Muscat ATC

[gardenshed]

Just want to say many thanks and well done to the boys and girls in Muscat ATC this morning in helping us all get around Cyclone Phet.
Must have been a very busy time for you all.
The phone lines between you and Karachi must have been red hot.:D:D

[latetonite]

Yes, they sure did manage well. Also Teheran was very accommodating. But then, it was not so bad flying in the northern part of the storm as I feared so far.
Anybody got rough rides afterwards?

[josh737]

MCT and KC ctrl did really well :D....ride into DXB for BOM was ok in the morning.... but pretty bad in the north on the way back in the noon :eek::eek:

[Farrell]

It's still raining cats and dogs here.

I will pass on your compliments to the various watches.
It's always appreciated.

Farrell

[ManaAdaSystem]

Helping you around Phet?

Why did you not file around it in the first place? Phet is not classified information.

[Fart Master]

Mana, you post sh*t on other threads, then you slag goodwill messages on this thread. You may be winding people up but it still doesn't stop you from being a D*ckhead:mad:

[ManaAdaSystem]

And hello to you too!

How about an answer to my question? Do you at all check weather reports before you fly?

I've got nothing against Muscat ATC, but you are the guys who increase their work load, and they are busy enough on a normal day (or night).

[ATCO1962]

Thanks for the kind words, guys. It wasn't easy but we seemed to manage it all pretty well with the help of most of you. We lost our main radar to the east, as well as the main transceiver servicing inbounds from Bombay, hence the delays in answering sometimes. We still got hammered two nights ago but last night was pretty sweet as EK routed most of their aircraft through Iranian airspace. THANK YOU. It made for a much less chaotic evening, at least for the controllers in Muscat.

[Fox3snapshot]

Well done Muscat without question, a furball to say the least!

But to be fair, nobody has constructively addressed Mana's query, and it was a good one. Why were there numpties flight planning right into the guts of it and making hard work of it for everybody concerned! And there was a lot of them!

Two companies rang our center in UAE that I know of that made legitimate queries on how they can plan in the Muscat FIR to avoid the grief, one was a major which is refreshing! The only advice I had at the time...go south!

I don't think Mana was poo pooing Muscat, he was just questioning the professionalism of operators sending the starship troopers into the guts of a raving cyclone! :ooh:

[gardenshed]

Ok Mana I will answer your question. You are spot on, my company took one look at the Sig Wx chart and said S*d it lets file straight through the middle.(Kn*b).
When we got airborne according to the latest Wx chart we were well clear and would stay that way, but you know what, mother nature is a funny beast and if you got off your playstation you would know this also.
Mr Moderator please take this clown off I started this thread just to say thanks the Muscat Atc team nothing more nothing less, and people like Mana come along and spoil it for the majority of us.:ugh:

[ProteaPete]

Why did you not file around it in the first place? weather reports Mana sounds like you're not even a pilot. I guess some blanket stacker/fax reloader from the office? How many majors around here ask the captain which airway he prefers for his flight? Answer (for you): None.

You're lucky if you get a choice between chicken or beef.

Fox, if the majors flight-planned through "Fett", you'd have to ask the Poindexters in Flight Dispatch why. Or possibly...... the bean-counters! But not the drivers of all people!

As for numpties in the "lesser" carriers blundering through.... we're in the middle east; did you really have to ask that question?? ;)

[ManaAdaSystem]

You guys scare me. When I'm handed a flight plan, it's up to me to accept it or not. If it's routed right through a cyclone, I'll ask for a new one.
New flash! Cyclones move! Cyclones over the Arabian Sea are nothing new. They start out in the southern part, then usually move north. Sometimes it will go north west like Gonu. You don't really need to do much research, just watch CNN.
Fox3 is ATC, and he had the obvious solution. Go South! Or into Iran.

Gardenshed, wipe your tears. I'm not slagging Muscat ATC. They are doing a very good job with the equipment they've got.

I'm in command of my aircraft. The question is: Who commands yours?

