Qantas Sells 767s [Archive]

DEFCON4

22nd Jun 2010, 02:04

ATSG buys 3 B767s from Qantas
The Enquirer • June 21, 2010

Air Transport Service Group Inc. said Monday it has committed to buy three Boeing 767-300 extended range jets from Qantas Airways Ltd, executing on a letter of intent announced in May.
The Wilmington, Ohio-based air transport services company said it expects to take delivery on the three GE-power jets, with a payload of 120,000 pounds, by this fall. ATSG didn't disclose the purchase price, but said similar 767-300 extended range freighters are valued from $28.5 to $31.5 million.

Joe Hete, ATSG president and CEO, said, "The purchase of these 767-300ERs extends our leading position in the medium wide-body freighter market, and gives us the means to transport greater cargo volumes over longer non-stop routes than our 767-200s can today."

The company said it will finance the purchase from its existing credit agreements.

OneDotLow

22nd Jun 2010, 05:09

... and there I was thinking they had sold them to JB at DJ. Now THAT would be a headline!!!
:}

Shark Patrol

22nd Jun 2010, 05:09

Let me guess the next bit.

They repaint them, and bring them to Australia to carry even more freight for Qantas. More 767 pilots go on assigned leave.

Genius!!

hotnhigh

22nd Jun 2010, 06:17

No money in freight. That's why qantas has those three atlas services a day out of syd.:ugh::ugh::ugh:
Back to my assigned leave.

puff

22nd Jun 2010, 06:47

Check out airline pilot central for Atlas wages - top rate 744 Captain is on $176 an hour - 62 hours guarantee a month - down to $75 an hour for a JNR F/O. On guarantee thats about $130k CPT and $55k FO + $55 a day DTA PA USD.

ATI (the 767 contract) doesn't list 767 wages - but DC8 wages on airline pilot central list the DC8 wages as about $115k for SNR CPT, and $37 for Jnr F/o + $2 an hour DTA. Money in freight on those kinda wages !

Compares to a SNR captain at Fedex on guarantee on $218K plus between $1.95-$2.75 DTA USD for a snr capt.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo.html

Going Boeing

22nd Jun 2010, 09:55

ATSG didn't disclose the purchase price, but said similar 767-300 extended range freighters are valued from $28.5 to $31.5 million.

That price sounds a bit high for 22yo B767's with high hours and cycles. Great aircraft that have served Qantas and its passengers very well.

The Professor

22nd Jun 2010, 16:06

"No money in freight."

Not with the overheads of a highly unionised legacy carrier.

That is why Atlas exists.

Fedex are not in the same freight game as QF or Atlas.

hotnhigh

22nd Jun 2010, 21:10

Right on Professor.
Jetstar Freight on the other hand.... Think about it, no pesky overheads, like the people who organise the fuel, the people who organise the aircraft purchasing, the sim purchasing, the engineering support when it goes pear shaped. The staff that are required to handle the pax when jetstar goes tech and are "bumped" back to the qantas aircraft down the other end of the terminal.
Damn overheads alright.

The The

22nd Jun 2010, 21:25

If the success or failure of an organisation is dependant on what its pilots are paid, then it is doomed to fail regardless.

So QF has a stack of pilots sitting around on minimum hours and at gross inefficiency and then saves a few bucks with cheaper rates for the freighters. Yep, sure makes sense to me.

The Professor

22nd Jun 2010, 23:48

hotnhigh,

My apologies.

I didnt know Jetstar were competing in the cargo world with dedicated cargo aircraft.

lowerlobe

23rd Jun 2010, 02:28

"No money in freight."

Not with the overheads of a highly unionised legacy carrier.
Yes unions....the scourge of the earth and board rooms of Australia..

Now what was that about the ex CEO of David Jones being paid out over a million dollars and doing a runner because of inappropriate behaviour....

Professor..who said you can't make money out of freight with a legacy airline...

They've done it with J* so why not use the aircraft they have.Even if they use J* pilots it would mean not having to pay freighter airlines...

They have just sold assets that they could have used for services they pay other carriers for...

Yeah makes a lot of sense....:yuk:

Atlas Shrugged

23rd Jun 2010, 03:48

That is why Atlas exists.

:E .

GlobalMaster

23rd Jun 2010, 06:37

Perhaps it's all in the timing?

Ben Sandilands writes: (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=5f9161f5-0379-4615-97ee-8213adeccaf0&rid=e4e786fd-27f2-4418-a165-6634e62a03bb)

BOEING 767S (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=3970378c-b538-40a9-ac00-3cdf894c2dc3&rid=e4e786fd-27f2-4418-a165-6634e62a03bb), QANTAS (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=da27c504-28cc-450c-8b57-ac7607190646&rid=e4e786fd-27f2-4418-a165-6634e62a03bb)

The discovery of unexpected fatigue cracks in at least four American Airlines Boeing 767s in the last month has cast a shadow over the widely used twin aisle jet.

Qantas is understood to be ‘alert but not yet alarmed’ by the US reports, and is seeking clarification from Boeing. It operates 26 of the jets in configurations of around 250 seats, mainly on east coast CityFlyer services

The Qantas 767s were due to be replaced by Boeing 787 Dreamliners from late 2008, but it may not receive that much-delayed plastic jet until 2015, and only after its low cost brand Jetstar receives its first 787s about a year earlier

US sources claim the Federal Aviation Administration is drawing up a mandatory set of inspections for all 767s to be announced in the near future in relation to engine pylon cracks found in two of 54 American Airlines 767s.

One of the pylon cracks had grown to a stage where it could have broken apart, dropping the engine off the wing.

In April 2001, dangerous pylon cracks were found within a fleet of five very old and improperly maintained Ansett 767s, setting the scene for their infamous Easter grounding after yet another of the jets was found to have made multiple inter city flights with defective emergency door slides.

It isn’t known if the American Airlines pylon issue is the same as the problem at Ansett, but like Ansett, American is a serial offender in terms of maintenance errors and has been repeatedly fined millions of dollars by the US safety regulator.

However, different surprise cracks were also detected in the main wing spar of several of American’s 767s which have been fitted with large heavy winglets or ‘horns’ to smooth the aerodynamic performance of the wing over medium to longer distances, causing a net saving in fuel burn

These optional winglets have long been widely used on Boeing 737s, but the larger version now being fitted to some 767s are of more recent design. They have not been adopted by Qantas, which now uses its 767s for primarily short routes but are being fitted to some Air New Zealand 767s that are flown for longer distances.

The FAA and Boeing are understood to be investigating these wing cracks to determine if they are related to the normal processes of airframe aging or are an unintended consequence of additional stresses caused by winglet installations.

It is a situation that is being studied with intense interest at Qantas, and just possibly at Virgin Blue, which is rumoured to be considering acquiring 767s to lift its domestic and regional international capacity above the 180-189 seat limit of its Boeing 737-800 fleet.

:hmm:

Alien Role

23rd Jun 2010, 06:56

Isn't Express Freighters Australia a wholly owned susidiary of the Qantas group?
From what I understand, EFA is fully supported by Qantas re maintenance, flight planning etc. but is a stand alone operation. Crew are recruited / trained / sim checked to QF mainline standards (evidently some are on the Q "hold file"), but are remunerated as a "green fields" operation.:=

So why is it so, that if QF are selling a/c that could be converted to freighters and at the same time wet leasing a/c for freight operations, EFA are not getting the gig??

Role on....

The Green Goblin

23rd Jun 2010, 08:17

Let me guess the next bit.

They repaint them, and bring them to Australia to carry even more freight for Qantas. More 767 pilots go on assigned leave.

Genius!!

And in the next breath you are whining about them keeping them as they are old and past their used by date.

rmcdonal

23rd Jun 2010, 08:34

And in the next breath you are whining about them keeping them as they are old and past their used by date.
They are old, but would be great for freight were the interior decor doesn't matter.

