Show Us Ya Wac

[Green_pilot_79]

Just a thread to see the different wacs out there with radio boundays/CTA marks etc etc. Doing up my second WAC now with all the info on so after any ideas colour scemes that work well :)

[bentleg]

I never do it.

A Sydney VNC and a Newcastle VNC covers most areas that I fly. As you appear to be based at Jandakot, try the Perth VNC, it covers the area N to Leeman, E to Kellerberrin and S to Busselton.

If I had to do it on a WAC, I'd use the same colours as on the VNC.

[The Green Goblin]

When you draw your pencils lines (remember those??? :}) Just write the frequency changes at intervals enroute.

Rarely in a bug smasher do you go through more than three!

[compressor stall]

Pretty much any colour / pencil or pen works well on my wacs.... :} Mind you 1:60s are a pain in the ar$e.

http://www.remoteadventures.com/webpics/emptymap.jpg

[Jabawocky]

I am surprised you have that much detail Stallie!

And where is all your Class E :}

[Clare Prop]

Some schools at Jandakot wont allow thier students to use the VNC!. Safer to put your own interpretation on a WAC apparently. :ugh::confused:

[compressor stall]

Class what?

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Jaba.....it's all class E EFFFING COLD....:}

[help me jebus]

1111111111

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re That Chart-

Wot? No 'E'phemeral rocks??

Wouldn't be many other differences - would there?

Like the charts of 'old' in 'Up North'.....ephemeral lakes...ephemeral rivers....:ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I remember the Perth VNC had a huge number of errors when I was learning to navigate not too long ago (roads with towns and lakes on the wrong side). I also found that the VNC was too awkward a scale and too busy for any real use. I suppose that if you're not going to leave the VNC that it's OK but if you're going to cross over to a WAC then the sooner you get onto that chart the better.

Probably nothing wrong with putting lines on your WACs but definately do it in pencil as the boundaries change often enough. Also, don't make the lines so thick that you can't see or read what is under them, the cartographers (are map makers still called that?) have the luxury of moving the words and numbers around to accommodate the terrain and man-made lines.

Or a better and simpler question, why don't they just produce VNC'S for the whole continent?

Yikes, no way. The scale would make it ridiculous to cover the whole of Aus. Talk about over-navigating. Now putting airspace on WACs would be a capital idea, I think that in the US they're called sectionals. I only had to buy one chart when I was there and set to the same scale it covered almost four WACs using front and back and had airspace. No problems worrying about using out-of-date WACs with out-of-date heights for calculating LSALT (these also had grid LSALT). Would it really be so expensive to transition to these?

FRQ CB

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From memory....It was mooted many years ago to do just that.

Then the 'powers that be' decided that there would be too many 'airspace' amendments over relatively short periods of time, to keep printing new/amended WACs with Airspace, whereas the 'terrain' did not change much.......
However, 'twas thought by many to be 'worthwhile'....

Now, I still draw 'circles' on my WACs with freqs - if I can find them - and with LL's / CTA etc.

There was a time when 'someone' who is 'well known' to these forums, made the decision to 'drop' freqs from charts.....How 'handy' was THAT??

(Can't tell the 'great unwashed' the freqs closest to them - like they will only congest them...):}:}

[Deaf]

I think that in the US they're called sectionals. I only had to buy one chart when I was there and set to the same scale it covered almost four WACs using front and back and had airspace. No problems worrying about using out-of-date WACs with out-of-date heights for calculating LSALT (these also had grid LSALT). Would it really be so expensive to transition to these?

What you had is an ONC (Operational Navigation Chart). Used to be available for Qz and still is for RAAF but now not for us, we can't be trusted.

[The Green Goblin]

Or a better and simpler question, why don't they just produce VNC'S for the whole continent?

From memory a VTC/VNC is a Mercators projection isn't it? This means that straight lines are rhumb lines and as aviators we fly great circles.

In a WAC, (Lamberts) straight lines are great circles which is how we navigate and the bearing change from A-B coincides with the change on the map.

A VNC would be sufficient for flying around on 30-40 miles navex type operations during your training but would be insufficient for the charter type flying you conduct flying 100-350 mile type sectors. You would have way to many maps also for a start!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Since VNC became available, I haven't had the need to draw on a WAC. I like what FTDK has done superimposing the airways over the WAC. The idea, working out terrain if things go quiet whilst IMC?

[Captain Nomad]

I think you will find ONC's have airports on them but not airspace. At least that was the case with the ones I used.

[Clare Prop]

There are errors on the WAC re lakes on the wrong sides of roads etc. Some of the reasons schools give for not using it are hilarious (as are some of the other myths and legends). At least most others allow the student to actually work things out for themselves.

