Rex FO incapacitated

[sleeve of wizard]

A REX Regional Express Saab 340B, registration VH-KDQ performing flight ZL-4126 22nd June 2010 from Adelaide,SA to Ceduna,SA (Australia), was already in cruise flight when the first officer started to feel unwell and became incapacitated. The captain decided to return to Adelaide while the first officer donned his oxygen mask. The airplane landed safely.

The Australian Transportation Safety Board have initiated an investigation into the serious incident.

[Wally Mk2]

All jokes aside this is a very real threat these days. We are a society of unfit people, just take a look at many Airline skippers for Eg who have been around a while, a lot are walking heart attacks!
Obviously the capt in this case did the only thing safe, get back to a familiar place meaning he knew the local conditions to reduce his pending workload. Might very well been a diff story had a newbie trained cadet been the only one left standing in the cockpit.
This is an area that's 'grey' SP Ops which is the norm mostly for A/C Blw 5.7 tonnes & even with 2 donks (my fav subject:}) having one driver in the seat is a big risk but I guess like all of aviation it's a risk, an acceptable/calculated risk. We dream up all kinds of redundancy features in A/C & have rules that would choke a brown dog & even with multi eng'ed turbine planes (very safe) there's usually only a one heart pilot at the wheel!:-) I often think of this whilst airborne hence I encourage my Med staff on-board a flight to have a fair understanding of the planes Auto Flight System, buys them at least time.

I would imagine Airline train for crew incapacitation & with the now over the top security in place within the A/C whilst airborne IE no one in the cockpit other than those meant to be there in the first place such events ( dud/sick pilot) might one day lead to an unfortunate outcome, let's hope not
Well done to the skipper of the Saab:ok:


Wmk2

[Cirronimbus]

Hopefully all is well for the FO and well done to the Captain. I wonder just how many pilots think of "I often think of this whilst airborne hence I encourage my Med staff on-board a flight to have a fair understanding of the planes Auto Flight System, buys them at least time."

Do airline crews train or prepare in some way to deal with crew incapacitation?

It would be a good thing if non-pilot aircrew in planes had some idea of what to do in the event of pilot incapacitation.

Does anyone actually train non-pilot aircrew how to deal with pilot incapacitation and manage the aircraft if the situation gets that bad?

[Nose wheel first]

I seem to remember a similar story (someone will be able to clarify the details for me i'm sure) regarding an Eagle B1900 in NZ a couple of years ago.

The Capt took ill and the FO was assisted by a passenger who held a CPL and IF rating. Don't know how much he did other than be the radio operator...

NWF

[Keg]

Do airline crews train or prepare in some way to deal with crew incapacitation?


Yes. At QF it invariably involves some kind of non-normal as well. Depressurisation, rejected take off, etc.

[Metro man]

Aren't Embraer planning a single pilot airliner ? :hmm:

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/418383-embraer-future-one-pilot-flightdeck.html

[Sqwark2000]

regarding an Eagle B1900 in NZ a couple of years ago. The Capt took ill and the FO was assisted by a passenger who held a CPL and IF rating. Don't know how much he did other than be the radio operator...


By co-incidence, it was a SAAB as well, one of Air Nelsons at the time. The public assistant was in fact a well known "Aviation Expert"/aviation journalist who is called on by news networks now and then for expert opinion on some aviation "disaster"... of course the headlines were booming with the "Hero aviation expert saves near certain death crash" type headlines for the next couple of days...

S2K

[Cypher]

Ahh yes.. the infamous chicken-sandwich on a hot sunny dashboard incident...

Nothin to do with the flight crew being unfit....

I believe said "aviation expert" barged his way into the flight deck before the F/O even had a chance to close the door....

[empacher48]

Our last Sim training had the captain become incapacitated after V1 with an engine failure about the same time, so you were getting airborne with a sick engine and a sick captain. :ok:

So that sort of thing is covered by the training departments out there.

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

Somewhere someone has got the details wrong as usual. Yes KDQ, Not REX but Pel Air, and Not ZL4126 but pel air mine charter! Also not full incapacitated, but yes oxygen!

FMC.

[The The]

When deciding what to do following pilot incapacitation, one should always first consult the seniority list.