Bankstown

23rd Jun 2010, 09:07

Have a look at the third subsidiary logo along at the bottom of this page: Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (http://www.atsginc.com/)
Looks familiar as a Qantas Freight provider!

rmcdonal

23rd Jun 2010, 10:37

Bumpfoh

23rd Jun 2010, 12:38

Word is that EFA are getting a 4 year old ex ANA B767F, the exact timing of which I do not know.

Sure better than a converted 20 year old unit with a heap of hours, cycles and fatigue to boot.

Gee much like the 4 B737SF they operate now!:rolleyes:

Shark Patrol

23rd Jun 2010, 16:25

And in the next breath you are whining about them keeping them as they are old and past their used by date.

And when did I ever say that?

AnQrKa

23rd Jun 2010, 21:34

"...after yet another of the jets was found to have made multiple inter city flights with defective emergency door slides."

As did some QF 767's. But thats not important is it.

Aerozepplin

23rd Jun 2010, 22:32

One of the pylon cracks had grown to a stage where it could have broken apart, dropping the engine off the wing.
but it may not receive that much-delayed plastic jet until 2015

:cool: Cool

gate4

24th Jun 2010, 00:50

So Qantas wet leased a 767 to fly freight from Aus to NZ and back while it parked aircraft and crew up, now it is going to sell 3 of its 767s to the same company so it can wet lease them back to fly freight?

Qantas made major changes to its schedule in 2009 at the same time it introduced Jetstar (LCC) to the NZ Domestic Market and International Market ex AKL. The reshuffle of aircraft, flights and routes saw widebodies exit the Trans Tasman market and smaller 737-800s & A320's take over. The ATI B767-200 provides support for pallet sized cargo out of AKL and CHC across the Tasman. From next month July Qantas will operate A330s into AKL across from SYD and back on a 6x weekly basis to allow for the aircraft to operate to LAX ex AKL. I would say A330s alongside the ATI B767 will be enough capacity cargo wise on TT. ATI could swap it's current B767-200 on lease to QF for an ex QF B767-300 in the future and operate the rest of its B767Fs it gains and has else where worldwide on behalf of other airlines not just Qantas.

I wouldn't be surprised if DHL team up with ATI for use of a B767-300F once VH-DHE B727F is sent away for good.

captwawa

24th Jun 2010, 01:29

Below 10million i guess considering the other 767s on this link for sale

Aircraft For Sale At Controller.com - Page 1 (http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?bcatid=13&Mdltxt=767-200,767-200ER,767-238ER,767-300,767-300ER&mdlx=contains&Manu=BOEING,BOEING/STEARMAN&FullText=boeing+767&ETID=1)

another superlame

25th Jun 2010, 10:41

Just a thought, but I believe these 767s are already in storage in Victorville waiting to be cut up or sold off. They are not as it seems to be perceived, aircraft still flying the east coast.
Personally I am happy to see the back of them,although nice to fly on and a good all round machine I have never enjoyed working on them.

Tempo

28th Jun 2010, 21:52

That is correct superlame. These jets are sitting in Victorville collecting dust at the moment.

VBPCGUY

29th Jun 2010, 01:42

Would be OGA and OGC that are there at present.

VBPCGUY

30th Jun 2010, 02:58

Ahh yes forgot about OGD:ok:

QFBUSBOY

28th Nov 2010, 02:08

Am hearing that QF has bought/leased 4 dedicated B767 Freigthers from a Singaporean Company.

The aircraft are apparently being repainted in QF colours right now in China.

Truth or fiction?

Keg

28th Nov 2010, 03:31

Perhaps partial truth? AAE (part? owned by QF) are getting at least 1 767. $170K for Captains apparently. :rolleyes: :ugh: := I don't know what colours they'll be in but I understand it's one of our former 767s that was sent to the desert.

tasdevil.f27

28th Nov 2010, 03:43

I heard that AAE are looking to have a 767 on the Perth/Mel run early to mid next year.

