French licence conversion to CAA UK [Archive]

BAe146s make me cry

19th Jun 2010, 23:39

No-hoper

I agree with your comment on Part 66 Form 19s.

However...

Below is a FAQ page from EASA's Standardisation website. Please scroll down to Question/Answer #17. What does EASA actually state about Part 66 licences issued by different NAAs? (Note: This information has been published for 5 years, so if it were incorrect surely it would not be included.)

Rulemaking | Frequently Asked Questions (F.A.Q.) (http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/r_faq_the3.php)

BAe

aztek

20th Jun 2010, 08:53

Thanks a lot BAE146 for your help...:D

no-hoper

20th Jun 2010, 09:50

BAe,point # 17 is interesting-no doubt.The idea in 2005 was to enable the conversion of a national AML to a Part 66 of another country.But if you once received a Part 66 you have to deal with the authorities of the issuing country.My AML was converted in 1995 to another country-
was a nightmare !
Then the AML was converted to JAR 66 -a bigger nightmare !
JAR 66 to EASA Part 66 was ok...
Due to my own licence history i was always involved in the changes of
regulations.I never heard of a conversion of a Part 66 from one country to
another one.

Masen,good luck and pls keep us updated

aztek

20th Jun 2010, 15:30

OK no-hoper. I sent a message to the CAA and i hope the answer will be quick...i'm keeping you in touch...THANKS

Bus429

25th Jun 2010, 20:29

I somehow know what the answer from PLD will be...

BAe146s make me cry

28th Jun 2010, 18:24

Likewise Bus. If people were to remember the converted FAA A&P approved personnel to Part 66 B1 British Airways & Virgin Atlantic staff of 2006, anything is possible for the right amount ££££. Thank Christ these UKCAA staff don't actually maintain live aircraft as they (and EASA) appear barely fit to regulate us.

BAe

MATMAX

28th Jun 2010, 21:31

what is the point of converting a License ???

ueuser

20th Jul 2010, 17:52

I can just guess that there is one company that is looking for engineers, they approve few kind of license and also EASA issued in UK
For Europe companies it doesnt mater witch country issued EASA license they want just EASA

regards

NutLoose

20th Jul 2010, 22:43

I can understand the problems you will have, as France prior to EASA didn't have national licences just approvals, I know an engineer that tried to convert his approvals over before EASA and got nowhere.

Similarly, secondhand, I was informed of a UK CAA licence holder of a full Danish EASA licence, having to sit courses in the UK to remove the limitations he didn't have on his Danish licence because on conversion the Danes did not add any to his Licence, before the UK would issue him a full UK EASA licence, (because in the UK they would have put the limitations on his Licence), all because he wanted to work back in the UK and they wouldn't recognise the none limited Danish Licence...... Even though he had in effect a clean EASA Licence...........

Hope you understand that.

nodrama

20th Jul 2010, 23:21

Even UK licence holders have problems with the CAA when it comes to licence/type issue & restriction removal. If the history of you obtaining your EASA licence doesn't include the passing of all the modules, and the experience required, in accordance with whats on the CAA website....I foresee problems with you converting to a UK license.

You may not understand this, though some of the UK guys will, do you have Masons in France??

MATMAX

22nd Jul 2010, 06:35

NutLoose

22nd Jul 2010, 09:22

everybody knows that we understand nothing in France.
can you remind me where Toulouse is ?
nodrama , are you looking for a conversion to building houses and buildings ?
do you know uk guys that everything in France is out of charges according licenses ?
cheers.

Your point being?? one could say it would just be a glorified tube train without the wings from the UK, the engines from UK and USA, and all of the other assemblies and sub assemblies built around the world..... there is a difference between "building aircraft" and simply putting together a kit of parts from the rest of the world..

We were not having a pop at him, just pointing out the difficulties he would incur, he asked and everyone answered honestly..

nodrama

22nd Jul 2010, 16:34

do you have Masons in France?? was a referral to Free Masons, and their alleged ability to 'get things done' where others fail, due to their associated contacts within the society. It is rumoured that there may be such people within the CAA (:eek:)......

not such a dig at the French now, is it? Feel better?