The rest of the world uses the 1:500 000 scale.

Whether it is mercator or lambert depends largely on whether the map is aligned North-South or East-West. It is the gnomic projection which has great circles as straight lines, not the Lambert.

Even so, do people really calculate great circle tracks for a 350 mile visual nav?!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

There are errors on the WAC re lakes on the wrong sides of roads etc.

There are lakes that are not shown at all on WACs!

eg Lake Fork-tailed Doctor Killer, which I discovered and named during my historic east-west crossing of the Tanami Desert in the FTDK in 2007.

Dr :8

http://www.fototime.com/796CA7D4E1E8A65/standard.jpg

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Since VNC became available, I haven't had the need to draw on a WAC.

Don't do much flying away from the coast, eh?

The only charts that give full coverage across Australia are WACs and ERCs.
The sooner students start using these in conjunction with each other, the easier they will find their general flying and following on, their NVFR/IF.

Yes, the VNC will make it easier near the class C areas, but a PPL (or CPL) doesn't have a "VTC/VNC chart coverage only" endorsement so why not teach the correct methods from the start?

There are errors on the WAC re lakes on the wrong sides of roads etc.
The number of students (including AFR's) I find who have no idea how to amend a WAC chart is astounding! For those who would like to know, the current sup is H43/09.
For those who find errors on WACs, why don't you contact airservices and notify them of the errors so they can be included on these amendments?

[glekichi]

While we are at it, why the :mad: aren't airspace, danger, restricted areas, or grid MSA/LSALTs shown on WACs in Australia?
Its all computer driven these days and all it would take are a couple of extra clicks.
:ugh:

[Lodown]

My information might be well out of date, but I believe WACs are still produced from film. It's like an acrylic sheet negative, the same size as a WAC and has been in its original form for donkey's years. Every change is made by hand directly onto the film, which is then projected onto a plate and printed. Many years ago, the VNC's were introduced using digital data stored in the supplier's database. The intention was to expand VNC, but the funding dried up and I suppose market justification for expansion was impossible. Initially the supplier's data for the VNC's were no where near as good as the information stored in hard copy on the WAC film. It has become better over time as more discrepancies have been discovered and included/amended. As most would be aware, the big advantage of digital data (VTCs and VNCs) was that it allowed for relatively simple inclusion of other data stored in digital format: airspace, frequencies, etc. with subsequent manipulation for positioning. This was the stuff that couldn't go on WACs because all the hand amendments would wipe out much of the underlying topograhical information in hard copy on the original film.

Another issue with the WAC is that the scale is so small that to print all the information that pilots would like on one chart would mean compromises on the integrity of the topographical information shown. For example, a road or river shown on a scale of 1:500,000 might have to be drawn 1/4 mile wide to be readable on the chart. No biggie in most situations. The same road or river on a scale of 1:1,000,000 might have to be 1/2 mile wide. Combined with an airspace boundary that might have to be shown another 1/2 mile wide and text that might need to occupy 2 miles; the chart gets crowded very quickly and some topographical features have to be sacrificed.

The WAC film is living on borrowed time. It has had information amended and amended so many times, the film has to be handled with care. Why hasn't this information been digitised yet???? Like other things, it relates to money: payback, market, budgets, funding. It's not cheap. Finding the initial outlay is difficult when government departments are supposed to run at a profit. There wouldn't be much change left over from a couple of million dollars. And then how many sales would have to be made before the investment was recouped?

Time is another factor. Possibly the better part of 2 months to get the information digitised for all WACs and then another two or three years going over the data with a fine-toothed comb to make sure nothing is missed prior to release. Meanwhile still amending and producing WACs in the traditional way. While taking the information from the WACs, digitising it and checking it, someone else has to be entering amended information at the same time both on the original film and on the digital data. It wouldn't be a small operation. It would be doubling, or in some cases, tripling the required staff for a period of several years.

Geographical features change. Want something included? Submit notification. It takes time to make it onto a printed WAC, but if it's geographically important, it eventually gets on.

[Howard Hughes]

There are lakes that are not shown at all on WACs!

eg Lake Fork-tailed Doctor Killer, which I discovered and named during my historic east-west crossing of the Tanami Desert in the FTDK in 2007.

Dr

Geeez Forkie, looks like the prop needs a balance mate...:}

[OZBUSDRIVER]

MIHC..nah, just all the interesting stuff is already drawn on the VNC.

Actually, thats part of your training, MIHC. Using the full suite from planning chart right through is all part of the dance.