Flight and Duty - extended tour

[Capt Peabody]

Hi folks,

If a CHTR pilot is to commence duty at 0700 to depart at 0800L to a destination 1.5 hours away, wait all day in a hotel room and return to the same place in order to clock off no later than 2200 (2130 in this case) can it be done? Of course it can "in operations other than IFR operations". Can it be done if only the flight out (before the tour exceeds 11 hours) when the pilot could not possibly be suffering from duty induced fatigue) were IFR and the rest VFR?

I tend to interpret CAO 48.1 para 1.17 (below) as restricting only the offending hours (i.e. those above 11 or 12 hours as the case may be). An authority figure disagrees and whilst I don't plan on fighting the issue I'd be interested in hearing a few PPRuNers' thoughts.

Cheers,

Capt Peabody

CAO 48.1 para 1.17 reads
1.17 Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1.3, 1.4 and 1.10 of this subsection, a charter or aerial work operator may roster a pilot to fly an aircraft of less than 5 700 kg maximum take-off weight, and a pilot may fly such an aircraft, in operations other than I.F.R. operations during a tour of duty in excess of 11 hours but not exceeding 15 hours, subject to the following provisions:
(a) the operator shall ensure that a period of not less than 4 consecutive hours, during which the pilot shall be free of all duties associated with his or her employment, is available to the pilot within the tour of duty.
(b) the operator shall not roster a pilot to fly, and a pilot shall not fly, 2 consecutive tours of duty each of which is in excess of 11 hours unless a rest period of at least 24 hours is provided at the conclusion of the first tour of duty.
(c) the operator shall not roster a pilot and a pilot shall not fly for more than 2 tours of duty each in excess of 11 hours within 6 consecutive days.
(d) the operator shall not roster a pilot and a pilot shall not fly for more than 6 hours of flight instruction on any tour of duty which is in excess of 11 hours.

[Hans Solo]

Righto Capt.

The way I and others I have flown with over the last 20 years or so have interpreted this is............Once you have flown IFR during that particular duty period you are bound by the "ÏFR" limitations.
In other words, the entire operation needs to be VFR in order to invoke the provisions of the VFR limitations.
It is logical to think of it in this way, for if your first 9 or 10 hours of duty were to include say, 6 or 7 hours of IFR flight in IMC with instrument approaches at each landing point, you are going to be pretty fatigued and this would of course impact on you in your last few hours of duty,regardless of your 2 or 4 hour break.
In other words, the lilmitations you can operate to are based on the most limiting category of flight (IFR or VFR) you operate under for that particular duty period.
Hope this helps.
Hans

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

You shouldn't really be breaching the 11 hrs full stop unless an operational situation requires the extension (eg unplanned holding). CASA tends to frown on a flight that departs knowing it will exced 11/8.

You should make it clear to your pax what the lastest dep time for you is in order not to breach 11/8 (including your post flight duty requirement as per the ops manual).

Most ops manuals will also require a notification to be submitted to the CP and if it happens on a more than weekly basis, CASA may assume you are being rostered in breach of the orders.:ok:

[Hans Solo]

CASA do frown upon it, unless its VFR only!
The provision is written in CAO 48 1.17 to facilitate this extension.
Hans

[TSIO540]

Operationally duties that exceed 11hrs happen frequently. Where I work I fly a turboprop for up to 16hrs with a min 4 hr break (usually 8hrs) in between. This is done with an exemption from CASA.

Without an exemption or doing it as a private operation, you're bound by the standard limit if you've flown IFR in this ToD. There is nothing however to stop you having enough rest to split your duty e.g. 9 or 10 hours rest (i think off the top of my head) as appropriate.

TSIO540

[Capt Peabody]

Thanks all,

Point taken. I shall bow out gracefully with our CASA FOI on monday and seek forgiveness rather than butt heads. (Damn, it sucks being wrong.:8)

It is logical to think of it in this way, for if your first 9 or 10 hours of duty were to include say, 6 or 7 hours of IFR flight in IMC with instrument approaches at each landing point, you are going to be pretty fatigued and this would of course impact on you in your last few hours of duty,regardless of your 2 or 4 hour break.
In other words, the lilmitations you can operate to are based on the most limiting category of flight (IFR or VFR) you operate under for that particular duty period.

Thanks Hans for putting it that way, it does make sense. I probably wasn't thinking worst case scenario. I had a cruisy 1.5 DIFR flight with zero cloud then a more than ample break. If I'd had a hellish IFR battle, a four hour break and then had to NVMC my way back I'd probably be a bit beyond fatigued. If only I'd just gone VFR up there'd be no problem (it was a truly beautiful VMC day after all).

When talking about this flight with the CP in the days leading up to departure he pointed out the requirement for VFR operations and apparently he did mean the whole day but I misunderstood. Good guy though, he stuck up for me... but he definately meant for the whole thing to be VFR.

Lesson learnt,

Capt Peabody

MIHC, I'm not sure that CAO 48.0 p 1.17 is meant to provide extension relief. I think that it's meant to be used at the flight planning / rostering stage.