Bidalot

24th Jul 2010, 16:17

can you remind me where Toulouse is

Jepp, although asked a thousand times before by you,
I will help you out.
approx 43 deg 36'36 N / 1 deg 26'34 E

Hope this helps

aztek

29th Jul 2010, 00:19

@ no-hoper this is the answer of the caa and bus429 you was right:

"Dear Sir

There are currently no provisions with the regulation for a change of state of licence issue.

The Part-66 Aircraft Maintenance Licence is recognised in all Member States and it is not necessary to change the document.

Many thanks

Mrs C Mundie
L&TS"

masen

aztek

29th Jul 2010, 00:37

My problem is mr nutloose, that when i want to work in Malaysia or an other contry in asia, they refused licence EASA except that resulting in Great britain.
All company there want only work with B1 EASA licence issued in UK ...I have the same licence with an british mechanic and i don't understand why this segregation....

masen

spannersatcx

29th Jul 2010, 07:34

From an earlier post France prior to EASA didn't have national licences just approvals therefore it is hard to judge at what level these approved persons were at when they were given their licences, all UK issued licences were gained by examination after examination after examination.

This is not a slight against anyone just as it is seen by employers looking for certain qualities.

aztek

29th Jul 2010, 10:16

My question to the CAA:

"Hi Mrs Mundie,
but why in Malaysia or other contry in asia, they refused licence EASA except that resulting in Great britain?
Regards."

The answer of the CAA:
"Dear Sir

We regret we are unable to comment on the requirements of other countries. We can only re-iterate that there is no provision within the Regulation for Change of State of licence issue.

Many thanks

Mrs C Mundie
L&TS"

No comment!

NutLoose

29th Jul 2010, 14:40

help with info to convert My ICAO license to EASA - Page 2 - Aircraft Engineers Bulletin Board (http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6253&page=2)

mardypants (http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=12788) http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 24

http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: help with info to convert My ICAO license to EASA
The declaration that you sign on your Form 19 (Engineers Licence Application) states:

"I have not applied to any other JAA/EASA Member State Authority, I do not hold a Part-66 licence issued by any other JAA/EASA Member
State and I will not be applying to any such Authority for a Part-66 licence."

So the long and short is you cannot hold two EASA licences.

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 16:03

converting my French license , i would say : NFI.
now , if somebody wants to test the quality of my way of working , no probs , send me a ticket and you will see ...
PS: you can choose between these types to test me : 330 , 340 , 340-500/600 , 767 , 747 , 744 and 777 ... or all of them , if you want ! or ask me to do a lockwiring by hand with closed eyes ...
Cheers and Brgds.
MM.

Safety Concerns

29th Jul 2010, 16:14

matmax have you ever worked for a quality company or do you jump ship before they catch you out?

NWT

29th Jul 2010, 16:20

The whole point is that certain Eu countries licenses (France etc) were considered not as good as other countries (UK etc), so after the conversion to a 'level playing field' for EASA licenses, some countries engineers got a full B1/B2 on the basis of what they currently held, and the fact that certain countries (UK) had a world recognised exam path to get those licenses meant that the new JAR66 is only worth having if issued in certain countries. I do not mean to put down engineers from any particular country but you can see that the path to achieve the old licences were a bit different across Europe so how they can issue a common licence based on them is beyond belief....it is now showing up in job adverts as you have seen....

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 16:24

SC,
you are welcome.
my previous companies : ek and af ...
quality companies ?
is it a proposal?

Safety Concerns

29th Jul 2010, 16:39

madmax my question still stands. AF well you could write a book about them.

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 16:39

Mates,
go on thinking you are the only one , you will go far.
i have helped some Brits who made some mistakes before and i am still helping some nowadays not only because i am their Shift Manager but thats a way of thinking ... and i am not taking myself for God as some other guys here ...
do you need names and places and companies ?
it is not because a country got a Licensing system before another one that their Engineers are "better"...
was it a proof that you were not a butcher or a baker ?
have a look on your ex-colonies , some of their Engineers have a higher level ... think about it !
Cheers and Brgds.
MM.

