Flybe?

[gg190]

My step-dad has been talking to a Flybe pilot today who told him that Flybe are desperately seeking pilots willing to work based out of the Isle of Man, as they have very few pilots willing to work here (It's viewed as something of a backwater!).

I was brought up in the conversation, and even though I don't have a CPL yet, this pilot mentioned it may still be worth contacting Flybe as they may be able to give some assistance toward the qualifications I still need to get. He said it was best to contact somebody local on the Isle of Man (he even gave a name).

I took the above with a pinch of salt, I've been looking at becoming a commercial pilot since I was 15, and I am well aware that sponsorship does not exist these days, I was also sceptical about the 'local contact' part, do Flybe even handle any recruitment on the Isle of Man? I also couldn't find a single contact number for Flybe on the Isle of Man either on their website or the IOM airport website.

It just doesn't sound right to me, had it been anybody but a pilot working for company saying it I would dismissed it immediately, but I thought why would he have said if he didn't have something to base it on?

Anybody heard anything similar? Or is this (as I suspect) somebody getting the wrong end of a stick!

Thanks

[autopilot_off]

I'm affriad this sounds like someone who thinks they're still working for Jersey European! All recruitment is handled through HQ at Exeter and unfortunately personal contacts are of very limited use.

I can assure you there's a good few hundred people in the hold pool who would happily work out of the IOM if it got them in the right hand seat of the Dash!

On the bright side, Flybe do indeed run some sponsorship schemes through FTE, OAA, Cabair and PTC which you may well like to investigate... Good luck!

[gg190]

Auotpilot_off, thanks for the reply I thought that would be the case!

I've looked at the sponsorship schemes in the past and as far as I can remember I am ineligible for them as I am no longer 'ab-initio'.

[G SXTY]

Flybe have absolutely no problem finding 200hr CPLs who will go anywhere for a first job - even Fraggle Rock. Persuading them to stay there long term is more of a challenge, but IOM residency alone is unlikely to get your CV to the top of the pile.

And autopilot off is right, not even recommendations from friends or family within the company are much use these days. Recruitment is all handled by one small department, and for low-hours applicants the only recommendations they are interested in are ones from flying schools.

[EK4457]

Which is surely a good thing!

G SXTY - any inside info on any Flybe recruitment?

Thanks
EK

[Coffin Corner]

There certainly isn't a "few hundred" pilots in the main hold pool. But what there is, is a few hold pools. There is a hold pool with 200hr/experienced pilots in it (Mr Layman from the street if you like). Then there is a hold pool for sponsored cadets, there is a hold pool for the MPL students, then there will be a pool for the impending Thomas Cook cadets.

As for recruitment, nothing any time soon.

CC

[G SXTY]

Latest from rumour control is that there are a couple of type rating courses planned for later this year, which will presumably be made up of MPLs and sponsored / mentored CPLs. Very unlikely to include anyone not on this list (i.e. everyone else).

Don't expect any significant recruitment for the foreseeable future (whatever that is). However, when the market does eventually improve, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mass exodus. An awful lot of FOs (not to mention captains) will be free of their bonds and have enough hours and experience to go off and fly something nicer and better paid than their current equipment. Some people are already looking at the sandpit and doing the calculations.

When the likes of BA, Easyjet and the charter airlines start looking for experienced but non-type rated pilots, expect Flybe to be recruiting low-houred people within a few months.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Actually I don't see easyJet (or Ryanair) EVER hiring an experienced FlyBe pilot ever again (wish they would I like 'em).


The old model is dead.


WWW

[G SXTY]

Not sure many ever went to O'Leary Air. Not my idea of a step up. ;)

I hope you're wrong about Easy, I really do. I guess time will tell.

[portsharbourflyer]

G_Sxty,

The Easyjet TRSS scheme which was the way in for those with at least 500 hours multi crew experience on heavy TPs or light jets but without medium Jet Experience has been closed for some time. This does suggest that recent recruitment at Easyjet is experienced A320 crews from Agencies and low hour pay to fly cadets from either CTC and OAA. If this trend continues then it seems WWW is right.

