Jet Powered Wellington and Lancaster!

[teeteringhead]

I was fascinated and intrigued to learn from Sqn Ldr Jim Heyworth's obituary last week (online Telegraph version here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/air-force-obituaries/7852320/Squadron-Leader-Jim-Heyworth.html)) that early trials flew the Whittle W2B engine in a converted Wellington and the prototype Nene engine in a converted Lancaster.

Googling hasn't helped to provide much more information, so I'd be grateful if any erudite Ppruners could point me in the direction of more information, and particularly if any photograhs or drawings exist in the public domain.

The obituary also refers to the Meteor as "the world's first propellor turbine aircraft". This may not be the error it appears to be, as the old grey cells seem to recall stories of a turbo-prop Meatbox,which would of course fit neatly with the straight wing and the engine position.

Many thanks.

[Wander00]

As I recall, a Meteor was fitted with 2 Trent turboprops

[Wander00]

http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/gloster_trent-meteor.php (http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/gloster_trent-meteor.php)
Google is your friend

[teeteringhead]

Many thanks Wander00. I think the Wimpey/Lanc question will prove more difficult!

[skydiver69]

IIRC there are pictures of a Nene powered Lanc on the wall of the Langar control tower. Langar is now used exclusively by British Parachute Schools for skydiving but before they started it was a RCAF logistics base and before that an AVRO maintenance facility. The pic of the Lanc dates back to AVRO's time at the airfield which was in the 50's. Its not my picture and it is attached to a display in the tower so I'm afraid there is no way for me to get a copy.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Try this link for the Lancaster...

Avro 691 Lancastrian Jet - jet engine testbed, research transport (http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/avro_lancastrianjet.php)

TCF

[Planemike]

Quite a few Lancasters and Lancastrians were modified from the mid 1940s to assist in the development of both turbo jet and turbo prop engines. Too many to list here: anyone interested should consult A J Jackson's book AVRO Aircraft. Details of all the modified a/c are included.

I do not have the equivalent Putnam Vickers book so cannot check whether the modified Wellingtons are covered. Guess they will be fewer in number.

Planemike

[Wander00]

Here is a starter for 10

Iconic Aircraft Aviation Forum • View topic - Vickers Wellington & Whittle Engines (http://www.iconicaircraft.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1514&start=0)

[Wander00]

Was that a Lancastrian? (http://www.ozatwar.com/tedw.htm)

Nene Lancaster(rian) pic on this forum

[Kieron Kirk]

The Vickers Putnam book details the Wellingtons used as jet engine test-beds.

Wellington 11 Z8570/Merlin X/Whittle jet engine, later Merlin XX/Rover-Whittle unit.

Two hybrid Wellingtons W5389 and W5518, Mk 11 fuselages, Mk V1 wings and Merlin 62. From 1944 until 1945 these two Wellingtons tested 15 types of jet engines, a total of 512 hours in 366 flights.

Ciarain.

[Wander00]

KK. You win, I'll get my coat!

[critter592]

The obituary omits another prang Sqn Ldr Heyworth was involved in; this being the Dart testbed, Lancaster NG465.

This aircraft crashed on Hollinwell golf course near Annesley, Notts on 22 January 1954. The crew of 4 were unhurt.

[teeteringhead]

Thanks to you all for such swift and well-informed responses, which I shall spend happy hours following up. Would love to have heard the 2 x Merlin, 2 x Nene Lancastrian, although I suppose they may not have used them all together. I was certain I could rely on Pprune, but to get so much in less than 8 hours is amazing!

Skydiver69 - your mention of Langar was a "madeleine moment" for me too. We used the pool there for dinghy drills whilst on my JP BFTS at Syerston.

ISTR there was a beacon (Rebecca? Eureka?) at Langar also....

[Kieron Kirk]

Wander00,

It is too hot for a coat, well at least in Chessington, Surrey.

Both Putnam books are a source of considerable information, I am glad I have the whole set of the manufacturers books.

Ciarain.

[IFPS man]

There's plenty on the Web and in the public domain regarding the Whittle Engine Wellingtons, eg the link below. Double click on it, and details of the Jet -Powered aircraft appear....

Wellington (http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Well/Wellington.htm)

Pm me if you want any other links.....

Andy

[brakedwell]

During a high level handling exercise in a Vampire FB9 in 1956, I came across a DC3 cruising very sedately at 35000+ feet over Nottingham. A close inspection revealed it was powered by two RR Darts. I assumed it was an engine test bed from the Rolls Royce airfield at Hucknall and returned to Swinderby with a tale to tell.

[Brian Abraham]

brakedwell, info on the Dart DC-3 for you.

civil aviation | sir henry | henry royce | 1951 | 1294 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1951/1951%20-%201294.html)

B.E.A.'S TURBOPROP FREIGHTERS
WITHIN the next few weeks B.E.A. hope to take delivery of their second and final Dart-Dakota freighter. These aircraft are to be put into service on the Corporation's shorter Continental routes as the freight potential within the confines of the United Kingdom is not likely to provide enough traffic.