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 16:49

SC,
about AF , the launch company of the 777-300 ER , who never land before the runway because of frozen fuel in the engines ...
AF , the first european airlines for the 380 .
I am not working for AF anymore ...
any thing to say about EK ?
ah yes , they are dreaming to be an airline like AF ...
a book can not be written about BA ?
SC , we are going to drift from the thread.

Safety Concerns

29th Jul 2010, 16:59

madmax, BA wrote the book.

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 17:10

SC,
first of all , if you are really 55 , you get my respect.
second , "BA wrote the book" , that was easy but well played (are you really sure ?) ...
third , my question still stands , is it a proposal ?
good !!! i get a new friend !!!
i was not here for nothing or to be banned ...
Cheers and Brgds.
MM.

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 17:20

BA wrote the book ...

from wikipedia (sorry in French):

British Airways est la troisième compagnie aérienne européenne après le groupe Air France-KLM (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France-KLM) et l'allemand Lufthansa (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa).

they also say that BA was created in 1974 and AF in 1933.
SC , Who wrote the book ???
Cheers and Brgds.
MM.

Safety Concerns

29th Jul 2010, 17:25

madmax your history is as sound as the maginot line.

Imperial Airways (1924) eventually became BA

Who wrote the book?

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 17:38

SC ,
you are right about Imperial Airways , as per wikipedia , but sorry sir , even my son who is 7 years , can read the difference between Imperial Airways and British Airways ...
sorry about my arrogancy , i have learned that when i was in very hot place , close to hell with some Br....h guys ...
can you , anyway understand this :
British Airways est la troisième compagnie aérienne européenne après le groupe Air France-KLM (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France-KLM) et l'allemand Lufthansa (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLufthansa&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewre ply%26noquote%3D1%26p%3D5837422)
if you need a translation , it will be a pleasure for me to help.
as i said we are drifting ...

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 17:49

wiki also says : BA , 234 A/C and AF , 413 ...
is it comparable ?

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 17:51

nearly double for the frenchies , nope ?

spannersatcx

29th Jul 2010, 18:23

I see we're back to the same old arguement again.:ugh:

Nobody is boasting or saying who's better than who. The system is such that employers in certain countries prefer people with licences from certain other countries, rightly or wrongly that is a fact.:sad:

MATMAX

29th Jul 2010, 18:46

yes , spanners maybe wrongly ...
anyway , not a big deal for me.
how can you judge without knowing ?
UK or France , are we not both europeans ? and we are using the same money ... oooppss , sorry .
from NWT : The whole point is that certain Eu countries licenses (France etc) were considered not as good as other countries (UK etc) ...
consideration is a feeling (and not certain) , not a fact !
Cheers and Brgds.
MM.

NutLoose

29th Jul 2010, 21:53

MATMAX, Safety Concerns, this is not about who's system is better and what you have or what you haven't got, it is about answering the questions asked by aztek as accurately as we can to help him achieve his goal.

If you both, and you seem to have, the urge to rub yourselves up against someone like a couple of prepubescent school boys, go do it somewhere else and let the rest of us get back to trying to help the guy with what we know about the system, myself, I couldn't care less if one Country has approvals or licences, but obviously in the Far East they do, and he is asking a perfectly reasonable question, just because you disagree with one being better than the other does not help his predicament of wanting to get employed out there.

Safety Concerns

29th Jul 2010, 22:17

I think the answer is clear and as madmax states.

You have a french licence, live with it.

I have English, Australian, UAE, FAA. I don't have French and have no intention of obtaining one (unless its free like in France) and I most certainly don't want to severely restrict my employment prospects by having one.

aztek

29th Jul 2010, 23:01

Nutloose, thanks for put this discussion at its basic topic... misters Matmax and SC, please if have nothing to do, you can watch a porn movie for destress...

aztek

29th Jul 2010, 23:21

Now, i'm sure that i'm ****** for manage to work in asia...also that the EASA part66 is a fiction, due to the fact that each country impose their ouwn laws and interpretations...but i'm sure there are some reasons why company at the far east accept only european licence issued in uk. The answer of the CAA for me is clear that there are some agreement beetwem UK regulation and some asian country...is french there is an expression who said "reponse de langue de bois"...:hmm:

Safety Concerns

30th Jul 2010, 06:57

FAA is the best licence of the bunch actually, to your second question,

3 seconds.