[flyhighspeed300]

I did some work experence with flybe ops at exeter last year. (end of 2009) Flybe recruitment told me they get over 300 pilots applying to them every month.

Yes the person is correct about the Isle of Man with a low amount of pilots. The reason for this is because this is 1 of 2 places where you do your line training with them after getting a TR at flight safety international at farnbourgh airport.

After doing your line training with flybe you can be posted else where which most pilot chose to do. I think but could be wrong its 300 hrs line training on a q400.

basically pilots come and go from the isle of man, thats why there is always a shortage. The ops recruitment can choose at any time to recuit more pilots.

[dwshimoda]

I think but could be wrong its 300 hrs line training on a q400.

Yes - you are wrong, so why post something that you do not know to be fact?

For a start, it's usually a number of sectors, not hours, and secondly, that's a hell of a lot more "hours" / sectors than we look for on the B757.

[Coffin Corner]

It's 40 sectors if it's your first type. Not sure if that's a JAR limitation or airline specific :)

[dwshimoda]

It's 40 sectors if it's your first type. Not sure if that's a JAR limitation or airline specific

Yep. Airline specific.

Can't understand why people bother to post such stuff when they don't actually know. If you do, contribute, if you don't don't - stop spreading ill-founded rumours.

[lander66]

gg190,

I was just wondering if you at least made the phone call, you never know what they might say (even though it is probably, "have a look on the Flybe careers website"). Even if you don't gain any better employment prospects from the call, at least you may get a decent inside contact.

[Coffin Corner]

If you call Flybe on the phone the only thing you'll achieve is to p*** them off. :=

[gg190]

I was just wondering if you at least made the phone call, you never know what they might say (even though it is probably, "have a look on the Flybe careers website"). Even if you don't gain any better employment prospects from the call, at least you may get a decent inside contact.

No I didn't primarily because it is made very clear on the Flybe website that pilots not meeting their direct entry requirements should contact one of their approved training schools. The only phone number on their website which may have helped me out was for their human resources department, and I didn't think that they would appreciate my call.

If you call Flybe on the phone the only thing you'll achieve is to p*** them off.

This is the second reason I didn't contact them, Flybe strike me as an airline that does not like to be phoned! Even if you're a customer.

[adverse-bump]

i suspect this 300 hour rubbish has come from some pay to fly scheme! I think it says alot about the type of person who goes through with these things that they need 300 hours to pass a line check!

[Desk-pilot]

As I see it Flybe are currently tight for crew, but this situation should ease with the gradual return of Q400 crews as the Greek operation winds down. What I can tell you from the inside is that there are now a number of people planning to hand their notice in because they are off to Emirates/Qatar etc. Whether these numbers prove significant enough to trigger recruitment in the short term I don't know (and I suspect nobody else does either)

Much will depend on how the economic cycle pans out in the next 12 months and how much the sandpit attracts people. My gut feel is that some recruitment will be needed in the next 12 months.

Desk-pilot

[Otto Throttle]

The only phone number on their website which may have helped me out was for their human resources department, and I didn't think that they would appreciate my call

You are quite correct in your assumption - HR have nothing whatsoever to do with pilot recruitment at Flybe.

[Captain Oveur]

Nugget of truth to the 300 hr in IOM comment. There is a tie up with a larger airline in the pipeline to give experience to their cadets whilst recruitment is on hold. They are paid by said airline and are not in the seniority system.

The guys working as cabin crew are now on type rating courses and further recruitment will commence later in the year.

Crews working up to 95hrs a month in some bases this summer so all going well. Great flying!

Oveur:cool:

[gearupflapsupshutup]

are there some FOs going full time to Greece as well? that will reduce the numbers.

[big d1]

There is only going to be a handful of FO's going out to Greece for a full time stint with some spending a bit longer out there than the others. Bear in mind though that the number of Flybe aircraft based out in Greece is reducing now so less crew needed to crew the operation. Overall there is room in the system to let a couple of FO's go to Greece for a long stay although as several others have posted, there are a couple of bases around the network which are working hard, although there are also some that are not.

