Permanent basings policy and current base bid

[Saturn]

It was my understanding that after SLS 08/09 we were to negotiate a new PBP??? The latest one to come out is a violation as it has not been agreed to. Not only this but the restrictions are unacceptable. It says you must have the right to live and work. This is supposed to apply to EVERYONE, it does not! People are being granfathered as a side deal. Seniority yet again compromised and I can see Captain positions soon being out of seniority. The company keeps saying this is to follow law which is a lie. I can maybe even see DEC's again. We already gave it up once! Now you may not be able to go where you want to go and will watch junior memebers or new hires take these positions. What do you tell all the SO's that were held off because of DEFO's, some if not all who will be grandfathered. If they cannot fill the vacancies, more DEFO's and then for Capt positions, DEC's.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, WHEN IS THIS NONSENSE GOING TO STOP???

I also disagree with deal for loss of license. To just sell our members out by giving the company what conditions to impose on our members is not just.
If you get cancer and have been with the company for ten years plus, you come back with seniority but on new conditions of which you have no choice. THIS IS JUST WRONG!:=

[GANKER]

What are you going to do about it? nothing and the union has already told the company that they wont ask people to risk their jobs, which basically tells them that it is open season on pilots! So just enjoy it like we are in Australia!

[Lemon Drop]

http://www.robertnavarre.com/images/relax.jpg

[Saturn]

I found this offensive and a shot across the bow. They (CX management) want to keep violating our contracts and get away with it. This time they asked the AOA to help them and this time it appears the shouting did not fall on deaf ears.

The AOA was/is about to have a riot on their hands. Seems more and more people are getting pissed everyday. Personally, I think it may be time to either join the CPU or form a union/assocation that actually respresents ALL of it's members. J.F.'s Friday updates have become so ridiculous. Now he is saying "join the AOA as we will not help non-members". When have you helped members??? Everyday more and more violations, Roster Stability, Basings, terminations...

Sorry, had to vent but I do not see things every changing.

[&&&]

So why have you not posted this on the HKAOA forum? A union is as good as its members efforts.

[boxjockey]

Agree with last post. Also, have you considered running for GC and effecting some needed changes?

box

[Flap10]

Also, have you considered running for GC and effecting some needed changes?What a moronic statement that I keep seeing over and over again. So in effect the AoA led by the president and the GC can do absolutely no wrong, no matter what, since they can always declare that it was a volunteer position. We have had several committee changes in the past decade, and exactly what has been achieved? You guys have to wake up and realize that the AoA in its current structure is a useless organization.

[GANKER]

You said it Saturn and right on the money! He shouldn't have to run for GC to have his contract protected but that has what it has come to! The AOA has lost all credibility and as far as I can tell will never do anything productive for the pilot body other than blow hot air! Ever since I have been a member(which is a while) they have promised the world only to deliver at the last minute" NOTHING". I am still waiting on the pay rise they promised if we signed the rostering deal! or was it another deal I forget but its all the same old story and you all know it. The union reminds me of one of those leather back dogs in Thailand that walks around scared with its tail tucked up under its AR$#. Saturn dont expect or wait for anything cause it ain't coming , sooner you come to terms with that the happier you will be.

[Hellenic aviator]

Saturn, you said it perfect - Sorry, had to vent but I do not see things every changing.

What angers me is how the the past negotiations have been mainly to aid the Based Crewsrather than ALL CREWS

Free reserve for A days.:ugh::ugh:

I won't even start about S.T golfing with N.R. and 'eradicating' 5-4-3 :mad::mad:

Ganker wrote: The AOA has lost all credibility and as far as I can tell will never do anything productive for the pilot body other than blow hot air! Ever since I have been a member(which is a while) they have promised the world only to deliver at the last minute" NOTHING". I am still waiting on the pay rise they promised if we signed the rostering deal!

Couldn't agree with you more.

So, how about ousting J.F.

[jonathon68]

J.F is semi-retiring briefly, before taking up full time retirement. In the meanwhile his full time professional replacement (D.D, no stranger to long term members) is moving into position.

The General Secretary is an employee of our Association, and subject to the command of the President and the G.C. The AOA is not his personal association. His position (and that of KP etc in the office) is similar to that of a professional paid government civil service officer. They simply do what they are told by us, via the President and G.C.