MATMAX

30th Jul 2010, 15:20

Dear SC,
was it a release or a cmr ?
Brgds.
MM.

Safety Concerns

30th Jul 2010, 15:34

It was a base release actually (Cat C). Now dare I say who for?

ummmm. who never land before the runway because of frozen fuel in the engines ...the first european airline for the 380.

I wonder could it be so?

oh today is "Le plus beau jour de ma vie"

MATMAX

30th Jul 2010, 15:55

SC,
you said that you get the gcaa License , you are talking about BA , and about 380 , so i think that i get an idea about your present employer ...
It can not be ek , because nobody there get a free access to the net at work except if you brought the file you have to sign (C release) at home , sorry i do not think it was 3 seconds ago ...
anyway , good French words without mistakes , are you learning French ?
if so you should have understood the statement from wiki about BA ...
Brgds.
MM.

grafity

30th Jul 2010, 18:29

This whole UK CAA license being best, kind of irritates me. Personally, I've got an Irish license, and it was gained through sitting the exact same amount of exams, and with the same stringent application of the rules in Part 66.

If anything the Brits have a lot to answer for in the way the route to a Part 66 license has gone. Seen guys in Norwich not too long ago paying thousands of pounds to get "experience" and that probably after paying thousands for their basic training course as well. Then suddenly before they've hair on their balls they've a B license and their parents bank account is empty.

In all fairness, the exams are important to insure a theoretical standard during your initial training and it's good that there's an attempt at having a standard. However the real training towards being a licensed engineer is surely the experience you gain on the job as a technician being mentored and critiqued by a licensed engineer on each job you do till you understand the high standards required, and have a broad range of experience. This is why I think that an apprenticeship with a company who has a vested interest in you becoming a professional engineer (not in how deep your pockets are) is the way to go.

In relation to conversions from the older systems what's the point in a guy who's already certifying on aircraft having to sit 12 or 13 modules to convert his old license/approvals to an EASA license? Are they going to gain a whole amount of knowledge required to do their job that they don't already have? The only real gainer in that one is the National AA's and the 147 schools sitting the exams, screwing more €€€'s out of people.

I've met excellent/rubbish engineers from all over Europe and some of the best ones I know have got their licenses in a cereal box and some of the worst ones I know got them in them in the UK and vice versa.

Moral of the story it's your experience on the job that matters not how many airmech questions you've memorised. :ok:

With regards to AF, if half the story's are true, then wouldn't do your apprenticeship there. :E

MATMAX

30th Jul 2010, 18:54

Bravo and thanks very much grafity !
do i prefer Irish than Brits ? maybe ...
i did my 3 years apprenticeship with AF in the 90s (we were going out from school only for week-ends !)...and then been graduated with a CAP.
now , as most of you do not know what a CAP is , i will put you on the way , that means : Certificat Aptitude Professionnelle , do you understand these French words ?
there were two different options : T1 or T2 , does that remind you something ?
ouf ! there is here one guy who knows something else than whats going on in UK !
Brgds.
MM.

grafity

30th Jul 2010, 20:10

The Irish apprenticeship system is a 4 year apprenticeship with 7 phases alternating between 'on the job' and collage. It worked well, you get a chance to absorb and relate the theory while on the job meanwhile gaining the required experience.

I suspect you refer to the B1 B2s originating from T1 T2s which is fair enough and probably a simplistic concept. On the other hand, whoever convinced EASA (I suspect the infallible UK CAA) that someone who does a so called 147 approved basic course requires a years less experience than someone who has an apprenticeship, obviously had more interest in insuring money hungry schools staying open than aircraft safety.

I don't want to knock the whole UK system as I know some excellent engineers that come from the UK and went through what sound like excellent apprenticeship programs.