[Toastal]

There will be no massive void in Flybe pilot staffing over the next couple of years, because the days of the 7 yr cycle in the industry are OVER people!! There will not be mass recruitment and the "old model" has definitely gone FOREVER!!

In any case, when Flybe get more jets (probably embraer 175/190's) over the next 5 yrs,(and they will balance the fleets at some stage) people will stay, particularly skippers who want a jet command.

T:suspect:

[G SXTY]

And I'm sure there'll be a nice big pay rise to go with all those E175s. :p

I mean, they wouldn't want hundreds of FOs building jet hours on £30k a year now, would they? ;)

[big d1]

and we will also get a cheese plate presented to us before each flight on our new E175 :rolleyes:

[Coffin Corner]

The E175 aint happening people. There will be a mass exodus should other airlines recruit, that much is pretty obvious.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

but Farnborough is next week.... if there is news it will be next week...

[Artie Fufkin]

The ubiquitous "mass exodus". Predicted at so many airlines as soon as "recruitment gets going".

Is the 7 year cycle really dead? Check out the dates of 9/11 and Excel going under - both were the formal starting of UK pilot recruitment downturns.

[Finals19]

I sincerely hope this mass exodus happens.

Flybe now seem to have THREE sources of pilot recruitment. 1) The new Thomas Cook scheme 2) The original FTE part sponsored scheme and hold pool 3) The original original (!!) non sponsored hold pool.

I am unfortunate enough to find myself in 3) and have been waiting for a very long time. Obviously 1) and 2) get priority as there is an (in)vested interest for the company.

Very demoralising to be honest. The original hold pool is in effect a stand by pool now. :sad:

[Coffin Corner]

No Finals there are 4 hold pools, you are forgetting the batch of MPL students.

[Atreyu]

I heard rumours of Flybe replacing Dash-8s with the E170/175? Anyone inside heard anything??

[Coffin Corner]

Atreyu

If you can be bothered to read this thread (infact, only a few posts upwards will do) you will find your answer.

[Atreyu]

I was only asking... What is it with people on this website? :ouch: If you didn't want to answer the question I had asked, don't post back :)

[Atreyu]

Sorry I wasted your rather valuable time that you're productively spending policing PPRuNe for etiquette offenders... :ugh:

EDIT

Besides having scanned this entire thread I can't see a black and white answer to my question of "are Flybe replacing the Dash-8s with Embraer 170/175s?"

[Atreyu]

Tin hat to the armed position...

[Atreyu]

"Post #29 says all that needs to be said, the EMB175 isn't happening, I don't know how many more ways you can say the same thing, if you want elaboration on that then we were told "very, very unlikely" because the economics do not add up, the caveat to that is that this is the airline industry, just about anything can happen at any time"

All that was required...

I guess when someone asks a question on the flight deck they get a similar reaction? Rhetorical question no need to answer this time :P

Cheers for the eventual reply though

[Coffin Corner]

No worries ;)

[Atreyu]

PPRuNe is like marmite eh? Love it or Hate it, you still come back for more :P

Peace?

[Coffin Corner]

Spread the love Atreyu, spread the love ;) :ok:

[G SXTY]

PPRuNe is like marmite eh? Love it or Hate it, you still come back for more

A bit like flying the Dash. :E

[choppercopper 99]

And I love flying the dash. As regards to the E170/175 rumour, yes it is doing the rounds around all the bases. However it is just that, a rumour! There is no hard evidence to indicate that it will happen. Time will tell. If I have to wait to see if it happens, so will you!!!!!:ok:

Happy landings

CC99.:O

[Toastal]

Emb 175's/190's are not happening bla bla bla......You guys are unbelievable. If you knew your stuff, then you'd know that the company has made no secret about looking at MANY different JET manufacturers for a possible Dash part-replacement. It's no hidden secret that Mitsubishi/Embraer/Bombardier have all been giving presentations to the Exeter mob over the past couple of months.