The weakness in the system is that the President and/or G.C do not always do what we want for our own individual interests.

That is why you (Yes.. you, the person reading this posting), should stand for the Committee. If you care about the issues affecting you, and can stand up for those issues, then you should stand for the new Committee.

If you can convince us that your issues are ones which we can sympathize with, then we will vote for you.

Hellenic, you have some good concerns etc. Are you standing up for our rights, or hiding behind a forum?

[Hellenic aviator]

Excellent question Jono68.

I am more than happy to sit down with you over a cuppa and have a detailed discussion and answer all your questions as well as express my views, whether it's here at our home base or on a layover - your choice. You know who I am.

[Oval3Holer]

The weakness in the system is that the President and/or G.C do not always do what we want for our own individual interests.

jonathon68, why do you think this is a weakness in the system? The President and/or G.C. should not do what we want for our OWN INDIVIDUAL interests, but should do what we want for the INTERESTS OF THE PILOT GROUP AS A WHOLE.

No wonder the AOA is so dysfunctional if people with your ideas are running it.

[boxjockey]

I believe jonathon68 meant to say "collective" interests, not "individual". Unfortunately, the previous GCs have a track record of not doing what the majority will it to do. Hopefully the current GC are listening to the membership, and I do believe that they are.

box

[Hellenic aviator]

EXACTLY Box!!!

Union dues are paid - The GC and President work for the Membership not vice versa. That means if the majority vote no - it doesn't mean to have another re-vote.

[fly123456]

A majority vote, all we will ever need?
No thank you!

If we had to vote on a great idea like 60% of the pilots get a pay rise, but in order to achieve this, the other 40% will have to finance it.
Would it not achieve a majority vote, although not being fair?

We are just too focused on ourselves rather than on the whole pilot group.

We elect the GC because we believe they are honest, sensible. (although I agree it is also a majority vote, where we might vote for people favorising a certain group - same problem then)
We should let them do their job.
And if we disagree with them, we should present ourselves in the next elections!

[Adam GoodJob]

The "latest" PBPA is dated 2006 and has expired; it can be terminated with 3 months' notice - so much for being a (new) abomination, Saturn.

Also, how did waiving 5-4-3 help the Based guys? Most of them hate the resulting 3-days off between patterns (2 because few live at their Base Port) and are forced onto the murderous W patterns as a result. Based productivity went UP 25% after the loss of 5-4-3, for no extra pay of course. It was voted in by the commuters in HKG.

Requiring the right to love & work at a Base is not just a company line, either; it's the law. All upgrades must be through HKG, to prevent commands out of seniority (which ends up with DECs), so yet another false rant. The grand-fathering is a good thing for those concerned, but then that's clearly not you, so why would you care about them?

The maximum time for returning to the seniority list after health problems was nothing like 10+ years, either, but don't let the truth stand in the way of a good rant, eh?

[Saturn]

Interesting. What I am on about is the fact the regardless of the PBPA, it is being violated by the company as it does not apply to everyone. Why do we still have Candians in the US and Americans in Canada? I have no problem with the fact except that NOW the rules apply. All those Yanks hired as DEFOs in Canada are exempt. It's the law you say BULL****! Nothing personal but BULL****. The company continues to do whatever it wants whenever it wants. This is a yet another lawsuit waiting to happen.

I have been saying for sometime now that it will only get worse. More DEC's are coming as if you aint allowed to be on a base they will hire someone who is. We did nothing about the first DEC's and will do nothing again. 777 DEC's and more DEFO's are coming trust me. Funny how there has been so many problems with DEC's and those low experienced DEFO's ( nothing against them, we don't train at CX we intimidate and abuse and then check ). 7+ were just terminated.

The managment at this company are completely and utterly incompetent. Instead of REALLY fixing the problems they just keep making them bigger as they never recognize or acknowledge their mistakes. Then they pat themselves on the back and reward themselves handsomely. I really am surprised this company is successful at all. The employees are suing en masse and are protesting en masse. The a-holes on the 3rd and 9th floor simply do not care. Their egos are just too big. What a bunch of sycophants.

Hows that for a rant???

[rick.shaw]

Some would say 'pretty accurate'.