MATMAX

31st Jul 2010, 05:26

grafity,
the apprenticeship i have just explained was happening like this 20 years ago , Mate , i am 38 years old ...
this school does not exist anymore ...
nowadays in France , IT IS QUITE THE SAME AS EVERYWHERE IN EUROPE !
i will ask to the apprentices that i get now , if these young w..k..s are ready to go out from facebook at work ! aztek , are you watching porn movies at work ? if you are on a computer , i would suggest you to learn more about A/C and about english speaking as it looks like your level is low and thats maybe the reason why people are not interested in you !
are you going to answer in SMS language ?
now , if you have nothing else to do , i would also suggest you to go away from computers and go help your collegues !
Masen , is it a French name ???
SC , you said that you have an english License , so you should know that it is impossible for you to get a French License , even if it is free of charge , French DGAC is not making money from Engineers ...
Last stuff , my dear new friend , believe me , my French EASA License is absolutely not restricting my employment prospects ... because experienced prospectives employers can understand what it is written in my resume and then understand how i have been trained and how i gained the types who are now on my FRENCH EASA LICENSE , who is not a credit card like the FAA or GCAA ...
Are you learning French with some AIB Field Reps ?
Brgds.
MM.

grafity

31st Jul 2010, 12:12

You seem to carry a lot of chips on your shoulder Matmax. Remember that those young w..k..s you refer too are the future of your airline and it's your job, along with all senior members of staff, to mentor them.
Why do they have access to Facebook at work? Simple solution is don't give them access to the internet. Give them manuals to study if they're bored.
There seems to be a lot of your type around that hate the sight of apprentices, they seem to forget that they were apprentices once themselves.

You complain about Aztecs level of English. My English isn't a 100%, and I'm sure Aztec doesn't profess to having 100% English either, but his proficiency seems to be a lot higher and his posts are a lot easier to understand than yours, so I wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement. You keep commenting on whether or not people understand French phrases, the reality I'm afraid, is that the Aviation language is English. An bhfuil tú ag cáint as gaeilge? Understand that? Do you care whether you do or not?

Anyway, to bring the thread back on track, it is a pity an EASA license isn't accepted as a standard over the world. It's a possibility though that it's as much a political/arrangement issue as it is a safety concern.

Just out of interest, what would be involved in getting FAA A&P license? I know a number of lads who have both EASA and A&P, don't know what was involved in it getting it though. Not only would you be able to apply for the Malaysian jobs but it may also open a lot of other doors you didn't expect. Just a thought.

Regards..

Whinging Tinny

31st Jul 2010, 12:47

Grafity: You beat me to it!

I would say it is a polictical issue like most things in the European 'Community'.
How faceless, non aircraft orientated people in Koeln can dictate aviation policy in Europe is far beyond me.

Basic requirements for getting a FAA A&P license are:

1. Get your application indorsed/signed by a FAA Flight Safety District
Office
You normally have to prove you work on 'N' registered A/C.
2. Sit x3 CBT exams (General, Airframe and Powerplant 70% pass mark)
3. Pass oral and practical examination.

As SC says probably the best one to have as regards to job oppuntunities and flexibility.

aztek

31st Jul 2010, 13:47

Matmax since your first post you peace me off...you represented the perfect image of the basic french AF enginneer, arrogant and reactionary...i know what i say, i did my training in AF, the gender of men like you helped to ensure in france a low level of mind, of professionnal standart. That why since my first contracting in italy with british company, i'm trying more possible to avoid working in france, because i'm sure to meet some guy's like you.
You understood nothing about the purpose of my thread, and if you are not happy about my english, you can send a complaint to the Queen...
I'm french,i'm proud of it and i don't care about you!

Masen

NutLoose

31st Jul 2010, 15:19

To be honest through my eyes as an EASA B1 and C licenced Engineer, and also the holder of a CAA Licence, I do not see it as one Engineer being better than another, I have seen bad engineers holding licences the world over, and good ones having none.............