Dangly Bits

28th Nov 2010, 05:29

Didn't GOOGLE buy an ex-QF 767 a few years ago to turn into a corporate jet? Might need to google it to find out..

DB

Wunwing

28th Nov 2010, 05:59

Professor.
I am intrigued by your knowledge on this matter.

In a previous life I was tasked with looking at this matter with a legacy carrier who had a large fleet of pax aircraft.
The company in question had the same opinion as you. The Pilots union disagreed and so after a Parliamentary enquiry a few of us were tasked with investigating the economics of operating a couple of freighters on the "golden triangle" in competition to the main players but under "legacy" award.

What we found was that if it was a level playing field, ie the Oz carrier had the same traffic rights as the US carriers ( (non legacy) then the market was break even to the US carriers and we could make a profit. Effectively the route US/Oz/Asia/US was break even/ loss/Good profit. However it soon became obvious that commercial considerations had nothing to do with it but politics did and very quickly our investigation team was closed down by vested interests.

Looking at you position on a number of issues I suspect indeed you are part of those vested interests.

Wunwing

gobbledock

28th Nov 2010, 05:59

Am hearing that QF has bought/leased 4 dedicated B767 Freigthers from a Singaporean Company.
The aircraft are apparently being repainted in QF colours right now in China.
Truth or fiction?
Truth. They commence operations next year.

Professor - Legacy carriers DO make $$ from freight. AaE is 51% owned by Australia Post and 49% QF Group. The majority of Australia's domestic cargo moves via QF mainline groups during the day and via AaE at night. Qf does not lose money on domestic cargo, and Australia Post certainly doesnt lose money either with their sweet monopoly !
The Irishman has set a lot of new targets through cost reductions and you will see a few changes within th QF Group cargo operations over the next 12 months.

blow.n.gasket

28th Nov 2010, 06:09

Isn't Express Freighters Australia a wholly owned susidiary of the Qantas group?
From what I understand, EFA is fully supported by Qantas re maintenance, flight planning etc. but is a stand alone operation. Crew are recruited / trained / sim checked to QF mainline standards (evidently some are on the Q "hold file"), but are remunerated as a "green fields" operation.

Is that a fact.
EFA crew are recruited, trained and sim checked to QF mainline standards.
So a new F/O or a new Capt in EFA has exactly the same training as a Mainline pilot. What is the cost and how many sim sessions and line sectors exactly?
Should make integration of a Groupwide Opportunity seniority list easy.

However I bet you will find that there will be a difference in what training is done.

moremj2

29th Nov 2010, 05:36

Firstly....sad to see my old bread and butter disappearing.

Secondly (from memory) the 76's were actually bought by and owned by a company called "perpetual nominees" and then (on an operational perpetual lease back deal) flown by qantas....(this info used to be on a little plaque on the inside of flight deck door....as it is a requirement to display the ultimate owner of the aircraft on the aircraft.

You may wish to begin your digging there (perpetual nominees) and see who else they have $$ invested in...the answers are out there boys and girls...

boocs

29th Nov 2010, 08:59

"There's no money in freight" said a former Ansett Chief Pilot....
b.

Bankstown

6th Dec 2010, 04:14

Qantas issued a media release about the B767F today:
About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2010/dec10/5052)
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wings-down-under/assets_c/2010/12/Qantas%20Freight%20763%20in%20Qantas%20livery-thumb-560x448-105054.jpg

ROH111

6th Dec 2010, 04:46

Sh*t hey...

I've noticed quite a few 20T trucks driving around Sydneytown painted in Qantas Freight colours, I was wondering what was going on.

But hey, after all, there is no money is freight... is there..!

Fris B. Fairing

6th Dec 2010, 05:04

Qantas media release:

The leased B767-300F will also be the first Qantas Group aircraft to display a Qantas Freight-specific livery.

Well it does say "Cargo" but nevertheless I think today's media release reflects a loss of corporate memory.

