Are airshows getting tamer?

[Okavango]

I remember when I was a lad, going to Woodford, Finningley, Farnborough etc etc and seeing Jags, Lightning, Harrier, Tornado GR3 and F2, Phantom, F111, F16, F15, Hornet, Blackbird, Concord, Vulcan, Rafale and Viggen to name but a few. Only a few of these are now displaying looking at the few airshows that remain, with the addition of fairly tame displays of US stealth bombers in return and with maybe just Eurofighter any reason to draw breath. Are modern airshows not a bit tame compared to what they once were?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Totally.....

Bearing in mind that there are fewer manufacturers due to mergers/takeovers, therefore fewer types of aircraft in general, many more airforces overstretched due to cuts and deployments, many more rules about how close displaying aircraft can be to the crowd line and then the costs involved with flying, very much increased from yesteryear, it should be no suprise.

Just wait until 20 years from now when the shows will be all about who has the the best UAV, and the pilots will be kids playing somewhere today in a living room with a PSP/Wii/Gameboy :8



SHJ

[Mr Angry from Purley]

just come back from the Berlin Airshow and my personal highlight was the Red Bull DC6!. :\

[JEM60]

Yes, I am afraid they are, and it is inevitable for reasons already stated.
Those of us who are old enough have many happy memories of great shows, here and abroad. I went to my sixth Oshkosh, Wisconsin, show last year, and, as I am not a photographer, decided that there was nothing new to entertain me, so I have closed the door on virtually all Airshows, except for Rougham, in Suffolk, which was a magnificent show last year, and is local, as is Duxford, which I would never miss.
Going to Airshows was a hobby for a number of years, and reulted in my travelling to many places, including Lightnings in South Africa, Russia, Israel, Venezuela etc.,
Guess I have got a bit bored with grey F.16s etc, and now prefer to see the best flying in the world at Duxford shows. [Flying Legends coming up soon!!!] The future of more variety doesn't look too encouraging I'm sorry to say. Great times in the past.

[Kiltrash]

Totally agree, I remember the gay abandon before health and safety took all the risk, and fun, out of airshows being blasted by hi subsonic?(low super sonic) fighter jets from behind the crowd line while the crowd attention was held to the front. What the F$$k was that:eek: with Starfighters and F111's

However the best was a visit late60's early 70's taken on a family cruise from San Diego and we were taken to stand off a US carrier, doing launches and recovery with training low level fly pasts with Phantoms I think and deffinatly F14's doing as Maverick says " request a fly by" and after flying was over taken aboard and given a tour of the ship and witnessed the planes departing to their shore base

Awsome

[PaperTiger]

Tamer ? Yes. See: Ramstein :sad:

I remember the Red Arrows Gnats (yes, Gnats) doing their opposition manoeuvres right over the crowd at Biggin one year. While I'm not averse to loud noises and some b***s-out flying, that DID put the wind up me a bit.

[Ridge Runner]

Those with a number of years under their belts will remember some great shows with great performances. Sometimes these weren't approved either. Does anyone remember the close to supersonic pass of the Viking's F-104 at Fairford?

I recall BoB shows at Biggin Hill in the 1960s and 70s. I have lots of grainy B&W shots of performing aircraft overhead, something unheard of now unless you are in a part of the world that still draws a correct balance between entertainment and H&S. However, in the "olden days" there were also boring performances too. The Yanks, for example, never did anything more than a single pass down the runway - dead dull! A flypast by F-100s or a KB-50 might be great in terms of subject matter but it was boring in terms of entertainment.

I was refreshed this year by my first visit to the La Ferte Alais show which was simply wonderful! The Duxford shows were referred too earlier but LFA knocks them in to a cocked hat for sure. There was even one "overhead" item (not-intentional I guess)!

RR

[GANNET FAN]

Ridge Runner, you mean when almost over the spectators they went virtually vertical with full after burner...magic. And later with one trolling along about 500 feet (guess) over the runway, and suddenly another flew ball breakingly fast underneath it!!

[JEM60]

Fairford one year when the Soviets were there. Remember looking up at 27 tons of SU27 coming down vertically tail first straight at me in the crowd. Rehearsal only, then tea and biscuits with the display safety officer, I imagine. It was not repeated. La Ferte very good, once saw a Vatour there, plus the Patrouille De France with a Mystere 1V in the middle of the Alpha jets. It was in Team Colours too.

[Ridge Runner]

Ah, the Vautour..... You were lucky!!