The reasoning I can see behind the Asian situation is, in the past they employed CAA licenced Engineers and were obviously happy with the "Standard or quality" of those Engineers they employed, therefore why change what you know to be a winning format, and with the change over they have simply continued to source their Engineers from the UK...... languages may also be an issue as well as, and before you ask I am not slagging off any other countries.........

Another one and perhaps a fundamental one and again, I am not having a go at any other countries, but the CAA play by the book, and where other countries would simply convert licences or approvals over to the EASA licence, the CAA will not, therefore to do electrical work a licenced engineer in the UK is required to sit those modules to bring their licences up to full none limited licences.....

Countries like Denmark possibly and maybe France I believe just issued licences with no limitation on and converted them straight across.... PLEASE CONFIRM THIS IF YOU KNOW.

Now I know those that have just recieved licences post EASA would have had to do all the courses to clear them, but those prior would not,

Therefore if I was seeking an engineer I would look at

One............ are they compatible with our old system IE the CAA one we previously used.

Two........... If they have a full licence have they actually completed the extra modules required to hold it and which country did......... UK

Three........... Do they have a full command of the language used in our facility............ English.....

Because there was not an even playing field on the issue of licences as I see it from what I know/ believe, there will be differences as to how those licences are perceived........... which is what we have in Asia.

Aztek I can understand not issuing a UK licence to a French licenced engineer or indeed any engineer in Europe, because if you have your licenced removed off you in say France for a serious error, then you could carry on certifiying on your UK one........ I think that is the reason you cannot hold 2.............. does not stop Doctors though :(

MATMAX

31st Jul 2010, 16:04

aztek kid,
first of all , get some respect to older Engineers , OK .
second , as it looks to me that you do not know about the rules , read them first before asking.
third , nobody learnt you that when you do not know something , the best way of acting was to shut-up instead of saying stupid things.
did you copy kid ?
poor France , thats the next generation ...

spannersatcx

31st Jul 2010, 16:30

get some respect to older Engineers As one of those 'older' engineers, I have to earn respect it is not given.:bored:

MATMAX

31st Jul 2010, 17:39

spanners,
with the last generation , there is a problem of education...
they are at work and not working ...
when you ask them to do something , you can do it yourself , it will be quicker ...
when you explain them something , before you finish , they will tell you that they know already , but the next time the same happens , they don't know ...
sometimes , i get the feeling that i am losing my time with them ...

flame_bringer

31st Jul 2010, 18:38

MATMAX
I think you better choose your words carefully before posting in forums, an engineer is not just a machines fixer, there's much more to it than that, an engineer must be tolerant,understanding,respectful and helpfull, you might meet the technical criteria yet as per your above posts you have none of the attitude requirments of an engineer.
You like to flaunt about your skill's at wire locking or the type rates that you possess, But you also expose a huge deficiency in yourself when you speak with this attitude to people.
If you find any inadequacy in your apprentices why not advise them, Teach them and be tolerant with them, If you want to build a good reputation to french EASA license holder's first thing you should consider is training the apprentices the best way possible seeing as they will resemble your country one day when they work abroad.
I'll tell you what, I ran into many engineers with the same behaviour as yours as i'm an apprentice myself and I had to tolerate all sorts of aggravations coming off those engineer's that think they're the best and cannot withstand the sight of apprentices, And I must tell you its not just apprentices that cannot stand them, Even the managment and thier co-workers they're abominated everywhere, And many of them ultimately resigned because they wouldn't get by wherever they go due to this attitude, It's no good to be concieted and looking down at new people just because you think ''you made it in your career'' not just in aviation but in every other profession,Those people whom you're ''Wasting your time with'' are the outlook of your country, and like spanners said respect is earned not given, Always treat people the way you expect them to treat you.
No wonder everyone reprimands you here I think you better step back and think twice before you post your replies.

MATMAX

1st Aug 2010, 05:59

fb,
i know how clever you are already.
don't you think that i have been through all the things you said already ?
now , if younger guys are not interested in learning things from older guys , no problems for me ... but as their Shift Manager , when i am asking them to do something , they do not have to think , just do it ! they are paid for it !
as you are talking about the outlook of my country maybe some people get a bad idea of it because this wrong reputation had been created by people who are not professionnals in their job , what a pity !
I am here to share my experience and to try to make things move forward for my Brothers Engineers , thats it , thats all ...
Brgds.
MM.

