Bigger single or small twin?

[AirBumps]

Hey guys,

I've done a search but most of the questions regarding twins where in relation to training for CPL or first job, thats not what I'm after. Im a PPL holder wanting to find a good a/c that I can use to take 4 or 5 people touring in on a semi regular basis.

I've got my retract/CSU and have a reasonable amount of time in 182s, but want something a little bigger that I can hire casually for the odd weekend. Needs to be out of Melbourne, but doesn't matter if its MB or EN....

I don't presently have a twin endorsment but have no issues doing one to suit this requirment. So the question is, for the purpose of touring what sort of twin would be good to train (and thus be endorsed) on, or, can anybody recommend a larger single that will take pilot plus 4? Seminole seems less useful than the 182 for what I want. Was thinking of a Saratoga but not sure who owns one that is available for casual hire?

Anybody got any insight or point me the right direciton of an operator?
AB

[The Green Goblin]

Beech Bonanza or Baron (if you want the safety of a second donk) will have you in an ideal touring aircraft

[tarmac12]

A Seneca is also an option. There is one at MB for hire.

[Ted D Bear]

A Seneca is also an option


Will also be a cheaper than a Baron (tho' doesn't fly - or land - as nicely, IMHO) - just watch the ZFW and CofG, if you're planning to take 5 people (especially in the Seneca II). Don't go near a Seneca I!

You might have trouble finding someone who'll let you do an initial multi on a Seneca II (or higher), because they're turbo-charged and lots of assymetrics are not seen as good for 'em.

Saratoga and A36 Bonza are both good single 6-seaters - again I like the way the Beech handles compared to the Piper.

Ted

[Old Akro]

You'll have trouble hiring either a 6 seat single or twin without experience. But a single will be a fair bit easier. I think you'l find you'll need 50 hours or more in things like Seminole's & Travelair's before anyone's insurance will allow you to fly a Seneca, Baron or 310 (if you can find one).

My experience has been that to do regular IFR trips, I needed to take a syndicate share in an aircraft to feel confident enough about its maintenance & functioning of its avioincs (including autopilot) and for my own currency confidence. Check your PM.

If you are going to hire, I'd find someone with the aeroplane you want and work on developing a trusted relationship with them.

When schedules started to demand more night work, I moved to a twin. The costs are at least as bad as everyone says. But I'll never go back to a single for trips. I just work harder to make more money.

[lilflyboy262]

Airvans are always nice. Holds 1 + 7, but if you keep it to 6 you have no issues with bags and fuel.
They have a excellent safety record, they dont stall... the nose just drops then comes up again... The cabin and cockpit is spacious compared to the likes of a 206, and it is also quiet enough to talk to the people around you without going deaf.
Only uses 60L a hour so cheap in that regard.

Downsides, slow as heck. Cruises 115-120. A cow to start when hot.

[TOPendFLYER]

good luck finding a Airvan for private hire :ok:

[Dashtrash]

You really need to weigh up what your needs are. How many will you be travelling with, how far, over what terrain/water etc. A 6 seat single or multi with 6 up + bags and supplies for a long trip won't carry much fuel. Also, finding a aircraft on paper is different to finding one you'd like to actually fly and also finding an owner to actually let you take it for long pereods.

Unless you're planning IFR or unfriendly terrain or overwater, I'd go for setting yourself up with access to a couple of different singles rather than type endorsements for one multi. A C310 is a great plane but might be overkill for some trips. Better to have access to a saratoga or bonanza for 6 seats and fast 4 seat for smaller trips. I like the later series TB20s but thats me. Don't know much about the airvan but sounds pretty capable.

Don't get sucked into the hype on multi engine safety. A light twin has no requirement to climb on one engine under AMBIENT conditions. Look at the figures for any well loaded twin with a pht of 2000ft and 30 degrees. hey give you more options but the options aren't always what you'd like.

my 2 cents worth

[maverick22]

You could head just that little bit further East and get hold of a Bonanza at Lilydale. They have a few available for hire. Would be ideal for what you need.

[AirBumps]

Thanks for the replies (and PMs) guys, much appreciated.

The A36s at YLIL would be ideal, but from what I'm told they require you to have in instrument rating before they will rent one to you. This is something I don't have at present.

Who at MB or EN operates Travel Airs for initial endorsments? I beleive Moorabbin Avation Services do? The BE95 seems much more useful than the Seminole.

Thanks again,

AB

[Arnold E]

Airvan for hire and fly in South Oz

[AirBumps]

Anybody know of any syndicates operating out of Essendon?

[Clearedtoreenter]

210... does everything - most of the advantages of a twin (apart from two engines - not that that's much of an advantage on most of the crappy twins around....)

[Biggles78]

The A36s at YLIL would be ideal, but from what I'm told they require you to have in instrument rating before they will rent one to you

I would call and ask them about that. I believe the aircraft is IFR capable but that doesn't mean you need the IF Rating to fly it. I used to fly one from there, FCT, when I had a PPL.

Haven't flown there for 20 years but they had a real good friendly atmosphere back then and the bonus was get airborne and you were in the training area. No 10 to 20 mins S&L each way wasted getting there. (Please no flames for that statement. I learnt at Christchurch NZ and there was only so much S&L you could do before you got proficient at it) David Pitt(s) was the CFI then. Good instructor and a real nice guy.

[maverick22]

I think they pull the old "you need an instrument rating to hire a bonanza" line so that they know the pilot they are hiring it to is a bit more switched on and can get themselves out of trouble because the bonanza is such a high performance aeroplane:hmm:

Pittsy left lilydale a loooong time ago. But you're right though, he's a top bloke:ok: