Ferrying Single Pilot Citation

[Jay_solo]

Has anyone ferried a Citation 525 or 500 series across the atlantic single pilot?

[hollingworthp]

Insurance could be interesting.

[Pace]

Jay

Is this a general question as a 525 and 500 series are different aircraft.

You obviously dont have a particular aircraft to ferry? If you have the ferry experience required and correct licences there is no reason why you shouldnt do the ferry single pilot in a single pilot aircraft.

Pace

[Jay_solo]

When I said 500, I mean't the SP version.

[hawker750]

I should imagine it has been done hundreds of times, I do not understand the question, just like doing it in a cessna 172 but a million times easier

[Jay_solo]

"I do not understand the question, just like doing it in a cessna 172 but a million times easier"

Simply, I asked the question to find out if anyone has done it before. I dont just assume people do, so thats why I asked.

And despite the aircraft being certified for 1 pilot, your still flying over large stretches of water, scarce mountainous terrain with very changeable weather. Single pilot IFR in a 172 is challenging enough, so single pilot IFR while travelling in a jet in inclement weather would be tougher. So I was thinking that depending on the nature of the flight, insurance companies might require particular experience criteria to be met, or a suitably qualifed safety pilot (SIC rating) tag along. Or maybe it might be good airmanship to have a second pair of eyes and hands.

Hence I was hoping to get in touch with someone who has actually flown the route single pilot, to get some more information on it.

[CL300]

i have done it many times even with pax...plane does not know that you fly over water though...If not properly equipped blue spruce route and this is it..

Wick. Reykyavick, Kulusuk,Gothab (ou nassasuarq) Goose...finito.. the spruce route is north of this though
Like in any plane do not strech the legs...
No sweat..

[NuName]

How you work out that being in a jet would be tougher than being in a 172 is beyond me. For this reason I suggest you definitely get some advice, it sounds like you need it. In my opinion there is never a good reason not to have another competant pilot on board.

[Jay_solo]

Nu name


How you work out that being in a jet would be tougher than being in a 172 is beyond me. For this reason I suggest you definitely get some advice, it sounds like you need it. In my opinion there is never a good reason not to have another competant pilot on board.

Right, your starting to drift off topic. But let me make a point to you, I am NOT here to discuss a C172 across the atlantic! My original question referenced a Cessna Citation, flying single pilot. The three main obvious advantages a Citation has over a C172 over the atlantic is performance, range and cruising altitude. And if you think flying single pilot C172 is harder than single pilot jet, YOU need to get some advice.

Any jet is obviously faster, more complex (meaning more things can go wrong) and is nowhere near as forgiving as a Cessna 172 in a critical emergency situation. The two things they both have in common is that both planes were born in Kansas, and they can't swim!

And I say again, I asked the question to find out who has done it and hopefully they can gives some insight into their experience of ferry flying it over the routes across the north atlantic.

For everyone else who posted, on topic, thanks. I'll leave it as that.

[NuName]

Your the one who was commenting on a 172/jet scenario so dont accuse me of thread drift. Ferrying an aircraft over the Atlantic would be far harder in a 172 than a jet, I doubt I could stay awake long enough in a 172 let alone anything else. A Citation is just about the easiest aircraft I have ever flown, not to mention the level of equipment that comes with it compared to a spam can. Having done the North Atlantic route many times I see no reason why it should not be done single pilot, only boring. If YOU want to give me some advice then please go ahead, I'm all ears, although I will help you out a bit, doing a circuit in a 172 would probably be easier than in a Citation, marginly, anything else, no way, 525 or 500 series.

[Jay_solo]

Nu Name Thanks a mil for your "advice", much appreciated, have a round of applause :D

CJ Boy, thanks for sharing that, I had no problem with your earlier comment, I should have specified which 500 series in my opening question.

Thanks anyway everyone.

[Pace]

Jay

I have flown many twin piston hours and like another poster I find the Citation Easier.

Having said that I have never done the crossing single pilot but would rather the citation single pilot high above all the weather than down in the crud in a single or piston twin.

My last trip was in a Citation S2 which has an extra hour range than the Citation 2 meaning Goose bay direct Iceland and that one I took all the way down to South Africa.

Pace

[PPRuNe Towers]

Surely there's only one way to settle this?:}

[ian andrews]

Jay solo
You have a pm

[deefer dog]

The workload and adrenalin flow is much less in any jet accross the pond...multicrew or single crew, and like thousands of others I have crossed the atlantic solo in a variety of Citations. I'm no longer brave enough to do it in a single piston engine type.

[Martin Barnes]

done it many times in b200 cj525 and c208

if you cant fly goose to kef direct do not leave either if the met in narsarawak

is poor even if it means you loose a day.

do not fly across at night even if you have the range, because if you loose one or the cabin you are fuxxxxxxed

flying it single crew is not an issue if you are insureable on the route.

if you crash in the sea or the ice cap you will die so dont bother with rafts or suits just take you ipod

[johns7022]

I had 6 SP waivers...and looked at flying an Ultra to Scotland..that's with people...didn't have the range for the tracks...so every time I looked at the trip, it all seemed to come down to the weather being nice in Iceland..

Either way it looked doable, but a little sketchy and there is no way I am telling the boss, that he is fuxxxed if we don't get in...so there had to be outs...alternates...and also by the time I got to the East coast, it would be night....

I don't think the trip is a joke if your trying to be safe...but it really doesn't matter...get to Europe, no single pilot ops....

[DownIn3Green]

Jay...Do you even know what a NAT TRACK is or the BLUE SPRUCE route is????

Didn't think so...

Who are ypu planning to do your flight plan and handling enroute???

Single Pilot is the least of your worries....

Take a hint from the posts above and turn the trip down...

[julian_storey]

And despite the aircraft being certified for 1 pilot, your still flying over large stretches of water, scarce mountainous terrain with very changeable weather. Single pilot IFR in a 172 is challenging enough, so single pilot IFR while travelling in a jet in inclement weather would be tougher.

I've done the trip single pilot in SEP aircraft and also in King Airs.

It's a piece of cake in a King Air but takes a LOT more thought in a non de iced, unpressurised SEP.

My guess would be that it's even easier in a jet up above most of the weather ;)

[NuName]

Anyone making further comments on this thread might have a better understanding of the original post if you look at solo's previous posts.

[wwelvaert]

I've done several North Atlantic crossings in light aircraft, not (yet) in Citations. I don't see any reason why it would be particularly difficult in a Citation - with proper planning of course. If the airplane doesn't have HF radio, NAT MNPS or RVSM, you can go CYFB - BGSF - BIKF and on to the UK below FL280.

[desertrat69]

Hi Jay

Yes I have operated a CJ1 across the pond on a regular basis for about 4 years both single pilot and two pilot. What CJ will you be flying? The main issue was needing to climb fast (which on ISA +17 days was extremely difficult!) to get to altitude out of everyone's way. Which way you going E-W or W-E?

KR

DR

[Shanwick Shanwick]

I ferried a C500 from Arkansas to Biggin a few years back and it's not as easy as it sounds.

The 500's generally have neither RVSM or MNPS capability and don't have the altitude capability to operate above RVSM levels.

The range of an unmodified aircraft makes it impossible to fly Goose direct to BIKF/BIRK and I flew CYFB-BGSF-BIRK as even Goose to Narsarsuaq is pushing it a bit.

Insurance wasn't an issue and I didn't bother with a dinghy as it was February and as previously mentioned, survivability is unlikely.

[johns7022]

I was wondering when someone was going to say it..

First off, when I land in Canada as a single pilot captain, hopping out of a Citation, line service looks at me funny 'wheres your copilot'...and I supposed to believe that if I touch down in France...they won't have a problem with single pilot ops in a Citation?

I looked at trip in an Ultra...didn't have the range for the tracks...and I didn't want to guess at trying to get in and out of Iceland...

I haven't done the trip, so I can't speak from experience, but the more I looked at it...with people, single pilot...it just didn't seem straight forward.....

[galaxy flyer]

Except for the Citation X, none of the them have the speed for the tracks, either. Any Citations crossing would have to be above or below on random routes or routing north thru BGGL or south thru Santa Maria, if you can do CYQX to LPLA.