NutLoose

1st Aug 2010, 22:59

i did my 3 years apprenticeship with AF in the 90s (we were going out from school only for week-ends !)...and then been graduated with a CAP.

the apprenticeship i have just explained was happening like this 20 years ago , Mate , i am 38 years old ...

So we are supposed to respect you because of the above??

Get some time in Sonny, I did my apprenticeship in the Mid 70's and have 35 years in the game, I am a Chief Engineer and the certifying Engineer, we are not all youngsters like yourself in both experiance and age......

get some respect to older Engineers

Needs to be earned, and does not come with age.. when you have had a bit more time in the game, you may well find this out. Your attitude sucks and you need to step back and take a reality check.... :=

MATMAX

2nd Aug 2010, 06:38

Mr NutLoose,
you are older than me , so you get my respect .
do you now understand , which kind of respect i am talking about ?
about "professional" respect , i have worked for different companies and you know like me that everytime you are joining another company , you should make your proof again ... this one should be earned !
hope that makes sense ...
"your attitude sucks" , is it a kind of human respect ?
another sort of respect ...?
we are really living in a great era ...
Brgds.
MM.

MATMAX

2nd Aug 2010, 09:34

aztek,
from DAC-AIR321:
"Mutual agreement. La licence AML délivrée au titre des « protected rights » bénéficie
du « Mutual Agreement » c’est à dire qu’elle est reconnue dans tous les Etats membres de
l’UE ."
sorry Guys , Luxembourg is using French Language but i think that everybody will understand "mutual agreement"
Brgds.
MM.

Safety Concerns

3rd Aug 2010, 11:07

as much as I hate to agree with my new found french friend madmax, he is right.

Trouble is in this pc ridden era you are not allowed to say that the youth of today on the whole are a waste of space. Not so much their fault or the so called older generation but the system in place today is cheap and nasty compared with 20 years ago.

good on you madmax for telling it as it is

MATMAX

3rd Aug 2010, 16:55

Sir SC,
I appreciate your post , thank you.
white is white and black is black , nobody will make me believe that 1+1 can be = 3 ...
lets call a dog a dog.
oh ! i remember also when i started to work , i was carrying the toolbox of the old guy i was working with , this happened during two months and i was also holding his torch while he was working , was it a big deal ? nope , and we were not moaning ...
ask it nowadays to even an apprentice ... he will tell you to f..k off !
Sir SC , the system is made by people and people can change so the system can be changed ...
SC , sorry thats maTmax (as you know , I am not Australian ), anyway in Line Maintenance , we are all little bit mad ...
A maybe too much proud Frenchie.
Brgds.
MM.

TURIN

4th Aug 2010, 01:51

What a sad little bunch we are.

The OP asked a polite question and has had to suffer abuse and see his (her?) thread hyjacked by self-serving ego maniacs who have more to say about their own sad existence than, to be honest, most of us really need to know.

Matmax (and others) if you want a willy waving competition join a naturist society.

To the original OP.. It is more to do with historical precedence and the common English language than the perceived difference in quality of one license to another.
As has been said already, Asian MROs 'like' the UK CAA license because they are familiar and comforable with it.

Good Luck in your endeavours and ignore the abuse. :ok:

Gas Bags

4th Aug 2010, 06:24

I agree with Turin. Nothing more will be gained from this thread except more BS. Time for the PADLOCK.

Safety Concerns

4th Aug 2010, 08:12

Having worked in the middle east and far east also as quality assurance I can assure you the reasoning is quality.

These bases have been able to and have accepted any licence in the past. There have of course at times been language issues but the main problem was not even their skills, it was their safety culture or rather lack of it in comparison to your average Brit or Aussie.

So yes you are right, I can give any European a screwdriver and ratchet set and they will do the same job. But ask about safety and consequence of action or lack of action and most Europeans are left looking at the ceiling.

