Career advice needed please

[Chewy137]

Hi there.

I am 33, coming to the end of a 12 yr career in the RAF and leaving at the Rank of Corporal and looking to go into the civilian aircraft industry. During my career I have completed my Aircraft Engineering Apprenticeship and a HNC in Mechanical Engineering. I've worked both 1st and 2nd line, 5 yrs on Tornado F3 Sqn, 4 yrs in Typhoon Eng Bay and the remainder on Chinook Sqns.

Upon leaving, my plan was to go to Glamorgan University and study Aircraft Maintenance Engineering, hopefully coming out with a degree and B1 licence. I would then hope to go on to a job in either in heavy maintenance or on 1st line. I have a number of questions:

1) Taking into account my previous experience, as well as my current and possible future qualifications, do you think this is a worthwhile road for me to go down?
2) Do you think it is likely I would be able to get a reasonable starting postion upon graduating?
3) I am aware that I would still require type ratings, could you recommmend employers that would give me the opportunity to gain then? If not, could you recommend other routes into the civilian aircraft business?

I would really appreciate any advice you guys have got to give. Thanks in advance.

[MATMAX]

Hi Chewy,
I am not going to answer to your questions , sorry but basically sometimes i do not understand why guys like yourself with a military knowledge and experience do not go on , on the "military" way ?
There are some French agencies who are looking for guys like you ...

[Chewy137]

Thanks for your reply Matmax. I haven't really thought about France because my French is not great. Would that be a problem? Would you mind giving me the names of a few french agencies? Thanks

[MATMAX]

Chewy,
Have a look here : Emploi aéronautique et actualités ::: AEROCONTACT ::: (http://www.aerocontact.com/)
If you need some help with the froggy language , do not hesitate ...PM

[MATMAX]

you should try : satif , expectra.
send them your cv.
last stuff , some of them can be interested in fluent english speaking guys ... and french of course.
Salut.

[WOTME?]

I hate to be negative but have you considered an alternative career path?
This is not the best time to be looking to get into civilian aviation....people with experience/licences are being laid off everywhere.Maybe helicopters would be different,but the way modern airliners are heading....more & more BITE,less maintenance personnel.

[Alber Ratman]

Mitchaa

For B1.1 there are 13 Modules (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,15,17) plus 4 essays (2 for Module 7, 9 and 10). The rest is true on the experience however the CAA does it on a case by case basis.


My advice would be to STAY IN at the moment and get the modules by distance learning. Others have done it cheaply by use of notes such as LBP and there are numerous copies of other up to date notes from other providers if you ask about. You can also try your knowledge on Club 66. Exams do not have to be done at LGW or Shuttleworth, other PART 147 providers do take external canidates. The industry is in a mess at the mo, with lots of MROs cutting numbers and it is nearly impossible to get into places for people like yourself, when you are at a stage that you are at. BTW I'm ex air force of 25 years experience (all lines of RAF maintenance) and have all the modules.. I'm still low on the drag curve upwards to becoming an LAE (but getting there) after 18 months 145 time. An LAE has a lot more responsiblity and required knowledge than what a junior supervisor in the RAF tends to have or requires IMHO.

[Chewy137]

Thank you everyone for your input. Unfortunately your answers were along the lines I'd started to suspect.

[piggybank]

Wotme has got it about right I reckon. Work is thin at the moment even for experienced and qualified maintenance people. You have a good training and skills that cover other well paying trades, industrial turbines, complex hydraulics. They all pay more than aviation even after tax. Boring maybe, but if you want travel and good pay that will actually pay all your bills, I say look at the oil industry and power generation work going about. You are still young, and after the mentality change thats needed after being in the military (I am ex military some 38 years back) you be can do it all. I don't know if VT is still hiring in Oman, but that and Airwork used to be a good first step after the military to ease you into civilian life.

[Fargoo]

You have a good training and skills that cover other well paying trades, industrial turbines, complex hydraulics. They all pay more than aviation even after tax. Boring maybe, but if you want travel and good pay that will actually pay all your bills, I say look at the oil industry and power generation work going about.

If you came looking for career advice, you can't do better than that :ok:
Very sound advice.

[Alber Ratman]

If you can get in to an MRO (and I know people who have, I jumped in as a connie and a mate at my present MRO came in as a permie, straight from the RAF) jump at it. Stick the military contracts and the airwork sh*te up their as*es, if you can avoid them. You can transfer your skills to other fields and you would be richer for it. I continue with the LAE route because I did all the modules at home and would like to see it until the end..

[Alber Ratman]

and I still love aviation.. ish:ugh:

[Rigga]

I'd like to start by saying that its nice to see someone asking what to do - but, unfortunately, you've left it a bit late to start forming your exit plan.

