New airline to serve MoD airbridge contract to Falklands

[Dreamshiner]

Heard a rumour about this, not sure if its hanger talk but hopefully someone may shed some more light.

I was told that with the demise of Globespan the MoD had to find a replacement quickly to continue to the flights via Ascension Island. As a result they opted for Air Mauritius despite not insisting they employ any recently unemployed pilots on the ACMI contract.

A former Globespan employee approached the MoD with a proposal that a new UK company could be formed to facilitate this route. He asked for an extra few days from the cut-off for the bidding process (I understand it was for CAA/AOC/Sub hiring issues and red tape). MoD told him no and it was scuppered - well at least until the Autumn of this year when the contract is up for renewal with Air Mauritius.

Regardless the MoD may wish to explain why no caveat was given to Air Seychelles regarding UK based pilots when so many were made redundant and the direct experience at flying the route available. BALPA may also be party to not advocating this too, I'm not sure of their involvement.

Has anyone else heard of this?

[GlueBall]

It's hard to believe that the Ministry Of Defence can spend hard earned British taxpayers' money on foreign air carriers to service its outposts. :ooh:

[wings11]

Further to original post, anyone know what BALPA actually said or did about this contract?

There must have been UK airlines with the capacity to have filled the hole left by Globespan.

[jetstream7]

Thought it was Air Seychelles who had picked up contract to end of September?

[BIGBAD]

when does air tanker get it's first aircraft ? when will it start this route ? and what is going to happen to the RAF guys flying the VC-10 do they get put on this or is it civy pilots ?

[Dreamshiner]

"Balpa should have no say at all. If a UK airline refuses to enter a bid, or enters a too high bid then that is their perogative - Balpa, like many of us aviators are only virtual, senior airline managers and have no place in the commercial decission making process of an individual airline - (sorry, mini rant over)"

However if an overseas company does win the contract and then has to hire additional staff to facilitate the contract then it would be very easy for the MoD to make it a condition of the awarding of the contract .... no?

Also, apologies it was Air Seychelles, amended first post accordingly.

[wings11]

Saskatoon9999, thanks for your reply.

Do you know how many UK operators entered a bid after Globespan collapsed?

With respect your other point, it fails to appreciate the realities of the UK airline industry in the last year or so. An operator may well be able to get 2 Orlando rotations in the same timeframe but would they currently have enough pax to make any money on 2 rotations?

Contracts such as these are an important way for airlines to retain aircraft and crews, even if done at cost, to avoid the future potential expanse of recruiting and training new crews and obtaining extra aircraft if the airline feels their business may improve in 12/18 mths time and they want to be ready. This was probably Globespans motivation.

Balpa has a duty to speak up in these instances. They represent many now unemployed pilots in the UK. They should be lobbying government to advocate a British airline for MOD contracts if a British bidder was interested and if a British airline was not interested Balpa/MOD should be asking why not. I probably missed it but if anyone can detail Balpas efforts on this front it would be much appreciated. I only ask as I am on the verge of leaving Balpa (due to other recent action/inaction) and this may tip the balance.

Can you imagine the French MOD giving a similar contract to a non French airline?

[brit bus driver]

Surely DSCOM's remit is to provide the best value for money to the UK tax-payer, not to employ out of work airline pilots, much as that might be one's preferred option. Obviously flight safety is over-riding, but with that as a given, why should they shore up the UK airline industry?

[Nubboy]

As many private business's, and governments, have discovered, money circulating through your own system generates returns far above the nominal value of the cash concerned. On the other hand money spent on anything outside of your sphere is influence is lost.
Foreign aid given to an overseas country, with the condition that it's spent on goods and services from the donor country is mutually beneficial.

Any goverment department spending money should have, as part of it's remit, to ensure wherever possible, that some of that money should be coming back to it's home economy. Even if at first sight that's not the cheapest option.

[Brain Potter]

And how honest would the bidding process be if the interested UK airlines knew that the MoD were obligated to place the contract with one of them?

Of course, UK airlines participating in price-fixing cartels would be unthinkable, wouldn't it?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Chaps - MOD driven by cost not who flys the aircraft...Suspect Air Sey had a spare aircraft loitering - i know of least 1 ex Globespan driver (UK) who went there but i think he bailed out to Emirates. :\

[Mister Geezer]

Has anyone actually asked the question of was there a UK operator that actually had a spare airframe that they could commit for the length of the contract? Spare airframes during the summer months are somewhat of a novelty, especially for the charter operators that would probably be best placed for step in for this operation.

ACMI/Leasing played a major role with Globespan. For most other UK airlines, it is more of a seasonal affair for those that dabble in the leasing market.

[Dreamshiner]

I'm sure Thomson (who were releasing 150 or so pilots a few months ago) would have had the credability and longevity in the industry to approach a leasing company for a 767 or two parked up in the Californian desert for a 12-18 month contract. If the leasing company said no, then fair enough they tried and it would have been some money in the bank they spurned .... or am I being too simplistic?

So the government helps out the banks by putting pressure on other UK banks to buy up the failing ones ..... they did it with Rover too, however god forbid it happens in our industry.

[OutsideCAS]

I was under the impression that the contract was/is to be carried out by Titan ??

[nivsy]

Another quickpoint to remember here is that after the demise of GSM a replacement for the airbridge was required fast....no pussy footing around of companies saying yes we can do it - once we source suitable aircraft that is!

Credit due to MoD Commercial for actually carrying out a timely tender exercise, downselecting and arranging for a fairly quick and cost effective start up date at BZN.


Nivsy

[Leezyjet]

Has anyone actually asked the question of was there a UK operator that actually had a spare airframe that they could commit for the length of the contract?

There is a UK operator with 2 capable a/c currently parked in the South of France.....strangely enough this airline was first conceived to operate a UK-Falklands route !!.

:hmm:

[4Screwaircrew]

A mate at Titan suggested they were not awarded the contract because with only one 767 they could offer no back up if problems arose with that machine.

[minigundiplomat]

I agree with many of the points raised above, but......

I don't see what this has to do with BALPA. If the contract was to support the MOD and fly into Afghanistan 3 times a day, and UK airlines turned it down, would BALPA force them?

If the answers No, then BALPA has no place in the proceedings.

[Dreamshiner]

Fair enough mate, however the contract was to fly from Brize to Ascension and then onto Stanley. No war zone for a while, just ETOPS qualified, an understanding partner and a love of penguins required.

It was awarded to a foreign carrier and despite the recent demise of the previous contract holder no caveat was put on hiring any of their staff.

I can understand the MoD's rational with respect to urgency but it wasn't urgent enough they could have discussed or added an extra line to the contract.

Military contracts are notorious for their waste of money and oversights among the informed members of our population and current/past serving members of HM Forces. BALPA's failings (true or perceived) have also been thoroughly discussed.

I and many ex-GSM pilots now bonded to gulf airlines are probably wondering why their corner wasn't fought with a bit more guile.

[Vref+10.....to 44]

I believe the airline that took over at short notice is experienced in ETOPS, also flying to isolated aerodromes (seychelles), national carrier (LESS likely to go bust), and spare 767 to start tomorrow.i think also the cheapest and most flexible.

they also employ british and european flight deck. Not to mention they employed around 15-20 ex globespan cabin crew.

Aviation is not a charity, and i would imagine HM forces are not one either...they want the job done, and cant compute being let down by other airlines.

unfortunately the world, especially aviation is not covered in milk and honey anymore.

BALPA?...too busy counting their subscription coffers from BA to give a real monkeys.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

They have a spare aircraft, but no experience.

glf

[Creoleflyer]

Air Seychelles have the experience and the plane, and yes, have employed some british too. and yes... less chances of going bust. Wouldn't be nice to get another European company to do it and then later on (god forbid) go bust and have to find another company to do it... what do you think?

