the flight school doesn't come back, Danner doesn't feel the loss of an employer will be permanent.


"The hanger they're in, we renovated and feel very confident that we'll have another client for it within a short period of time. Copyright 2010 by KSAT.com ([email protected]) All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[SixPin]

Does anyone know what references Hainan ask for?

[Kirks gusset]

Pevious two employers plus a ref for the CAAC from the body that issue your licence.

[SixPin]

Hi Kirks gusset:)
Thanks for that. My last lot, are a miserable bunch, they will only give the very basic* reference and never any more.
*……. was employed from ……. to…… END.:ugh:
That’s it! That’s all they ever give, to anyone.
Do you think Hainan will have a problem with this? If so, I could be wasting my time.
:bored:

[Kirks gusset]

Im not qualified to say, but that should be fine. They will pick your log book to bits as well. I think there may well be easier jobs around with more considerate airlines, or maybe its just a China thing.

[John Wayne]

Screening cost is only refunded is you get the job unless you suggest them you will go your country´s pilots union to spread the information (it worked once fast)

[737XL Pilot]

It seems to be depending on the agency you use. The one I used refunded my ticket costs within days of me returning from China. They have to wait for Hainan to refund them but recognise the fact that we don't want to be out of pocket. In China everything was paid for, hotel, taxis etc by Hainan....

[Avenger]

IF you use BROOKFIELD, forget it! they will tell you whatever lies they like to get you there and then hide behind a catalog of excuses. My advice would be forget Hainan, even if you pass the sim and medical it takes months to get anything arranged and many trips back and forth. There are much better options in Europe now.