The Corporation's primary object in introducing the Dart-Dakotas is not to make money with them; they are intended to provide experience in operating the Dart turboprop prior to the delivery of Viscounts, and also to give crews a certain degree of familiarization with the power units. The two Dart-powered freighters are not re-engined Pionairs but normal Dakota conversions, all of the work having been undertaken by Rolls-Royce at Hucknall. They are named Sir Henry Royce and Claude Johnson (the latter name commemorates the man who was Sir Henry Royce's partner in the early days). The power units, Dart 504s rated at 1,400 h.p. (with a 365 lb static thrust) are as nearly as possible identical with the engines to be used in the Viscounts. The only modifications made were those required in order to accommodate the Dart nacelles in the Dakota's wing.

An extensive article located here 1952 | 3204 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1952/1952%20-%203204.html)

[Noyade]

Thread drift, but may be of interest to someone. A Swiss Mosquito test-bed for the Swiss-Mamba SM-01 turbojet intended for the "Aiguillon"...

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5908/poicustomnm7.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/poicustomnm7.jpg/)

[sycamore]

Teeters,there was R/E beacon at Langar,and the `high-dive into the pool,either followed by the dinghy pack,or on top of it.What year/course no. were you on?

[acmech1954]

A story I was told when I was a participant in keeping Canberra's towing targets for various eagle eyed aces to try and turn into rags, about the position of the engines on Meteors and Canberra's.
The story was that when the Meatbox and Cranbry were in the design stage the jet engine was in its infancy, and the reliabilty was not assured, the engines bays were positioned so that if required, a piston engine and prop could be fitted.
I never found out if it were true or not, but when you look at them it does seem feasable.

[teeteringhead]

Sycamore What year/course no. were you on? '68-'69 ... 182 Course - the penultimate at Syerston I think.

[Hen Ddraig]

Harry Holmes records the following turbine test bed Lancs
BT308 Mk1 prototype Metrovick F2/1
LL735 Mk2 Metrovick F2/1 june 1943 F2/4 Beryl 1945
ND784 Mk6 Armstrong Sidley ASX in bomb bay, Mamba turboprop in nose
NG465 Mk3 Various Darts from Oct1947-Jan 1954
RE137 Mk3 Armstrong Siddley Python mock-up
SW342 Mk3 Armstrong Siddley Mamba in nose Viper and Adder in tail positions
TW911 Mk3 Armstrong Siddley Pythons in outer engine positions
FM205 Mk10 Avro Canada Chinook engines in outer positions. Not flown.
FM209 Mk10 Avro Canada Orendas in outer nacelles
80001 Mk1 Ex Ra805 Rooyal Swedish Air Force test of Stal Dovern engine in bomb bay 1951. Later used to test RR Ghost with reheat.

Time to spare, go by air

Hen ddraig

[topgas]

Another story about the Wellington jet test bed: apparently the jet worked really well at altitude, giving greater altitude and speed even with both props feathered. On the return of one flight, the ground crew were amazed to see the crew and engineers emerge with tears steaming down their faces. As they came down from altitude, they had seen a Spitfire ahead, pootling along at 29,000 feet, minding its own business. They relit the jet and set off in pursuit. The spitfire pilot's face was something to be seen when he was overtaken by a Wellington with both propellers feathered - hence the tears of laughter :O

[om15]

The first aircraft to be used as a test bed for the Dart was Lancaster NG465, this flew on 10 October 1947, however the first aircraft to fly exclusively under Dart power was the Wellington Mk10 LN715 in 1948,

Vickers Wellington BX, LN715, Rolls Royce (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1270013/)

A further Dart powered test bed was the Viscount 630 G-AHRF, and an Airspeed Ambassador was used with two Darts and a large external spray grid for engine icing trials.

( Source RR Dart by Roy Heathcote published by Rolls Royce Heritage Trust),

br om15

[fetcheveryone]

I was reading my late Uncle's log books recently and it listed Lancastrians - I think he was CO at Farnborough at the time.

[Old-Duffer]

Teeteringhead,

You need to present yourself at the RAF Museum on Wednesday 19 October. The RAF Historical Society is doing a one day seminar on the jet engine and its development up until the mid-1950s. You will probably hear somebody answer your queries and much else.

If you are not already a member of the society, I could be persuaded to take you as a guest. There's a buffet lunch as well and a glass of Chateau Museum of dubious vintage. These events are usually good value imho.

Old Duffer

[teeteringhead]

Old Duffer

what a kind offer. I am not (at present) a member of the RAFHS and it sounds like a good day out. Presumably the Hendon Museum (is KI still there?) I shall be in touch anyway.......

Teeters