[cldrvr]

The contract was put out to tender and the lowest bidder won (helped of course by the demise in the Pound)

The MoD cannot specify in the tender contract to employ UK residents as it would preclude tender offers from domiciles where UK residents would not have the right to work. The tender process has been out for a while so why would the MoD extend the deadline to accomodate one tenderer? That would show bias in the tender process. The deadline was clearly spelled out and if the guys from Globespan could not meet the deadline that would have been their problem and not the MoD's. Now if the MoD would have given preferential treatment to a UK based operator, consulted BALPA, or not awarded it to the most cost efficient option there would have been more uproar. So now a few pilots are upset that the contract went offshore, I am pretty sure that that is of no concern to the MoD and the service personnel now enjoying a scheduled service again.

[Dreamshiner]

The contract was put out to tender and the lowest bidder won (helped of course by the demise in the Pound)

The MoD cannot specify in the tender contract to employ UK residents as it would preclude tender offers from domiciles where UK residents would not have the right to work. The tender process has been out for a while so why would the MoD extend the deadline to accomodate one tenderer? That would show bias in the tender process. The deadline was clearly spelled out and if the guys from Globespan could not meet the deadline that would have been their problem and not the MoD's. Now if the MoD would have given preferential treatment to a UK based operator, consulted BALPA, or not awarded it to the most cost efficient option there would have been more uproar. So now a few pilots are upset that the contract went offshore, I am pretty sure that that is of no concern to the MoD and the service personnel now enjoying a scheduled service again.

And that in one paragraph highlights what is wrong with our country. Nobody else plays by the rules however we stringently adhere to them.

If to keep the PC brigade happy you have to omit a line from the tender process then fair enough. However if you can imply something during the sit down talks (off the record) then that is something else completely.

[stansdead]

I heard that the UK registered and operated airline, Titan Airways had won the contract between UK/Ascension/Falklands with their B763.

[Mikehotel152]

Is that Titan 763 used for anything else?

[sam dilly]

Well if it isnt, then TITAN make a damn good job of hiding it, because you hardly ever see it parked outside the Hanger at Stansted.
It flys plenty.

[747-crew]

I heard rumours that air atlanta icelandic got the contract again with their 747-300

[ndorka]

Titan has got the contract. I know as I work for them. Everyone is actually not happy to go to Ascensions or Falklands.
Is it really that good over there??

[DjerbaDevil]

With their one and only B763, G-POWD that they are operating for Easyjet, presumeably.

[luvly jubbly]

ndorka.... No. But the Cabin Crew love it:}

[DC-10-COL]

I flew back to the UK on one of the first Air Seychelles flights - with the same Globespan Stewardesses that were on the Globespan 767 on the way down! Bring on the Airtankers!:hmm:

[411A]

Hmmm, is not the RAF capable of keeping their nine L1011 types in...reasonable service?
And, if not, WHY not?

If our small adhoc charter airline can keep our one lone L1011-500 fully serviceable for the last 200+ revenue hours, why the hell cannot the RAF actually...do the same?

Answers on a postcard will....do.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Chief Brody]

No answer re the RAF Tristar

Just one quick question .....

Are you ever not on this site ???

I mean your post was at 00.25 GMT thats late afternoon in Arizona - dont you have a bbq to go to or blow the froth off a couple with some mates?

Oh sorry I forgot, a bbq would involve you having pals which as most of us know on this site with you attitude and chip on your shoulder thats highly unlikely. :E

ta ta for now ol' bean

[Oceanic815]

411A
Whilst I cannot defend the Tristar serviceability record, they were taken off the Falkland schedule to provide a much needed airbridge to a hot sandy place!

[EGT Redline]

Hmmm, is not the RAF capable of keeping their nine L1011 types in...reasonable service?
And, if not, WHY not?

If our small adhoc charter airline can keep our one lone L1011-500 fully serviceable for the last 200+ revenue hours, why the hell cannot the RAF actually...do the same?