[teresa green]

Without a doubt THe, if he was ahead, TAA drivers always tried to get one more orbit in, or use a malfunctioning oxy bottle! Tongue in cheek of course!:E

[ReverseFlight]

It can happen any time, as in this current thread in the Rumours & News forum:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/418333-flight-attendant-helps-land-plane-ohare.html

[Tee Emm]

Our last Sim training had the captain become incapacitated after V1 with an engine failure about the same time, so you were getting airborne with a sick engine and a sick captain. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifGood to see these sort of totally unrealistic and statistically improbable scenarios being invented to test exactly what? Another useless time waster. Whoever thinks up such rubbish should get a life.:mad:

[empacher48]

Good to see these sort of totally unrealistic and statistically improbable scenarios being invented to test exactly what? Another useless time waster. Whoever thinks up such rubbish should get a life.

About what I thought too! Unfortunately our Training department have far too an active imagination when it comes to sim training!

[Bankstown]

Unrealistic on a V1 cut - probably
Realistic during a depressurisation descent - much more likely!

[john_tullamarine]

About what I thought too! Unfortunately our Training department have far too an active imagination when it comes to sim training!

Not considering whether the particular exercise might be good, bad or indifferent.

Now, Tee Emm and I know each other well, and I hold his vast experience in the highest regard. However, another slant on the philosophy is along the lines of

(a) I can ask the chap in the front seat to do a single pilot engine failure run with a bit of side distraction (which is what this exercise amounts to - not much different to the old "would you like a cup of coffee" trick in the Link Trainer just as you are reaching some limit), or

(b) I can dolly it up a bit, such as with the cited exercise, to introduce a bit of surprise factor.

There is a cogent reason for considering the philosophy of (b) and that relates to pilot perception of one's own abilities ..

For instance, years ago DCA (the then Australian Regulator), in co-operation with TAA (as I recall - but it doesn't matter which colour was involved - the results would have shown similarities had it been AN), sat in on a number of sim sessions with surprise factor exercises introduced by arrangement with the training folk. In essence, the study aim was to look at variability of tracking in the event of a quasi real world engine failure during takeoff. As I recall, from a discussion with the DCA engineer who headed up the study, the exercise involved briefing for whatever but then introducing a (somewhat unexpected) engine failure for some of the takeoffs. Interestingly but, I think not surprisingly, the quality of initial OEI tracking correlated with the surprise factor. Teresa Green's age would put him with the operator at that time so he may be able to offer some recollections ?

The value, as I see it, with this sort of exercise in the sim, is that the pilot has to confront his/her own capability deltas with an expected versus an unexpected situation. It follows that such exercises should be done without any jeopardy to the pilot - ie it is a training exercise and, most definitely, should not be a checking animal.

Not much different in philosophy to doing chamber runs to experience one's own physiological reality of hypoxic episodes.

With the caveat that such must fall rigidly into the exposure/training, rather than checking, paddock, I am with the camp which favours using the aircraft to experience reasonable reality but exploiting the sim to expose/challenge the crew to/with their existing reality boundaries for the undoubted training value potential.

I acknowledge that there are many sim instructors/examiners around for whom this sort of approach might not give a good fit ...

[Nose wheel first]

S2K

I'm assuming it wasn't Paul Holmes then :hmm::hmm:

Have heard him give his "expert" analysis on many things aviation over the years.

[Mr. Hat]

Aren't Embraer planning a single pilot airlineyeah they're struggling with two pilots managing their machine at the moment!

[yowieII]

Good to see one presenting a cogent argument, although in the presence of presumed quasi interpretations of their own capability deltas, 'Caveat lector', as it seems all too easy to, expose, the, obvious, misuse, of multiple, commas, in an attempt to highlight the very real and quite restrictive boundaries imposed physiologically on the human in an aeronautical environment.

Glad to see some one else posting under the afluence of a red or 4:hmm:

Absolutely agree that the sim is THE best TRAINING tool that we have available. How do you find out YOUR limitations if you don't test them?

[john_tullamarine]

Glad to see some one else posting under the afluence of a red or 4http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Actually quite sober at the time ... if somewhat weary after a week's worth of early starts and late finishes. A re-read of the post confirms the old adage that fatigue correlates with alcohol consumption so far as performance is concerned ...

.. easy to tell when I post in an alternative mode ... I use far too many long words and ramble on and on a tad ... but my singing gets far better ..

[BadPony]

Wally

I think it's more of a case of, thank :mad: that there wasn't a "newbie trained cadet left standing in the cockpit"

Imagine the potential media frenzy that would of caused and how it would effect future cadet schemes at the likes of JS and VB.

Interesting!