Boeing 707-327C N7099 leased from Braniff Jan-Sep 1971.

http://www.adastron.com/707/gallery/n7099-2.jpg

767 not good enough to carry the roo?

gobbledock

6th Dec 2010, 05:38

"There's no money in freight" said a former Ansett Chief Pilot....
b.
Well that was the case with Ansett especially after they started losing mail contracts in the late 90's an AaE was born. But anybody who was around freight during that era would also know how Ansett air freight was being run and yes they were losing money hand over fist. There was bad practise amongst management and workforce.
This is not a dig at Ansett by the way as I still miss the airline to this very day. I am just stating a fact from a business perspective and first hand knowledge of the industry.

The introduction of this aircraft under EFA will enable Qantas to keep people costs down by outsourcing, as well as shutting QF mainline drivers out of the loop... What a shock ????

Bankstown

11th Dec 2010, 05:36

It would seem the EFA 767 is not ex-Qantas, it is ex-ANA Cargo.

Sonny Hammond

11th Dec 2010, 11:57

http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-content/uploads/emirates-skycargo-777f.jpg

SOPS

11th Dec 2010, 12:34

And boy oh boy does she climb when she is empty!!!!:E

The Professor

11th Dec 2010, 15:45

"In a previous life...", exactly how long ago was this "previous life". I suspect back when labor costs were not as defining as they now are.

Gob

"The majority of Australia's domestic cargo moves via QF mainline groups during the day and via AaE at night."

You are correct. BUT how much cargo moves within Australia on a legacy airline dedicated cargo aircraft. I can tell you now - its a VERY small number.

How many dedicated cargo aircraft are operated by BA or LH or AA or UA or QF or CX or SQ . . . . .

VERY FEW legacy carriers can make money from operating cargo aircraft on mainline overheads.

ferris

11th Dec 2010, 23:29

VERY FEW legacy carriers can make money from operating cargo aircraft on mainline overheads. Hahahaha. You prove yourself to be an idiot over and over again.
Lufthansa CARGO
German CARGO
Sing CARGO
UPS CARGO

etc. etc. etc.

The Professor

12th Dec 2010, 00:20

I should be more specific. It appears you need spoon feeding.

How many dedicated cargo aircraft are operated by BA or LH or AA or UA or QF or CX or SQ mainline . . . . .

And the examples you used highlight my point EXACTLY.

Lufthansa DOES NOT operate cargo only aircraft as a mainline operation.

German Cargo DID NOT.

Sing Cargo is a separate company employing its own staff.

UPS is a small parcel delivery system that DOES NOT carry cargo.

Again, VERY FEW legacy airlines operate cargo only aircraft with the same overheads as the passenger operation.

But thank you for supplying me with 4 good examples that support my argument.

Try again twit.

AnQrKa

12th Dec 2010, 00:25

NW was the only airline in the US to have dedicated freighters but they dont exist anymore so now no US based airlines fly cargo - pax airlines that is.

of course there is kalitta/evergreen etc but they are far from major carrier wage levels and conditions.

maui

12th Dec 2010, 00:50

Yep

No money in freight. Thats why KAL run 30 or so, dedicated 747.400 freighters.

They will learn one day.;)

ANA and JAL Cargo should heed the warning too.

Maui

AnQrKa

12th Dec 2010, 01:18

JAL cargo was a separate business but recently shut down. Cant have been too much money in cargo.

Nippon cargo is a separate business with own crew etc.

Old Fella

12th Dec 2010, 03:27

Cathay Pacific operates a fleet of 24 B747 Freighters, comprising 6 B747-400F's, 12 B747-400BCF's and 6 B747-400ERF's. Cathay moves about 100,000 tonnes of freight per month, half of which is carried on their 101 aircraft operating passenger flights. They have committed to 10 B747-8 Freighters. No money in freight? Cathay certainly believes there is.

The Professor

12th Dec 2010, 03:39

CX is another fine example of where the cargo fleet is operated separately to the passenger fleet. The pax overheads, namely labor costs, do not spill over to the cargo fleet. Cathay Pacific Airways does not operate a single cargo aircraft.