And yes, Gannet Fan, that kind of thing! Sadly all a memory now unless you're in Russia or somewhere with an adversion to yellow coats!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I used to think Farnborough was reasonable until about 20 years ago. Now it all health and safety and long delays between displays, not to mention an arm and leg to get in! Couple of years back we went to a show at Duxford which was amazing. The sky was busy the whole time.. brilliant.

[MAN777]

RIAT 2010 Fairford

Several Migs are due to perform so cant be all bad :)

[Ridge Runner]

And a Sri Lankan AN32... but it can't beat seeing them at their home base!!

[L4key]

Yeah Woodford Airshow was crap this year. :{

[RedhillPhil]

About 1960/1 Ta Kali, Malta. Canberra dropping live ordnance. Pretty impressive and scary for a 10/11 year old!

[MAN777]

Tiger Meet Cambrai France 1986 ?

I was stood on the runway pavement edge in my PR RAF photographer role along with 1/2 dozen French airforce photographers when a Mirage 4 (Nuclear bomber) taxied out for a simulated tactical departure, I was a bit puzzled when my non english speaking colleagues started to withdraw towards the crowd line, I presumed they had seen it many times before and were not interested in the departure, 30 seconds later I was lying on my belly gasping for air as the Mirage had turned the air black with rocket fuel fumes as it performed a JATO assisted take off, absolutely awesome, dont think my lungs ever recovered :)

Not my photo (i was much closer) but you get the picture !!

http://worldweapon.ru/images/sam/mirage4/mirage4_02.jpg

[Basil]

I remember the Red Arrows Gnats
Some years ago we were flying the Tiller Girls support equipment from Kemble (IIRC) and, as we walked across to our Argosy, they decided to frighten the truckies.
I stood my ground and didn't duck but only because I could still see a tiny bit of sky between my attacker and the horizon. :eek:

[Knife-Edge]

(R)IAT Greenham Common. Don't recall the year (guess early 80's) but think it was a Canadian Team of F-104's, possibly 5 a/c. Start their show with full afterburn arrival from crowd rear line abreast... awsome!

Also remember long line of Harriers in the hover in front of the crowd. Seems to be rare to see even a single Harrier display anywhere these days due op comitments I guess., though would have thought the OCU could spare one at weekends.

[Tulsablue]

There is some excitement to come soon, I recently visited Tulsa Oklahoma and went to the Rocket racing airshow:
QuikTrip Air and Rocket Racing Show (http://www.tulsaairshow.com/)

This is where in the future, pilots will race through "virtual gates in the sky". A couple of days after the show, I visited the museum itself and sure enough there was a computer simulation and the kids who were good at games found the sim fairly easy. The world is changing!!.

One great highlight for me personally was I got to meet and shake hands with a childhood hero, Buzz Aldrin :D.

[GANNET FAN]

Knife Edge, that's the one that I was writing about above. Talk about death by afterburner, everything shook. And in which case you would remember the 2 104s one under the other as I described!

Awe inspiring

[JEM60]

There will [should!] never be over the crowd stuff any more, not because of the nanny regulations, but ,of course, because of the horrendous results of things going wrong. Ramstein, and the worst one ever in Ukraine a few years ago Yes, we all attend at our own risk, but the insurance liabilities and implications are enormous in disasters these days, so common sense has prevailed. Personally, I always had this nightmare in my mind of the Vulcan landing at Fairford, from the right, and the left undercarriage collapsing. Where would the aircraft go?, It would turn left, and go straight through the crowd, that, gentlemen etc., would be fact. Accidents like this are now, fortunately in my opinion, anticipated, and all reasonable steps are taken to ensure the publics' safety, but accidents will continue to happen, but with much reduced spectator risk.Enjoy your shows this year [whilst they are still there!]

[Groundloop]

JEM60, your argument does not make sense. The Ramstein accident occured flying along the display line - after the collision one aircraft veered into the crowd.

Regarding arrivals from behind the crowdline - the Red Arrows still do that.

[Ridge Runner]

Tiger Meet Cambrai France 1986 ?


Ah, yes, MAN777, those were the days!!!!

RR
------------------
There's risk in all we do!

www.fromthelens.co.uk (http://www.fromthelens.co.uk)

[PaperTiger]

Groundloop, total BS mate :*

The airplane which initiated the collisions was flying directly towards the crowd. It's not as if there are no videos, photos or accounts which categorically confirm this. eg Ramstein airshow disaster Summary (http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Ramstein_airshow_disaster)

You do know about Google, don't you ? :ugh:

[Knife-Edge]

Knife Edge, that's the one that I was writing about above. Talk about death by afterburner, everything shook. And in which case you would remember the 2 104s one under the other as I described!

Hi GF - Yes that was the German Navy Vikings F104 pair at Fairford where the high speed pass under the slow(ish) pass went trans-sonic with a double boom and the hit of a pressure wave. Very memorable!

The arrival from crowd rear of (I believe five Canadian) F104s on afterburner was much further back in time as it was when the Air Tattoo was at Greenham Common. Bit sketchy on detail because I was a kid at the time.

[MAN777]

Another one that stands out in my airshow memory is the departure of the Soviet TU22 (?) Backfire bomber at Farnborough air show (90s ?) probably the loudest jet engine I have ever heard.

Incidentally the very same Backfire is on display at the Ukraine air force museum at Kiev, the same museum also hosts the very same Sukhoi that shot down the Korean B747 !!

[Flightman]

Re the TU-22 at FAB, I was there that day.

Even Concorde at full chat was quiet compared to that thing. God it was painful. :D

[JEM60]

GROUNDLOOP.
To arrive from behind the display crowdline, display items need a special dispensation from the CAA. The Red Arrows have this dispensation. Can't think of any other recent items that have this, and, as said, the Ramstein aircraft that caused the disaster was flying towards the crowd, and flew through, rather than underneath [as planned] the main formation. The other two aircraft that crashed as a result were along the display line.
Perhaps my argument now makes sense?

[Ridge Runner]

Incidentally the very same Backfire is on display at the Ukraine air force museum at Kiev, the same museum also hosts the very same Sukhoi that shot down the Korean B747 !!

Yes, a nice museum (not the AF but the University)! A bit quiet, though, apart from the AN-26s etc in the circuit on training! I recall a Nicaraguan AF AN-26 when I was there....

Also to correct some on this thread (I think), the "Red Indians" approached without afterburner.. Even so it was still a fab experience.....

Oh, and over the top? .......http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/DSC_5945pprune-1.jpg

RR

[Groundloop]

You do know about Google, don't you ?

I did use Google. Infortunately the video I watched was very unclear. Have watched other much better ones now so I withdraw my argument, m'lud.

[carlrsymington]

I've been to Farnborough (seen, heard and felt the Backfire), Prestwick in the early eighties and RIAT at Fairford 98?. All were great but none as involving as a trip to Indianapolis Airshow which co-incided with a work trip. Great line up but the action was really up close and personal. Aircraft were almost taxying through the crowd, moved aside by stewards, people were picnicking behind a F4 Corsair with the blades turning, which sent the lot flying. F17 Fortress with couple of engines turning and everyone wandering around in front of it. Sheriff's helicopter overflew the crowd line, blowing over bins and anything else loose, to land and offload what looked like crates of beer... :ok:
Not my photos but worth visiting if you can
Indianapolis Air Show 2008 - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21646308@N03/sets/72157606891921598/)

Are all airshows in the USA as close to the action?

[JEM60]

CARLSYMINGTON.
Certainly Oshkosh, Wisconsin is up
extremely close and personal in the aircraft parks, but expect be to be bossed about by hordes of marshals who seem to think that people have no common sense, and can't see a B.25 Mitchell taxiing head on at 25 yards.
They are, however, only doing their jobs, and it is a great place to be. Of the other shows, mostly military, that I have attended in the States, no, you cannot get so close. My experience only.

[Knife-Edge]

F111 torch pass - igniting it's fuel dump with the afterburners!!

It was the Air Tattoo but I can't remember if it was late Greenham Common an early Fairford show or the one year that it was at Boscombe Down.

[candoo]

Sooo, anyone going to Farnborough this year?

Once again am on stand duty for the week (or so) trying to do business whilst appreciating the various sounds from outside and wishing I could see and enjoy them.

I too think it far too expensive, and prohibitive for the first few days, to get in. Maximum publicity and exposure should be important for all concerned and not just the priviliged few.

Black Mercs will abound for those with the special passes whilst the downtrodden are just, errr, downtrodden.

I guess business is business :sad:

[Gulf4uk]

What people dont really understand is that Farnborough is a trade
Show with a few days public events tacked on at the end .
And it upsets people when Aircraft that have been there all
trade week are removed for Weekend as are many exhibition
Stalls its the way its always been i doubt will change .
Entry tickets yes its pricey as are most events these days
but the Anklebiters go free under 16 saves a bit . Food and
Drink expensive as most places but the Crowds will still be there
inside and Out along the perimeter . Farnborough like most shows
has changed Health and Safety is one reason costs another
we will never see the shows of old again .

Tony
farnborough Resident

[Warmtoast]

Low flying always enlivened air displays.

A couple of my photos. The first two of the second prototype Victor at the Biggin Hill B of B display September 1955.

