Ad in loop, May edition

[silverknapper]

Just flicking through May's edition of Loop. Happened upon an advert on p42 for PTC in Ireland. I always read ads for big flight schools. It's interesting to see their 'take' on the current, dismal situation.
I happened upon a few gems which I take issue with, and would actually consider to be false advertising. A couple of examples:

...what makes PTC one of the leading suppliers of commercial pilots to the major airlines like Emirates, Flybe, Virgin, Quantas and Ryanair,

I would be particularly interested in a statement from PTC on the number of pilots they have supplied from their school directly to Emirates, VIRGIN!!!! and Quantas in the last few years. And do FTE not supply Flybe with any ab initio requirement now?

Not only has the number of jobs remained fairly constant , the downturn is in fact masking an iminent and serious pilot shortage.......

Silly me! I am so glad they have let me in to this secret!

As a guide training to become a pilot will cost less than one years salary for a captain, a level reached by most graduates within 5 years

Now I can't find their integrated cost on their web site. But lets assume €80k. I would be very surprised to find a Captain at Flybe earning that. But if their claim is correct and a graduate will be a Virgin skipper five years after leaving their college what is there to worry about?!?!

I am surprised that Loop publishes this drivel. yes they may be advertisers but surely someone has a duty to ensure compliance with reasonable trading standards laws.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

SK

[UAV689]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/415970-lies-dam-lies.html

I wrote about this very ad when it came out, thing is there are mugs and muppets that believe this horse manure.

[alphaadrian]

I was actually looking at this ad myself just earlier today and I couldnt believe what utter crap and rubbish it was:ugh:.

Here was me mistakenly thinking that one needed several thousand hours on heavy jets to get into Virgin when all along they were after 200hour wannabes....hehe!

Now RYR...thats a totally different story!!!


Alpha:ok:

[Greg2041]

It would appear from this advert that Alistair Campbell has got himself a new job. :D

[dwshimoda]

In normal circumstances you need 4,000 hours to apply to Virgin. I have a very close friend who is a 7 year FO at VS (with over 10,000 TT) and doesn't know when they will get command.

That should give you an idea of the truth of that advert...

[fanda78]

...I haven't seen the advert but is there any chance they meant Virgin Blue in Australia?

[hollingworthp]

Or maybe the megastores? ;-)

[OutsideCAS]

......so, has anyone contacted Trading Standards with the details of the (allegedly false) advert running in Loop ??

[G SXTY]

They're having a laugh.

...what makes PTC one of the leading suppliers of commercial pilots to the major airlines like Emirates, Flybe, Virgin, Quantas and Ryanair,
Virgin Nigeria possibly, Virgin Atlantic – not a chance. And Emirates with 200 hours? Yeah, right. Flybe and Ryanair take people from many schools, integrated and modular, so PTC's name dropping is pretty irrelevant.

Not only has the number of jobs remained fairly constant , the downturn is in fact masking an iminent and serious pilot shortage.......
Ah yes, the old 'pilot shortage' story. Try telling that to the many, many CPLs who are currently unemployed or working as dispatchers or cabin crew. It'll be a great comfort. Let's be clear - there is not, has never been, and will never be a shortage of 200 hour wannabes desperate for a first job. Never, ever, ever. There may occasionally by temporary shortages of experienced, type rated ATPLs (particularly captains) – and particularly for turboprop operators, who struggle to retain people when times are good, simply because they don't pay well enough. It does not translate to the inexperienced end of the market – there are simply too many CVs out there.

As a guide training to become a pilot will cost less than one years salary for a captain, a level reached by most graduates within 5 years
A bold, bold statement. Starting salary at Flybe for the left seat of a Dash is £53,500, plus around 10% allowances. Gross. How does that compare to the price of an integrated course? Even without dissecting the numbers, their not-so-subtle message is clear – train with us and you can make your money back within 5 years. To do that requires some pretty heroic assumptions regarding how quickly you will find a job, and then how rapidly you'll make command.

All marketing puff should be taken with a huge pinch of salt, and this is no exception. Caveat emptor, as they say.

[silverknapper]

ASA - Online complaints form (http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints-and-ASA-action/How-to-complain/Online-Form.aspx)

[potkettleblack]

Might have had a bunch of local cadets over from Emirates. Taking the pish though in true Ryanair style if its the case.

[mad_jock]

Can someone scan it in and post it please the Advertising complaints want a copy. My copy is sitting at home miles away

[downwind24]

I also read this and almost fell off my chair laughing , i then passed it to my friend who left Cabair almost 2 years ago and after sending 100's if not 1000's of CV's out and getting no response from 99% also had a chuckle (very wryly).

I may even send it to the guy from CTC who is 105k in debt and considering bankruptcy as his flexicrew deal isnt quite working so has to work in Tesco to pay his 'mega loan'

Anyway must dash as im now on 210 hours and need to wing a CV to Emirates and Virgin before anyone else reads the advert.................

[Greg2041]

Anyway must dash as im now on 210 hours and need to wing a CV to Emirates and Virgin before anyone else reads the advert.................


Downwind24, you are so silly, you know you need 250 hours! :=

[mad_jock]

As a serious point.

We all need to contact the advertising standards agency when we see these things and not just bitch and take the piss on pprune.

I don't think we will quite get to the stage they will be saying "come learn to be a commercial pilot with us, but you will only have a 10% chance of getting a job afterwards"

So could someone please take the time to scan the advert in so I can email it to them.

[UAV689]

Mad jock, i second that, i dont have a scanner but if someone does I will also complain regarding this drivel.

[24seven]

lets hope this works

PTC Advert (http://tinypic.com/r/bgqpli/6)

[mad_jock]

Perfect thanks very much

Just to note if anyone else is going to send it in change the file name otherwise we run the risk of them saying it was an organised complaint instead of personal complaint.

[UAV689]

submitted.

[HomerJay]

80? It was 95k a few years ago

One of their students has an excellent website up blogging his progress in flight training. He finished early last year and hasnt even got an interview yet. Not one!

[mandyboo]

:D My lad had seen this article and was about to contact them to pay for the 1 day assessment package, £200 approx, he already has 18 hrs in his log book and works evenings to pay for his lessons, he is only 16yrs old, when he seen this article it seemed as an ideal opportunity as you are guaranteed work after you have lined thier pockets' so to say, thank god I looked on here 1st, all of you are amazing to actually take the time to put things like this scam on here it saves alot of heartache for normal people, he has been scouring this site for the last 4 hours and has learnt more here than he could have from listening to the so called proffesionals who can guarantee you jobs in this industry!!! Thank you all and keep up the good work :D:D:D:D:D

[UAV689]

Hi All -

Just a quick update, the Ad deemed unsuitable by the Advertising standards authority, PTC tried to defend it but themselves agreed they were misleading.

The best bit I thought was the leading supplier of Pilots to Virgin atlantic comment, it turns out they have one current VS employee studying with them, hardly the leading supplier!

BUYERS BEWARE!!

Take anything that that these marketing schools tell you with a very large pinch of salt. They are good sales people and know what you want to hear. If I see anymore ad's of this type spouting garbage I shall be complaining again.

UAV

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

Can the ASA take any action against a company based in Ireland?

By the looks of it it looks more like an advertising feature in the magazine with quotes and interviews, maybe it should be Loop Magazine who are taken to task for publishing it.

[mad_jock]

Its not the way it works Genius loop isn't liable for the content of adverts.

Please find the full report here.

ASA - ASA Adjudication on The Pilot Training College (http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints-and-ASA-action/Adjudications/2010/10/The-Pilot-Training-College/TF_ADJ_49147.aspx).

They were found to be in breach of CAP Code clauses 3.1 (Substantiation) and 7.1 (Truthfulness).

The advert will not be allowed to appear again in UK press. But as the ASA has no powers in Ireland thay can proberly continue to use it there.

[silverknapper]

Interesting reading.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Nice work silverknapper & mad-jock ... glad to see some airline pilots still actually care enough about this kind of predatory nonsense to go to the trouble of writing to the ASA, as opposed to just moaning on pprune about it :ok:

[mad_jock]

UAV689 had a bit to do with it as well.

I have actually been quite suprised how easy it was and how it all flowed.

Intially you get a rather snotty email demanding certain copies and information and almost threatening that you will be outed and your name will be published.

You then send them proof that your not a competitor and will get no benefit from the complaint. Send a copy of the advert. Then you don't hear anything for a bit. Then a lot more pleasant email comes in from I presume someone more senior explaining whats happening and what the process is. You don't need to do anything at that point. They then email you with what they have found and ask if you have any more points. Then they email you saying that they have asked the advert provider to respond to the complaint. After that they produce a summary report which will be given to the ASA panel. A couple of weeks later you get the panels report but you have to keep stum about it until it is published.

All in all I would say it's well worth doing. The intial email I think is designed to be off putting to weed out Sunday armchair moaners. Just tell them who you are, why you are complaining, the fact that you wouldn't gain anything by bring this complaint. It all flows from there with minimal input from you and an occasional email from them letting you know whats happening.

To be honest thumbs up to them for providing such easy access to there agency and would recommend anyone to make a complaint if they feel something is unfair. I must admit reading the report did bring a smile on my face as the language used was more brutal than I expected or would have used myself.

In the grandscale of bollocks spouted by flying schools its not really going to effect things much. And the projected airframe manufacturing report is still getting used by many in the industry to claim there is going to be a pilot shortage which we all know is bollocks. Its almost as if the "industry" is trying to protect the over supply situation we have now.

[Sporadic E]

There's nothing new about any of it. Anybody who was in the training sector around 2001/02 may remember the name "Pilot Assist". This company famously stated the magic words "job placement" in their glossy brochures and advertising, when in reality they were in a position to offer nothing beyond outsourced PPL training; many of their trainees lost thousands when they went under after a year.

If the training industry was a person it would be diagosed with a chronic antisocial/sociopathic disorder and locked up for its own safety.

[UAV689]

It may have had an effect as I have not seen anymore bolleuax in the press of late. In fact there was quite an honest article in pilot that said quite well how hard, expensive etc the whole cpl process is.

If I see anymore garbage I will ping off to asa again.

[MartinCh]

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