Particularly now that a code share with Air France has just been announced today. Flybe are going to need more areoplanes to fly into ORL and CDG from the UK. Now i'm not saying that jets are the future for Flybe, nor is it wishful thinking on my part, but where do you get off saying that it's NEVER going to happen? truly STAGGERING!!!!!!

T:suspect:

[Coffin Corner]

Hmm funny that Toastal.

What I posted was what we were told at an A.R.T course a few weeks ago. But then I supposed you are better informed so maybe we should all listen to you :)

CC

p.s. Where on this entire thread has anyone actually said, and I quote "It's NEVER going to happen"? Now THAT is staggering.

[Coffin Corner]

p.p.s Why would we need more aircraft to fly into ORL & CDG? This is a codeshare agreement, it means Air France passengers can book on our existing route network and visa versa on selected flights, it doesn't mean we'll need more a/c to start operating routes for Air France.

[FANS]

G-60 - good point on the hour building. If you're getting valuable jet time, this should be at a lower payscale to the dash-8.

As a result of the current pilot shortage, the only way into Flybe is via ab initio mentored schemes. These are great (for the FTO and Flybe). This situation may change when the exodus begins however.

[Desk-pilot]

My understanding from the inside is that a variety of options are being evaluated to replace 18 Q400's going back to the lessors in the next couple of years. The Emb 170 and Q400 are being evaluated as potential replacements.

The Q400 burns less fuel but suffers more tech glitches and higher maintenance costs than the Embraers and of course as Flybe extends the ranges it flies now (Verona, Nice, Perpignan, Geneva, Saltzburg) you have to admit that these are beyond the optimum distances for a turoprop and better served by a jet.

I gather that Embraer have indicated they intend to re-wing and re-engine the E-series jets to make them even more fuel efficient from 2016 - indeed the claim is that they could match a Q400 for fuel burn with these (future) wings and engines. It may be that Flybe can negotiate some kind of kickback deal if they take the current spec and upgrade to the later spec in future. Whether this will happen remains to be seen though.

Of course the whole thing might just be a rumour put out by the company to reduce the risk of an impending First Officer mass exodus as the market picks up!! Personally I'd love to see us get more E-jets, I don't think many of us would pine for the Dash if we got the chance to fly an E-jet!!

In this game who knows!

Desk-pilot

[Coffin Corner]

DP exactly.

But apparently even with the rumoured "geared turbofan" the economics of the E-Jet won't be able to match that of the Dash.
The other question about using it on the longer routes is that what are you going to do with it when it isn't flying the longer routes? It's going to have to fly the shorter routes, and probably alot of them. If you based it in a particular base then you can only use it on the long routes that base has, so how are they to be distributed across the network? I have heard the 175 is still too heavy for GCI too so it'll have to avoid there.
Again as we were told, it is very, very unlikely to happen, but as this is the aviation industry then anything can happen at any time.

CC

[Otto Throttle]

Not to mention having to pay a whole extra bunch of pilots jet wages. Not happening any time soon my friends.

[bigjarv]

Just to add, it would still be a two fleet operation in terms of type ratings (170-195 is single type rating) but also in terms of training and maintenance as well. Flybe is already well prepared to accept more Embraers probably with some free type ratings thrown in. Massive flexibility for the longer routes if the loads are low for the 195 and massive flexibility for crewing. One 195 in a base alone must be a cost disaster crewing wise.

If you read the latest newsletter it says that the new AF code share will see the 195 going more into Paris. Read into that what you will. Maybe jets have been requested, oh and any idea what Regional operate in France?!

It will all come down to costs and money. If Embraer give Flybe a discount of say 15 million a jet and in the deal allow us to be the largest maintenance and training provider for E Jets in Europe, that puts much more than just fuel burn into the cost calculation.

What is true is that the Dash cannot be beaten for the SOU - MAN flights etc. Its just too good but there is certainly room and an argument for a smaller jet.

We should all know better that to take what is said on an ART course as fact. The week before the course was told the complete opposite. Its all just rumour but isn't it fun speculating!