May I recommend: Cyclone Page (http://www.imd.gov.in/section/nhac/dynamic/cyclone.htm)

[Jetjock330]

Why is it necessary to descend from 40000ft to 30000ft from Trivandrum VOMM airspace, then Mumbai VABF to position KITAL? All this towards the end 16 hours flight. Indians say restriction comes from Muscat! FL340 and FL400 are not allowed, yet as I read the notam, it was allowed no other traffic above or below of course, as we saw it, but still "MAINTAIN FL300" and increase Mach to make KITAL on a constraint. Guys must have a sense of humor somewhere in Muscat or Mumbai!

Had pity for the Emirates (412/406/424 one of these) flight the other day, put into the hold for 21 minutes at FL270 near Mumbai, whilst enroute to Melbourne from Dubai. Could not believe it!!!!

ATC leaves a lot to be desired from Muscat to Mumbai and back!

[ATCO1962]

Jetjock330,

If only you knew! People say a lot of things out of ignorance when they don't know the tasks and constraints that others work with.

Just to elucidate for you, all those NOTAMed level restrictions were to keep you all separated! If we didn't impose them, you'd have had a number of close calls and would think even less of our services. In cyclonic WX, we have no choice. In order to maintain separation (which is what you want, what you pay for, yeah?) , we have to impose extraordinary restrictions to ensure safety. You wouldn't believe where aircraft pop up, way off track, in these conditions. Couple that with failed radars and failed links to our radios that cover the Mumbai FIR boundary, we have no tools to work with, so rudimentary flow control measures were put in place. Not very good ones, but ones that saved a lot of heartache later.

I am proud of the people I worked with over the last three days. If you'd have sat next to them and watched the sometimes desperate work that they did on your behalf, I bet snide comments wouldn't be seen in these hallowed fora.

Visit a centre near you on a busy day if you don't believe me. Get an appreciation for what we do downstairs.

Oh, and one other thing; when you leave Muscat airspace heading for Mumbai, it's procedural airspace. You can expect to be Mach numbered a significant proportion of times due to the massive rise in aircraft over the last three years (currently averaging 1065 flights per day; someone told me that that figure compares rather well to North Atlantic traffic) If you want similar flight levels, and you all do, you have to live with speed restrictions.

spelling

[Dubaiforever]

ATCO1962:

thank you very much for the great job you do "downstairs".... :D

[Jetjock330]

ATCO1962 (http://www.pprune.org/members/115683-atco1962)

Your point is taken and I am aware there is a lot I don't know and can't see, but it is a difficult pill to swallow to be denied a flight level that the notams allow, yet told "not allowed" at all, and not due to traffic. It as if someone just moves the goal line more than normal and causes us to swallow gas, and extra 3,6 tons in the last 3 hours. Thank goodness we started with 146 tons, however, we landed with a lot less than expected, but above absolute minimum.

The aircraft carries contingency, and who is to say that it is available as it might have been used up already in getting that far after 12 hours of flight until then, so it can't be considered it will be available.

As you do, we too read the millions of pages of notams and plan the expected and unexpected, however, the unexpected goes to extreme when the Trivandrum controllers tell us no other levels allowed, descend now and we are on the most southern westbound route believing we have understood the notams correctly and planned accordingly. FL300, FL340 and FL400 available to westbound traffic to KITAL, but all in all, only F300 allowed, other levels not allowed.

We fly NAT (north Atlantic Track system), many levels and many airways for many miles with less radio clutter than the two hours over the Arabian Sea and your point is taken to some degree.


Hopefully it is all normal now and thank you for the reply.

[gardenshed]

Ok Mana go back to your playstation.
As you must take all your vast weather knowledge from CNN whilst the rest of us mere mortals from the Sig Wx charts, let me say this again as English is a problem for you we WERE PLANNED WELL AWAY from the cyclone. As were most of the flights that came through all the airways to the south of us were closed, this meant a huge strain was placed on Muscat who then had to cope with extensive weather deviations as well.
As its highly unlikely you as Captain of you playstation were anywhere near why don't you just butt out.
PS after 25+ years in the game I'm firmly in command of my flight.