If you haven't already started the LAE route - and you want to stay in the aviation industries when you leave - then stay in for a few years and get started while someone else will pay for it. This will also help you to stay 'paid' while this debit era passes and you can buy something like the Flight Infernal and watch for when the jobs start being adcvertised again.

Good Luck - what ever you decide
Rigga

[WOTME?]

Agree with Alber about the military contracts,Airwork & the like get away with paying low wages because they employ a lot of ex 22 year pensioned military guys.I know this as I did some time in Oman for Airwork(after 10 years RAF).I don't regret it as I had a good time but it meant I didn't get a licence until I was 43....believe me the older you get the harder it gets!

[Bodjit]

If you want my advice change direction or stay in, I'm puttin the final part of my exit plan into operation in the next month or two and its out of aviation for me..... shame as well cos I love it.

Since 16 and now 43 but it is too unstable, insecure, pay is slowly going down and down, mega difficult to get a job or contract, you're now everyones slave and blaming post and thats everyone from the ops room to the Qual manager to the CAA, regulation is just getting out of hand, training costs massive, keeping current costs increasing, both increasing to become unaffordable both for companies and individuals (connies), near impossibility to gain further types and progress, market now flooded with new B1/B2 so called new engineers that can box slam and bite test but give them a defect or a wiring snag and its the end of the world... all to name but a few.......

Sorry fellas, but this once fine industry of ours is finished...... if you don't agree with me I hope your company never shuts, rationalises, or outsources, downsizes or you just lose your job..... because once the blinkers come off you too will see whats left of our great industry for what it is.....finished!

Bodjit

[spannersatcx]

The same applies for most other idustries as well, so it could be out of the frying pan into the fire or the grass may not be greener on the otherside.

Wish you every success on your new path whatever it may be.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just a thought:

If you've had enough of disrupted family life and getting mortared on your days off, I can see your point.

There are civilian organisations in the UK who may be glad of your sort of experience set and qualifications - Qinetiq's staff mostly work on military aircraft and equipment at Boscombe Down, and companies such as Westlands and BAeS could well be interested in your experience and military qualifications on the aircraft manufacturing or flight test side, where civil licences aren't required - but you have potential to go in at a lowish level, but work your way up the company career ladder there - whilst sleeping in your own bed most nights and not getting shot at!

G

[Bodjit]

Spanners, thanks I too hope it comes off..... and I agree with your comments..

The same applies for most other idustries as well, so it could be out of the frying pan into the fire or the grass may not be greener on the otherside.

But when I look forward in this once great and well respected industry I'm afraid I dont see much potential, if you do you could discuss it with the 300 ish people in the SRT diamond hangar STN or the 60 odd people at Inflite STN who have just lost/losing their jobs, I'm sure they'll all find aviation employment elsewhere .....not.

I know a number of very good 73/Abus engs that are out of work and more worryingly nothing on the horizon, and same with mechs and sheeties. Everyone seems to think the saviour will be the new Embraer 170/190 family, if you cost up training and put a time plan on getting it on your ticket if you can get any OJT, (Flybe will provide you with some for £150 or £450 / day cant remember the exact fig.. after you've paid for the course with them circa £4,500......) yep, you do the maths and you'll find the regulatory hoops makes it almost impossible, especially if you are a conny. Once you've done some OJT, gettin someone to sign your sheets is difficult enough, and by the way thats going to change so only Form 4 Post Holders can do that .. Qual managers etc not your mate on the other shift with a stamp.

Chewy, look at all the posts on this site and airmech from people like yourself looking to get out or just finishing training and you will see the picture forming, look elsewhere as well and dont have aviation as your sole industry, make a plan, don't waste any time in preparing and use ALL the training money and time available to you.... Its never to early to start preps for leaving but dont think you'll walk into a aviation job outside because you'll be disappointed and frustrated. Or better still get promoted and stay in....

Sorry its doom and gloom peeps but just a realistic view...

[Cochefantastico]

Whatever anyone has said, this is what I would do......
Don't bother with degree, spend more productive time doing your EASA Licence modules - B1 for Eng/Airframe and/or B2 Avionics. You can start plodding through them before you leave. And no, they aren't at all easy! If you are still in try and get some 'work experience' at weekends, you'll get connie rates and you'll be getting your civi work experience started. Try the weekend warriers at KLM UK in Norwich. Once you've left you'll then be in a good position to be employed as a mechanic. Bearing in mind you'll be on as much money as a CPL and you won't get shot at!! Once you're licenced (with a years worksheets) the taxman will begin to love you!
You are doing the right thing!

[Alber Ratman]

I wish I was on Cpls wages at my MRO.. I have to put in serious OT to get anywhere near it..

[glad rag]

During my career I have completed my Aircraft Engineering Apprenticeship and a HNC in Mechanical Engineering

What were your dates?

[Cochefantastico]

Well, that's the route I went and I never took a pay cut!