Again, find me a legacy carrier that operates cargo only aircraft at pax fleet costs and crewing?

It makes little business sense.

Old Fella

12th Dec 2010, 04:26

CX has not always had a seperate "Freight only" fleet operated as a seperate entity. Initially, and for a number of years, CX operated B747-200F aircraft (at least three that I flew on) crewed by mainline crews. Our roster simply had us on either a pax flight or a freighter. Even today, about half the monthly freight carried (about 100,000 tonnes) is moved on pax flights. About 30% of Cathay's revenue is generated by freight.

chards

12th Dec 2010, 04:36

Well Professor, you are truly confusing me! Here I sit in a crew hotel with a CX contract on a full CX expat pay scale and it sure as hell looked like a CX freighter that I just landed. Did I hear you calling someone a twit?

maui

12th Dec 2010, 05:35

Prof.

I would swear I mentioned KAL!

Same crews same rosters same everything. KAL is reputed to be the third largest freight carrier behind Fedex and UPS. Largest of the pax carriers.

Strictly speaking, a Legacy Carrier is of USA origin and preceeding deregulation, so technically you may very well be correct. However I don't believe you were being quite that tight in your definition.

M

ferris

12th Dec 2010, 07:24

But thank you for supplying me with 4 good examples that support my argument.

Try again twit.
Keep digging that hole, genius. Your argument (for want of a better word), as I understand it, is that cargo operators can't survive if they pay crews at the rate that legacy carriers do (and therefor have "high costs"). That is your contention, right? As I, and others have pointed out, that is total BS. You have just had a pilot (CX) tell you in no uncertain termsthat he earns the same as the dreaded legacy operation pax-flying pilots you despise, whilst flying freight.

Keep digging, though, champ. You look especially stupid when you describe UPS as carrying 'small parcels', but not freight. WTF? The unfortunate crew of the UPS6 that crashed in Dubai recently might ask you if a pallet load of lithium batteries (that is believed to have caused the smoke) is considered 'not freight'.

Cactusjack

12th Dec 2010, 07:34

Professor, as much as I nomally quite enjoy your posts which contain a broad mixture of intellect, rubbish, fact and fiction, and are often well presented, I think you have buried yourself in this thread. There is money in freight, there is money made by legacy cariers within freight operations.
CX has been a very good example of this for years. Your UPS comment is absolutely absurd. Perhaps FEDEX ,although not a legacy carrier, only uplift realestate brochures and the occasional gumball machine ??

Where is Ken Borough anyway, surely he has some input in this discussion ???

AnQrKa

12th Dec 2010, 16:40

ferris - you saw the con note did ya. The ups had a pallett load of batts? Are you sure about that?

chards - CX freighter crew are on different contract than HKG based pax crew and you know it. Less money for same type.

chards

12th Dec 2010, 18:52

AnQrKa- I was responding to this:

"CX is another fine example of where the cargo fleet is operated separately to the passenger fleet. The pax overheads, namely labor costs, do not spill over to the cargo fleet."

The fact is that EVERY pilot on the pax 744 also flies the freighter at cx even though there are still old freighter only contracts. All new contracts are for the combined fleet, no differentiating between pax/freighter.

The Professor

16th Dec 2010, 04:30

“You look especially stupid when you describe UPS as carrying 'small parcels', but not freight. WTF? The unfortunate crew of the UPS6 that crashed in Dubai recently might ask you if a pallet load of lithium batteries (that is believed to have caused the smoke) is considered 'not freight'.”

There appears to be a misunderstanding of what market segment UPS and FEDEX (DHL…) operate in. It is NOT the cargo hauling business. These companies are small package delivery services with a delivery network that literally covers the globe. They employ several hundred thousand people and operate over 100,000 delivery vehicles. This market has proven to be a very lucrative one.

The cargo hauling companies operated by LH,BA,CX,SQ etc are NOT players in this market.

“Your UPS comment is absolutely absurd. Perhaps FEDEX ,although not a legacy carrier, only uplift realestate brochures and the occasional gumball machine ??”