The others (screen-grabs of 8mm cine film) of of Neil Williams, again at Bigginin the 1960's, not sure of year, inverted above the crowd, you don't get much lower than that, and inverted too!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BigginBoBDisplay-HPVictor1-1.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BigginBoBDisplay-HPVictor2-1.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/LowPass1.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/LowPass2.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/LowPass3.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/LowPass4.jpg

[Vino Collapso]

CAP 403 specifies the requirements in the UK

CAP 403: Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to Safety and Administrative Arrangements | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=32)

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Im suprised there has been no mention of Mildenhall, or even Lakenheath. How about the up and coming Waddington in 2 weeks. Mildenhall used to put on a good show as i remember as a kid

[Gulf4uk]

Went to a Mildenhall Show many years ago very enjoyable as were the shows
at Greenham but Bouncey castles and kiddy rides are ruining many a show
but its what brings the cash . And This ELF and Safety thing , By the way
who is this ELF Never met the guy seems he is in everything

Tony :)

[JEM60]

With respect TOWTEAMBASE, the original thread was as to whether Air shows are getting tamer, not about how good they used to be. I admit to being part of the thread creep myself.
Most of us oldies could wax very lyrical about how good they used to be, but that has been done before, but boy, you youngsters missed out!!!
Another thread about Airshows in the nineties and before would not be conducive to your wellbeing [jealousy would be rampant], but it would bring a large smile to our older faces.:)

[shobakker]

Remember well some of the Mildenhall displays - plenty of noisy afterburner stuff going on there - perhaps someone can remind me but did I remember a Blackbird putting on a display there once?

[Ridge Runner]

oh yes.. more than once I think!

[JEM60]

Me being hypocritcal now, inrespect of my last post. Several SR71 displays, including one where the pilot tried to light the afterburners whilst in a fairly high 'g' turn. The fuel did not immediately ignite, but did shortly afterwards, contributing to what were regarded as the best 'photos of the Blackbird ever, with two very large fireballs pursueing the aircraft, but I am sure someone on here will post the pictures. I have it on video,

[PaperTiger]

http://www.sky-flash.com/sr71/03.jpg

[JEM60]

Well done PT:):)

[firstchoice7e7]

They certainly arent getting any tamer in portugal!

YouTube - TAP Airbus A310 Low pass turn Portugal Airshow 2007, Evora (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43P3cBPFx4U)

[Bath Bonnie]

I packed in going after the '86 Mildenhall show, I seem to recall the Blackbird and I think it was the last gathering of Lightnings before they were all retired, that was (both) some sight and sound.
Unfortunately it was marred by the tragic accident of the Vintage pair, I was sick to my stomach after I saw what happened, especially as Sqdn Leader Dave Marchant had organised an hours flight for me and another chap in a J.P. from Leeming a few months earlier when we were on a course, he was a bit luckier as he managed to eject and survive as did his passenger.
Now adays the entrance cost puts me off, as does all the queing.

[JEM60]

86 Mildenhall. As you say, marred by the accident, the 2nd of eleven I subsequently saw, but not a gathering of Lightnings. It was a Strike Force demo of a Lightning, Phantom and a Hawk, so only one Lightning. I thought it would be the last sight of a Lightning for me in the air, but I was on the beach in South Africa, near Hermanus, in 2005, heard a noise, looked up to see the Boscombe Down Buccaneer, Lightning F.6, and a yellow s'seat Hunter in close formation at 500 feet. Sometimes there is a God!!![no offence to anybody].:)Went to Thunder City after that, of course!

[shobakker]

That's it - would have been 86 Mildenhall show - they were cracking days out, used to go with my Dad...cold Bud & hot dogs - those were the days!

[sharksandwich]

Bournmouth is getting better each year as it attracts more visitors.
And it's free!
Bournemouth Air Festival - Bournemouth Air Show/Display (http://www.bournemouth.co.uk/site/whats-on/bournemouth-air-festival-2010)

[FBS]

Airshows don't have to be dull or dangerous. You just need to add some thought into getting interesting acts. Take a look at the line up for Jersey. Jersey International Air Display - Rumours and News (http://www.jerseyairdisplay.org.uk/news/index.php) Mike Higgins and his team put real effort into making it as interesting as they can.

[andrewmcharlton]

Don't the Arrows normally arrive in on a 45 to the datum these days? It's a long time since I saw a crowd rear arrival from them...

[Groundloop]

Don't the Arrows normally arrive in on a 45 to the datum these days? It's a long time since I saw a crowd rear arrival from them...

Well, they did rear arrivals at Bournemouth and Swanage last year but 45 from the front at the private display near Lymington. Probably depends on combinations of terrain and airspace restrictions.