Ask about reporting systems or competent NAA's that provide buckets of useful information and you soon realize that the stipulation about UK licence is from a quality perspective the right one. Whether it will withstand a discrimination challenge, I don't know.

The point is, being liberal is great on the one hand but very dangerous on the other. In utopia we would assist our European colleagues with their safety culture and not knock them. But now with quality of training also going down the toilet I am glad that I have almost reached retirement.

The UK will do what it always does best, nothing until its too late. Thats why the second world war took 6 years instead of months. The warning signs were there for years, Churchill bleated on about it all the time during the early 30's but was just abused and scoffed at.

The UK car industry well there's a story. Anybody see Top Gear the other day. In 1946 the UK exported 98,000 cars to the rest of the world and imported 63. Yes 63 not 63,000. The warnings signs were there in the late 50's early 60's that the world beating UK car industry needs to pay attention. It didn't and disappeared.

The UK licensing situation is no different. You can play the liberal if you wish and play up second rate engineers as being equal, but you do so at your own cost.

Safety Concerns

4th Aug 2010, 09:31

The answer was in the post if had read and understood instead of stalked. Do you come on here only to stalk, very sad.

By the way, a forty year old who comes on here asking pilots how he can become a pilot is very sad indeed. Have you no initiative of your own. No wonder you were between jobs.

Whats Bulgaria got to do with anything?

Safety Concerns

4th Aug 2010, 09:44

After you clown. You tell everything about yourself and honestly now and I will happily follow. Did I ever issue you an authorisation?:eek:

By the way on the subject of honesty, why claim you are in Melbourne when now apparently you are a Bulgarian engineer? Your posting times don't support Melbourne either.

Habitual liar or just hiding who you are?

Safety Concerns

4th Aug 2010, 10:05

I am actually dual nationality French/Canadian with a UK licence. I have worked all over the world, hands on and quality and have met literally thousands of licence holders from all over the world. I have also worked closely with numerous authorities.

I am currently in the UK, hands on because I want to retire here.

If I ever needed to be convinced about quality which I didn't its being proven right here and now. The truth whether you can accept it or not is really quite simple.

The UK clearly leads the way on a par with Australia. Australia may even have the edge now as a result of EASA. Some European countries come close to the UK CAA but most lag well behind. Many still don't have reporting systems for example.

But the real issue as I said isn't about using a screwdriver or spanner. The real issue is about culture, safety culture. Many Europeans are excellent with their hands, will match you yard for yard on the job until you hit a safety call. That's where your UK and Aussie LAME scores big points.

I don't see what you hope to achieve by calling black, white. Once you have experience of the bigger picture and saw where safety within this industry is heading you wouldn't make the comments you do. They are indeed genuine but naive.

NutLoose

4th Aug 2010, 18:34

Sigh....... I tried Turin, I really did ............ :*

Sonic Bam

5th Aug 2010, 19:04

Aha, SC = French Canadian, okay, nuff said ..........:p

Sonic Bam

5th Aug 2010, 19:07

Okay, going back to Post 6, the following is still on the EASA website FAQs and a challenge to the CAA is probably in order (not from me though).

17. Should we replace an Aircraft Maintenance License (AML) from one country by the AML of another country if an applicant asks for it (for example because employers outside EASA think a UK AML is better than others)? Will EASA develop a procedure for this? (25/07/2005)

(25/07/2005) It is possible to issue multiple Part-66 licences. It is therefore possible for a Member State to issue a licence to a person who already has one in another Member State. Furthermore, Article 8 of Regulation 1592/2002 specifies that Member States shall, without further technical requirements or evaluation, recognise certificates issued by another Member State. Therefore a licence may be issued by a Member State based on one issued in another Member State. This of course should be accompanied by the adequate communication between Member States as per 66.B.25.

http://easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/faq/commission-regulation-2042-2003-continuing-airworthiness.php (http://easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/faq/commission-regulation-2042-2003-continuing-airworthiness.php)

Alber Ratman

6th Aug 2010, 17:51