Mostly, yes.

You folk on this page argue in absolutes. Yes, of course there are legacy/old world/incumbent carriers hauling heavy cargo as part of the mainline business. But MOST carriers, especially western carriers saddled with high labor costs, do not.

“The fact is that EVERY pilot on the pax 744 also flies the freighter at cx even though there are still old freighter only contracts. All new contracts are for the combined fleet, no differentiating between pax/freighter.”

But most of CX cargo is hauled by non-mainline crew. And CX cargo is a separate business, as stated above.

If there is so much money to be made in cargo, why don’t we see a BA 744F on the ramp. Or AA. Or QF. Wouldn’t they be keen to grab a slice of this lucrative pie?

Cargo744

16th Dec 2010, 05:09

There appears to be a misunderstanding of what market segment UPS and FEDEX (DHL…) operate in. It is NOT the cargo hauling business. These companies are small package delivery services with a delivery network that literally covers the globe. They employ several hundred thousand people and operate over 100,000 delivery vehicles. This market has proven to be a very lucrative one.

Professor,

I have unloaded and processed many a 5X and FX flight in my time. Whilst approx 60-70% of the aircraft is in fact small parcel post the rest is general cargo uplifted on behalf of freight forwarders such as Schenker and co. We have had many a horse, outsized cargo on 20ft pallets and perishable foodstuffs both for export and import on these carriers.

With regard to 5X crash being caused by Lithium Batteries when I handled 5X they had a complete blanket ban on the carriage of DG's... has this changed?

VR-HFX

16th Dec 2010, 05:51

Prof

Chards is absolutely correct WRT CX. Apart from a few on FX only contracts all 744 pilots fly both fleets if and as required.

Apart from the scheduling disruptions, staying away from PAX terminals and SLF is a far less stressful life.:)

towerboy

20th Dec 2010, 14:27

All you pilots do is argue with each other, and others...about...baloney!

No wonder you guys (and girls) are going backward in this world.

Drop the ego and start banding together (though it will NEVER happen).

You people are so full of yourselves that you stop general debate.

Other parts of the aviation industry are joining together...and good luck to them!

You people are in your own perverse world...and GOOD LUCK to you.

You'll need it in the future, when you all turn on each other, (as is happening already).

stubby jumbo

22nd Dec 2010, 09:10

SEATTLE, Dec. 20, 2010 — Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced its
production rate for the 777 program will increase to 8.3 aircraft per
month in the first quarter 2013. This is the second production increase
announced for the program this year. In March the program announced it
would increase production from five to seven aircraft per month
beginning in mid-2011.

“In response to strong customer demand globally, we are increasing our
yearly production to 100 777s,” said Boeing Commercial Airplanes
President and CEO Jim Albaugh. “The 777 is the twin-aisle market leader
because of its superior operating economics, unmatched range and
preference among travellers’ needs.”

The 777 has a large installed operator base, and a track record of
proven performance including 1,163 orders, 907 deliveries and a backlog
of more than 250 airplanes. Suppliers are prepared to support the rate
increase.

This is Boeing code for "FKCU.........get as many triplers as possible out there -to cover the massive fines we'll be paying for 787 cancellations."

The 787 -"supply chain" experiment has been a disaster.

Time for the QF board to face reality........make a decision BEFORE its too late (ooopps forgot -it is already too late :ugh:)

Oldmate

24th Dec 2010, 06:38

Seems amazing if the difference between profit and loss in air freight is labour costs. No flight attendants, so really we are talking about the difference in pilot pay, which from what I've heard isn't that great between pax and freight ops. I thought a lots of the legacy airline overheads were to do with passenger lounges, check-in staff, catering etc which wouldn't apply to cargo. Not sure how stand alone cargo airlines save much in maintenance, fuel and capital cost of equipment.

Think there would be a cost saving being able to tap into a legacy airline's maintenance system, training system, and by using an under utilized pilot group that is being paid regardless.