Ok Honest advice please

[vortexadminman]

Ok I am a pilot type. Step daughters boyfriend is mad on becoming an ENG. He can't go pilot due to colour blindness. I am saying to him go do OASC for ENG then join as a non com get some time in and then apply for commision. Am I right in my advise or am I talking bollocks. Any ENG O s or people in that world out there as I would appreciate some pointers. I am only working of own experiences of most of the line ENG O s I have met, the best have always been ex rankers. Not wanting to piss of direct entry ENG O s but as I said in my time and my little opinion the ones I have met have been ex line guys.

[Shack37]

Surely colour blindness would also hinder engineering possibilities. Colour coding of wiring is one example that comes to mind.

[Jobza Guddun]

Not necessarily shack, I know a rigger and a sooty (sorry, mech now) who are colour blind. Don't think fairies can be colour blind though, for a start they'd be no good at Uckers.

As a serving techy, I agree fully with Gilbert's assertions about ex-rankers and DEs.

Vortex, tell him to do what he'd enjoy the most. Life's too short.

[Shack37]

Not necessarily shack, I know a rigger and a sooty (sorry, mech now) who are colour blind. Don't think fairies can be colour blind though, for a start they'd be no good at Uckers.


In my day the sooties were "fitters" and had to recognise that the fuel was dyed green before siphoning from shack to banger:E

[PumpCockMixMags]

Engineer Offr is a very diverse branch with some rewarding appointments. Dont listen to some of the anti EngO Boll@x on here, very few non EngOs have a clue about the job or responsibility involved.

BGG is quite correct though, most EngOs couldnt and shouldnt understand cable colours etc, they have specialists to do that for them. 60-70% of an EngOs task is management. The rest is made up of other tasks that may require an element of technical knowledge.

I jumped from the ranks not because I couldnt "make the jump from Corporal to Sergeant and end up taking the easier route of commissioning" but because firstly, the pay is higher and the pension far greater and secondly, the level of responsibility is far greater because often the buck stops with you. Also the thought of wearing crimpolene and clothes from C&A scared me.

Engineer training will prepare the lad well enough and the Sqn WO or the shift techie Flight Sergeant will help him with the rest on his first tour. Airman service will only delay him and given the competitivness for promotion these days, the longer he leaves it, the less chance he may have to get a plumb SEngO job somewhere. Also, airman service may prove to be a negative influence on him given the amount of anti-officer feelings that still exists in the ranks (normally started by the bitter JNCO/SNCO fraternity).

BTW, Ex rankers generally make the best and worst EngOs, DEs kinda fill the gap between.

Hope this helps, PM me if you want any further info

PCMM:)

[Mr C Hinecap]

If the lad has the aptitude for commissioning, then he should do that and not spend valuable years not being commissioned. Whilst many will tout the greatness of the ex-ranker, I'm sure most would agree with the above - get on as high as you can and keep going.

[WPH]

If your measure of success is getting promoted, then with an Eng degree he should go straight in as an EngO, why waste time? I'm a DE Eng but have met good and bad DEs and Ex-rankers. Personally, I don't think there is really a lot of difference. Afterall, an EngOs job is mainly man management and application of common sense, whilst trying to keep both the engineers and aircrew happy! More life experience/ an understanding of the hands-on tasks and being a little older seems to generally make Ex-rankers good JOs. However, they are often time-limited from reaching the higher ranks. Either way, as PCMM points out, competition to Sqn Ldr right now is tough and there is a bottleneck, which I'm sure that the SDSR will not help - so he needs to know, unless he's a star, he's likely to spend quite some time as a JO!

[SpannerSpinner]

Honest advice? Right well if he's set on becoming an EngO then I would say go for it straight away. I joined the RAF as a DE EngO having had a little bit of time in civvie street and have loved every minute. Completely agree with PCMM and don't listen to half the b#llox about who makes a better EngO, DE or ex-ranker. I've seen plenty of good and bad examples from both fraternities. The comment about "not being able to make the jump from Cpl to Sgt so took a commission" did make me chuckle though. IMHO it's all about the individual and nothing about background. If he wants to climb the rank ladder, straight in at commission would be the way forward. In this current climate, you can't be too sure how easy it would be to go for a commission from the ranks in a few years time. To be honest, I would speak to the AFCO as I've heard a number of rumours wrt a serious reduction in EngO recruitment, it's always best to get the info from the experts, not arm chair generals or barrack-room lawyers! One word of caution with the AFCO but I'm sure you'll be aware of this already. Don't let them push him in a certain direction. They have quotas to fill at times and can, sometimes, make other career paths look dazzling just to try and get the required bums on seats. So he needs to stick to his guns! I remember being amazed at some of the guys coming to my Flt as the new AMMs. Degrees and experience galore (one was a fashion degree, granted). After a quick chat they soon realised that perhaps they had been steered in the wrong direction. Good luck and I hope you get some sound and informed advice.

SpannerSpinner

[Safeware]

Re Colour blindness, the only time I came across any issue with it was as regards someone who was up for a job on a Tornado GR1 unit, but couldn't because he was colour blind and hence couldn't be a UCO.... ie sign off on Special Wepons work. So unlikely that it is an issue now.

BGG, you may know him as he ended up on 51 Snoop Group, and then the Reds :)

regards ex-rankers and time to get anywhere, Nick Kurth has done well for himself from being an armourer.

sw

[ZuluMike]

One more thing: once he has joined the ranks, if he wants to get Commissioned he has to get his chain of command to sign the forms endorsing him as suitable, not always a given. As someone who has seen several troops get Commissioned, I also think that the process is often harder than getting Commissioned straight from civvie street - OASC expects more of people who have been in the Service for a while.

The best EngOs I've worked with have been ex-rankers - but also the worst! If he's capable he'll be good, however he gets in.

[glad rag]

One more thing: once he has joined the ranks, if he wants to get Commissioned he has to get his chain of command to sign the forms endorsing him as suitable, not always a given. As someone who has seen several troops get Commissioned, I also think that the process is often harder than getting Commissioned straight from civvie street

Probably the best advice so far, good luck to the lad.

[Pontius Navigator]

glad rag, concur. That also applies in IOT.

[jamier]

My sengo at work is an ex ranker and one of the soundest officers ive met to date!

[12 twists per inch]

On the A330 FSTA, the power of engineering decisions will be passed to the SNCO B1 or B2 licensed engineer who will be the be all and end all of airworthyness. In this small sector of RAF engineering the roles will be very much reversed with the EngO focussing on RAF policy and leave passes :} As the LAE has the power of fly or 'no fly' certification, I'm sure many battles of wills will endure. This will be an interesting time for the AT fleet as CAA regs are adopted.