The biggest problem they face is a severe lack of spares. The parts are out there but the MoD just won't pay the going rate for them. At the end of the day you get what you pay for as more often than not, a lot of components received were fail on fit.

Out of curiosity 411A, what kind of hours and cycles has that machine you're operating accumulated? Is your maintenance done in house and do you utilise a flying spanner on flights?

[Brain Potter]

The SA run can be performed by a standard airliner. The RAF TriStars were re-deployed many years ago to be used on tasks that require military equipment and crews. Much of their current serviceabilty and airworthiness issues are related to equipment that is outside of 411A's experience.

[411A]

...what kind of hours and cycles has that machine you're operating accumulated?

65,000 hours and 17,500 cycles.

...Is your maintenance done in house and do you utilise a flying spanner on flights?

In house, except for heavy checks, and yes, flying spanners, always.
So far, 100% dispatch reliability...it can be done, all it takes is folks who know how.;)
I mean your post was at 00.25 GMT thats late afternoon in Arizona - dont you have a bbq to go to or blow the froth off a couple with some mates?
Late afternoon?
Gosh, we start much earlier than that, here.:p

[Trayliner]

Just to let all concerned now, Titan Airways has the Airbridge contract. I know because I work for them and have just got back from a 16 day trip to BZZ, ASN and MPN. A very interesting trip, but completely unacceptable accomodation, no locks on the door in MPN. You are more secure in a tent!

[Creoleflyer]

Any idea what's happening after March '11 then? Who's taking over the contract?

[mahfooz]

Seems like the MoD has reverse their decision as air seychelles just got its contract renewed for both flights. MoD stated 'outstanding performance' by air seychelles as reason for giving them the exclusive right do the all airbridge flights.

[Twinotterguy]

Titan Airline will take over the MoD routes starting next month. The MoD was extremely happy with Air Seychelles' service and they wanted to keep them till they get their own aircraft, but it seems that Mod Flights cannot be operated by any government subsidized airline stated by ministry of transport in the contract, Air Seychelles is a fully government owned airline. Titan took advantage of this and got the contract now. The MoD is still said to be disappointed that they had to let go of Air Seychelles who were giving such outstanding performance, anyways I hope Air Seychelles made that much needed good money as they were in the red for the past few years.

And I am very surprised how both Air Seychelles and MoD missed that part when signing the contract, maybe they missed the page?

[SKI]

Its not rocket science..its a bung....coruption in the uk mate..nah...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan Winterland]

Perhaps it was for morale reasons. It must be very depressing getting on an aircraft with Seychelles wriiten on the side and getting off it at MPA!

[Twinotterguy]

I really feel bad for Air seychelles, I mean if they were giving such good service why should they go? MoD didnt renew Titans contract last time as they were not satisfying the MoD but now they virtually had no choice but to give it to Titan.

@SKI you are right mate, its said to be that Titan was furious over Air Seychelles getting that contract and I dont need to say about their reaction when Air Seychelles contract was renewed.Now that they did "something" with the Ministry of transport that forced MoD to end Air Seychelles contract.

[Daysleeper]

So how does this latest news that the MOD are leasing 2 A330 from Cyprus Airways (70 % ish owned by the Cyprus Govt) affect this?

[skyboy24]

I am happy that i gt the chance to visits both ASI and the falklands while flying as a cc with the air seychelles. for me, its an opportunity. missing my dear colleagues (the uk based crew) already.

Back from paris on tuesday morning, and was so sad to see AHM back in seychelles airport, knowing that its all over :sad:


yeah we had a great time while flying the creole spirit xx
Rgds xx

[Mr Angry from Purley]

SKI
UK is 17th in the corruption league, top is New Zealand, bottom Somalia. Not sure where Seychelles are but they seem to be good at covering things up if the recent shark attacks are to go by....:\

[Vizsla]

Go back to the pre-war days.
BA to BA and Aerolinas to El Comodoro - Argy Air Force to Stanley......Beaver out to Camp and dont forget to pick up your Malvinas White Card on the way through BA