MEP class rating included in CPL training?

[MyIDisthis]

1) Can the MEP class rating be included as either a part of the 15hrs in the ME-IR, or a part of the CPL?

2) If I take the whole CPL course on a single engine aircraft ( whether it's 15 or 25 hours ), then the 6 hrs of MEP class rating and combine it into one skill test - that will give me a CPL with MEP class rating.

Until not too long ago I thought that just like with IR there was a CPL-SE and CPL-ME, but of course there's no such thing. However, could someone just confirm that combining the skill test as written above will give me the right to work as an airline pilot. Because you only need two skill tests, one ME-IR and one CPL/MEP class rating, right?

Thanks.

[PAPI-74]

It is all hereProfessional Air Training (http://www.pat.uk.com/course-structures.html)

[alphaadrian]

1) No


2) CPL and MEP Rating will require 2 separate skill tests. One is a licence and the other is a rating to put on that licence! You could do all of your CPL course on a multi (££££!) but you will still need to have done the 6hours MEP training and a MEP class rating skills test.


If there was a cheaper way to do things, FTOs would already be doing it that way and quoting it as their "best price!"

Alpha:ok:

[BillieBob]

but you will still need to have done the 6hours MEP training and a MEP class rating skills test.Not true. JAR-FCL 1.150(b) states "An applicant for a CPL(A) who has complied with the conditions specified in JAR–FCL 1.140, 1.145 and 1.155 through 1.170 shall have fulfilled the requirements for the issue of a CPL(A) including at least the class/type rating for the aeroplane used in the skill test." i.e. if you do the CPL Skill Test in a twin, you qualify for the issue of a CPL(A) and an MEP Class Rating - no separate MEP skill test is required.

[alphaadrian]

BillieBob

Apologies.You are indeed quite correct!!

Though the cost of doing the whole CPL training and ensuing skill test on a twin would be very a very expensive way of doing things!

Alpha

[mad_jock]

I did my CPL in a twin and it counted for my MEP test for renewal.

I did my IR before CPL and you need the MEP test cert before you do the IR test in a MEP.

And for me it worked out 500 quid more expensive to do it in the twin. But to be honest I really couldn't be bothered fannying around converting onto a complex single, doing glide approaches and PFL's etc. I don't know if doing it as a combine MEP/CPL course would be very easy. But after doing the IR a visual go-around is bread and butter lot less chance of mucking it up than the single engine stuff.

[MyIDisthis]

It would be very expensive to take the whole CPL course on a multi indeed. Correct me if I'm wrong but you could just do all of the CPL training on a single engine, then do the 6 hours of MEP class rating to then have one skill test for both. Or you could do all the hours on a twin, or anything in between. Perhaps it's good to have a couple more than six hrs in order to have some more practice.

I'll be doing 30 hrs of IR-SE training, then 25 hours of CPL, 6 for the MEP CR. CPL/MEP skill test. Then another 15 IR-ME hours to finish with a IR-ME skill test. Anyone here who has done similar?

[mad_jock]

Which licensing authority are you doing this training under?

[MyIDisthis]

I'm not doing it right now, just trying to put it together. If you see a problem with it please let me know, or send me a pm.

[mad_jock]

Not a problem but it depends which authority if you can do it or not.


For example in the UK you have all sorts of options depending which FNPT device is used by the school. If you were to do the IR course in aircraft only with no FNPT time it would cost way more than doing everything in a twin.

It wouldn't be usual for you to spit the IR training up with a CPL in the middle.

[MyIDisthis]

Alright, well I'll be doing almost all hours in an airplane. I've found a great school for this but don't want to give away too many details in the public forum.

I agree that it's a but unusual to have the CPL part in the middle, but it's because I just started with the IR. However I'll be getting more multi hours this way for almost the same price so I'm happy for that.

[mad_jock]

Crack on then if your happy.

Personally I think it will end in tears.

To be honest the only reason to get your twin hours up is to get over the 50hour mark which alot of places require for solo hire insurance. The current job market having 10 more twin hours than the other 1000 cpl/ir sub 500 hour ain't going to make much difference.

[MyIDisthis]

I won't be taking the IR-SE skill test, I'll be going directly for the IR-ME course which includes 15 hours of multi engine hours instead of taking the IR-SE skill test, then have the 5h add on plus a new skill test in order to receive the IR-ME.

That way I'll get more practice in a multi engine A/C for the IR-ME skill test. For employment those hours mean nothing but they will mean something during my training. Since I'll have one skill test less and due to some other factors I'll be paying almost the same price, just a bit more.

[mad_jock]

So your going to go from having a SEP-IR head on.

To then drop that to do visual work on the CPL course

Then do your MEP skills

Then without any training at all you going to do a CPL test which involves flying the twin on instruments, doing unusal attitudes, steep turns and stalling to a commercial standard.

Then after that to put yourt IR head back on and in 15 hours get back up to speed flying all the procedures. Then re-learn them all again but this time single engine.

Dream on.

You will get plenty of twin hours alright with the additional remedial training required.

I would go and have a chat with the poor sod your expecting to sign your 170A I wouldn't be suprised if they laugh at you.

[madlandrover]

It does sound like you're making it a bit harder than it needs to be. A ME/CPL course is an approved 28 hour course including at least 8 hours MEP flying as opposed to the 25 hour SE/CPL course with at least 5 hours complex single engine. As MJ says there's little or no benefit doing the bulk of a SE-IR before the CPL, other than being a little slicker on tracking and the limited panel work for the CPL - any competent school would make sure you are up to standard anyway!

It is of course entirely up to you how you do your training and you may well have a good reason, financially or otherwise, to do it this way round. But the established training routes are there for a reason, because they work...

[MyIDisthis]

What I was trying to explain was that I'm thinking of doing the CPL and MEP course + skill tests, then the IR-ME. The only unusual thing in my case is that I would be doing part of the IR hours before the CPL. Yes for personal reasons.

I really can't see how that would be any worse than doing IR-SE --> CPL/MEP --> IR-ME, this scenario would only have a 5h add on which I don't think will be enough to pass the ME-IR skill test. Do you?

In my case I'll have the full IR-ME course instead, which includes 15hrs of multi, which I think sounds more realistic than 5.

I don't know if we just misunderstood eachother Mad Jock, or if you still think this is something to laugh at.

Anyways I appreciate all the response.

[mad_jock]

Because you can't do them as a seperate course as madland states you have to do 28hour CPL/MEP course followed by one test. Which to be honest there are not many schools will do because they have learned from experence it doesn't really work.

The IR until you do it is very hard to explain the complete frustration and stress that occurs.

I would advise you go and do MEP class while doing 55hour MEP/IR then do the 15 hour CPL MEP or SEP as you see fit

[MyIDisthis]

Yeah that's also an option. But if I'm not wrong the MEP CR can't be combined with the IR-ME skill test?

Does the MEP CR has to be finished before starting the whole IR-ME course, or can you do it somewhat halfway, after you've flown 30-40 single hours but before starting the 15hrs of multi?

[mad_jock]

you just need the pass cert in your hand when you go for the IR test for the MEP.

[MyIDisthis]

Perfect. Thanks I appreciate the help.

[FlyingStone]

I have a similar question about doing CPL/ME/IR.

Would it be smart to do CPL course and MEP rating combined (doing 20 hours in SE non-complex aircraft and then the rest in MEP)?

My plan is (the cheapest option I've come across) is to start CPL/ME course as stated at cca. 160 (total) hours, but not taking the final exam. After completing the course, I would do ME/IR (40 hrs sim + 15 hrs aircraft) after that and after I'd reach 200 hours total time, I could do CPL/ME exam, which would give me MEP rating. And with valid MEP rating I could then take the ME/IR exam. Or am I thinking wrong? Is ME/IR course so much more difficult than taking SE/IR first and then 5 hours + another exam for ME/IR?

The other options are:
- to do CPL/SE, MEP and ME/IR
- to do CPL/SE, SE/IR, MEP and ME/IR

But it should be said, the latter options are much more expensive (~ 3000-5000 €)...