[Coffin Corner]

Well that just goes to show.......what do I know? :rolleyes:

Embraer Wins $1.3 Billion Order for 35 Planes From U.K.’s Flybe - BusinessWeek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-20/embraer-wins-1-3-billion-order-for-35-planes-from-u-k-s-flybe.html)

[FL370 Officeboy]

G-60 - good point on the hour building. If you're getting valuable jet time, this should be at a lower payscale to the dash-8.

Total and utter RUBBISH.

Thankfully....it doesn't really matter what you think and we can leave the BALPA CC to sort this and not you!!

[G SXTY]

In fairness to FANS, I've always thought we should get paid extra for having to fly the Q400. ;)

[Atreyu]

So chaps is it to replace some Q400s? Or as additions to the fleet?

Atreyu:ok:

[Coffin Corner]

I would imagine both Atreyu :ok:

[bigjarv]

Don't want to say I told you so but......... Told you so!!!

[Coffin Corner]

You just did :)

[G SXTY]

Yes, but what about the pay rise? :ok:

[Coffin Corner]

G-SXTY, don't even go there mate, just don't := :E:E

[Toastal]

So CC,

Did you have a large slice of that sweet, sweet humble pie for your supper? xxxxxxxxxxxx

T:suspect:

[Coffin Corner]

:rolleyes: No, just for your clarification, here is what I said, again

Hmm funny that Toastal.

What I posted was what we were told at an A.R.T course a few weeks ago. But then I supposed you are better informed so maybe we should all listen to you http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

CC

p.s. Where on this entire thread has anyone actually said, and I quote "It's NEVER going to happen"? Now THAT is staggering.

and

the caveat to that is that this is the airline industry, just about anything can happen at any time.

Again, where did I actually say it'll NEVER happen? So maybe you can get yours out the freezer.
Now you don't want me to run that by you again do you? :)

[NG FNG]

Wow, i'm not used to entering such high brow conversations, but here goes!

Does anyone know if this is going to mean ab initio guys will get a chance at Flybe soon and if so, when?

[Adios]

NG FNG,

I think the only people who "know" the answer to your question probably don't post on Pprune. These would be Flybe's top level managers and HR team.

There will be plenty of people willing to speculate though and if you've read the first four pages of the thread, you will know how useless speculation can be. The aircraft orders coming out of Farnborough this week are encouraging, but they won't be delivered tomorrow and quite a few are replacements for aging planes.

[magicmick]

At the risk of sounding like one of the ‘nay sayers’ who spread doom and gloom about the place, I honestly do not see a big move towards recruiting low hours ladies and gents.

Flybe have many, well advertised mentored/ pseudo sponsored schemes for MPL and MEIR with OAA, FTE and Cabair. They also have 5 authorised flying schools that they accept recommendations from and they will soon be taking in graduates from the Thomas Cook/ FTE cadet scheme to give them experience before they go on to fly something heavier.

As a consequence of the above Flybe have a holding pool or a number of holding pools full of people who have finished their mentored/ sponsored schemes or have been recommended by approved schools and have passed the selection process. All these people are eagerly awaiting their type rating dates. I know someone who was recommended to Flybe by an approved school and who passed through the selection process over 2 years ago, he still does not have a start date for his type rating. He has to maintain a certain currency in order to remain in the holding pool and he is spending £5k to £6k per year to maintain currency with little prospect of a type rating date in the near future.

When the new jets start arriving I assume that some Dash pilots will move over to the jet fleet but there will be more than enough people in the pool(s) waiting eagerly for a type rating start date to take their place.

I believe that for Flybe (or any other operator) to start recruiting low hours pilots in any great number their would have to be an F/O exodus of biblical proportions (probably Eastwards).

So while I do not think that the industry is dead in the gutter (I wouldn’t bother keeping my IR current if I thought that) and I do genuinely welcome the news of the new orders I seriously do not see the fabled upturn in fortune happening at the moment. The truth lies somewhere between these two scenarios and I would certainly not take the news of the orders as justification to start training without having the safety net of a cadet course.

As a low hours CPL and MEIR holder myself I truly hope that I am wrong and that there will be a big recruitment drive but I try to remain realistic and keep the rose tinted specs off my eyes.

Take it easy, stay safe and stay happy

MM

[Desk-pilot]

For those of you hoping that Flybe will start recruiting ab-initio again I think it all depends on the future external market. If the airlines on the next rung of the ladder start hiring again en masse many here think Flybe will suffer an exodus of significant proportions. The company is playing extremely hard ball with the latest pay rise which has disillusioned many, the lifestyle at present on the Q400 fleet is probably worse than even Easy or Ryan bcause we work 5/2 6/3 and even 6/2 rosters compared to their 5/4 rosters. Many F/O's are working 100 hour plus rosters per month and very few plan to stay if they get a offer of employment from Emirates/Qatar/BA/Thomas Cook/Monarch/Execjets.

The Embraer 170 order might have encouraged some to stay if the money and lifestyle wasn't so much better elsewhere but I personally know some F/O's I have spoken to who haven't been bidding for the jet because they don't wat to be lumbered with a type rating bond to clear for another three years when they get the chance to go elsewhere. £40k a year on the Embraer doesn't compare with £55k elsewhere on a Boeing or Airbus with any number of operators and more time off to enjoy it.

Rest assured that I personally know several Captains who are looking to leave or undertaking selecton too so potential exodus isn't just from the right seat.

In my view this all bodes quite well for wannabes over the next 2 years. Flybe is a great place to gain experience. Those of us who joined hoping to build a career here though perhaps feel a little sad that the company is keen to join the big league in terms of its size, ambition, airline fleet and route network but not prepared to remunerate its crews in line with the market. The Embraer is a lovely machine, I'd love to get my hands on it and frankly many of us wouldn't care if we never flew anything bigger in our career, but lifestyle and pay are what determines your quality of life outside work and to most people ther are more important than the machine they fly. sadly this is where Flybe falls short as a long term option for many.

Desk-pilot

[G SXTY]

Well said Desk-pilot, I would agree with every word of that.

[Calmcavok]

Spot on Desk-Pilot. I think that nicely sums up the mood of evrybody I could care to mention in Flybe, irrespective of Fleet.

[bigjarv]

I'm with you too. Great shame really. So much potential. Still, if people vote with their feet, that may get things changed. They are not a small training airline anymore. They are a very large operator. I just wonder if the training departments will be able to cope with the turnover. If not, a change may come but that will be too late for all of us. A fault line in an otherwise excellent business model maybe?

[Coffin Corner]

Agreed, spot on Desk Pilot :ok:

[speedrestriction]

Bigjarv: I just wonder if the training departments will be able to cope with the turnover.

I believe management have had their eye on that particular ball for quite a while hence the new training academy. They will very shortly have the keys for a modern training centre and with it the capacity to train very efficiently and large numbers. It is purely my own conjecture but I suspect for the company to retain a desireable level of experience the way forward might to offer a harmonised LHS payscale and a different RHS payscale based on type. Why? Because they can. This would breed resentment among Dash F/Os but we are at the bottom of the heap, as was seen in the 2006 pay negotiations when the company needed to improve the Dash captain salary it was the 146 fleet and the Dash F/Os who were left to foot the Bill. Ash seems to have clogged up the engine of good industrial relations as latest information is that management are no longer interested at looking into the late finish early starts issue without significant loss of "perks" such as DP, crew meals etc. I am not at all hopeful as, despite all the inclusive rhetoric and sickening fuzzy company staff emails, there is no real intention or willingness to improve the package on offer to crew.

"On behalf of the company I would like to thank you all for your continuing hard work and dedication which ensures the company's solid performance in challenging economic times...yada yada yada...." type memos are a monthly offering.

Unfortunately my car does not run on fuzzy memos, nor can I buy schoolbooks, pay my mortgage or do my weekly shopping with them. It is time for management to make a decent, fair commitment to staff.

sr

[Coffin Corner]

speedrestriction

Bloody well said that man.

[bigjarv]

More of the same here...

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/422089-flybe-terms-conditions.html