[EGGW]

Good lord, some of you guys get very excited all too easy. Mana had a fair point, wasn't dissing anyone. Keep it civil or you get time off.

Carry on.

EGGW

[black hawk down]

Again there is a diversion of the core of the subject "as usual"
bottom line Muscat ATC were the heros of the day and they steered all to safe shores
we are talking about a F*****g strenght 5 cyclone here,
what Muscat boys and girls did is extra ordinary, not to mention the very limited tools that might help in cases like those.
It is not a level issue here, its making it through the mother of all storms:ugh:

[Farrell]

ATCO1962

What have I told you before about elucidating on people!!
This came up quite a lot at the training centre if I remember correctly.


Farrell
(Your friendly neighbourhood Master Rater!)

[ATCO1962]

jetjock330,

We're getting back to normal but when I left this morning, our main radars to the east were still down, which makes our interface with Mumbai that much more interesting. I would expect some restrictions until that problem is fixed, hopefully in the next few days. We had a lot of infrastructure wiped out again, just like Gonu.

We are well aware of the fuel problems that arise because of low levels given across the Indian Ocean and knowing that a lot of the aircraft are ultra-long haul these days. We do our best to not add stress in the cockpit at the end of such flights but there's only so much we can do. We are drowning in work at the moment and we don't have any effective flow control of any description into and out of Dubai, the main problem, although Abu Dhabi and Qatar and the US military are adding to our volume of traffic. We are in the process of hiring a pile of controllers and they will allow some more sectors to be added around Oct, I'm told. That, in itsef, won't solve the problem. EK has around 150 planes at the moment with at least that amount coming in the next few years. If they hub the way they do now, regardless of our sectorisation, you can look forward to holding in the BUBIN hold for days, not minutes.:ok:

Please bear with us. We can't always explain what's happening. Even when the frequency sounds quiet at night, there's always coordination going on with surrounding units and it can be complicated. If you have complaints that don't involve safety, please pass them by writing to the DGMAN and don't harrass us on the frequency (I had a few of those last night).

And don't plan on getting filed flight levels. There's just too much traffic wanting to go out at the same time and wanting the same levels through the same exit points into Mumbai's airspace. I know that many of you already do but I'd recommend uptaking as much fuel as you can for inbound routes to Dubai.

Enough rambling. Thanks to all of you who helped us by not calling any more times than you really had to and who quietly took some of the rubbish we had to dish out when the storm was at its most intense. We very much appreciate the CRM involved.

Cheers

[ATCO1962]

@Farrell,

You gotta remember, bro, that I have an ab-the-normal accent and am only barely level 4. I'll elucidate all I want on whomever I want, thank you very much:}

[josh737]

my flight form BOM to DXB and back was not routed straight thru the cyclone....we routed via karachi instead of flying over the sea..... 45 mins flying time extra. But there was still some wx.....these things are not small u know....and they also move. Due to that... we needed wx deviations and MCT Ctrl did a great job. Some MCT FIR entry points were also closed......all in all... there could have been a big mess......but everything went of really well..... Thats why...Thank You MCT Ctrl!!!!

[black hawk down]

Master b****r
farrel what have you been drinking latley,level 4!? phet?!
you are just topping up that carbon on your brain cells again
doing so much work like the rest of the people around you
see the light for gods sake:bored:

[black hawk down]

quote
"I will pass on your compliments to the various watches. "

Farell
this is the best joke i have heard for years
why dont you assume the job of being the D.G
you did not see what those people went through those couple of nights:suspect:

[Farrell]

"you did not see what those people went through those couple of nights"

Actually...... I did ;)

[black hawk down]

you were in the centre farrell
if you were, then thank you for the support mate:ok:

[Farrell]

"you were in the centre farrell"

Imagine! It took three years but now I have a pass that says I'm "Kabir Something Something" on it!

Farrell

[black hawk down]

you are a kabir boss,if you came from the T.C direction then you are a kabir ,trust me
it all starts over there?
its good to see the boys in action,twll me how did it feel?
or if you want we can take this talk to Muscat Muscateers:rolleyes:

[boeingcrap]

well done, muscateers!! :ok: