Sand box anyone?

[HKJunkie]

I see that Emirates is planning on hiring about 700 pilots over the next year and a half. So, options for the disgruntled?

[T-Mass]

well they better bring someone onboard, friend of mine is averaging 90+hrs a month with only few days off between patterns. if you can take the dubai lifestyle, well, more like if the wife and kids can take it, all the better. middle-east is no walk in the park.

[Sqwak7700]

I see that Emirates is planning on hiring about 700 pilots over the next year and a half. So, options for the disgruntled?

Hardly. They are having a hard time getting applications. One of the roadshow stops is Baghdad. You heard right, BAGHDAD! Probably trying to get the few Iraqi Airways crews that are out of a job.

From what I hear from sources, Emirates is no longer an option, and the other Sand Pit players are following down the same road.

Oh well, maybe China will be the next decent gig? They haven't really invested in training for new pilots as much as they have in buying airliners. Maybe even Indonesia. At the rate the local pilot population is killing or maiming itself, they will soon need to outsource.:hmm:

[4 driver]

Now that permanent basings require right of abode; anyone that wants to get their family out of the pollution may need to look at other options.

[asianeagle]

Will i get a command before 2018...thats how it stands for me at CX now after being here 9 years.:ok:

[Loiter1]

I guess with similar packages what are the pluses and minuses of jumping ship?

Pluses
-Quicker time to command if you look at emirates etc aircraft orders
-No pollution

Minuses
-An even more basic legal system than Hong Kong. ie less protections for you and your family in general
-No basing option (yet)
-Possible treatment as a second class citizen depending on your ethnicity

Not exhaustive by a long shot, but it seems like it is not such a clear cut choice. I think if any of them start basings it could seriously change the equation.

ps I didn't mention the weather either as some don't mind the humidty in Hong Kong/Heat in Dubai

[quadspeed]

Truthfully, the only ones to seriously be discussing going to Dubai seem to be the SOs. Some of them (CoS08) might even get a command in Emirates before getting their second bar here.

The rest are probably better of here.

[A Scaler]

Why jump ship to EK for a quick command? Who cares about what seat you're in if the package is no good.
CX S/O's (with housing) are on a good thing, a fantastic roster, pretend to care about work 3-4 times a month then take the rest of the month off!
Yes there are issues, but I would say more issues at EK?...
Pollution is something to consider in the F-Harbour, but who said there weren't pollution considerations in DXB?

Hopefully EK drop by HKG for one of their roadshows, it would be interesting to see the turnout and have them answer some hard questions.

[fatbus]

Things to keep in mind,

There is pollution in DXB, some days very bad and very fine which can not be filtered by the lungs

Lots of AC orders but there is also retirements

Time to LHS , good ?, 7-10 years and thats a guess

Yes they are having a hard time recruiting, 700 by Mar 2012, the drop to 2500 modern jet was as a result of other airlines in the region asking for the same

Basing s , I would say not going to happen, so don't plan on it. If it ever did there would be 2300 pilots ahead of you wanting to get out here.

Be careful of the grass is greener thing, don't base a choice from info on Pprune and if you do come don't whine about it after 6 months

Also ULR flts will start to have 1 CA 3 FO,s so that will decrease the overall number of upgrades

[fourgolds]

Leaving CX for EK !

This is the classic tale of the tortoise and the hare.

only the hare might not finish the race at all .

[hongkongfooey]

Good post Fatty :ok: have heard about the fine particle/sand pollution before, so sand pit and fragrant:yuk:harbour are 5hit for the family health.
But at least it's easier to stick your head in the sand if you live in the sand ;)

[ShirleyNot]

....and in the middle east - please consider for 4-5 months a year its too hot to go outside....thats quite something, think about it.

[ProteaPete]

Correct. The air quality is poor most of the year and FOUL for the rest of it. Get used to a depressing, brown sky. Everything you leave outside (garden furniture, etc) ends up filthy and covered in sand.

The heat and humidity are outrageous for about 5 months of the year. The weather is horrible. The beach is no respite as the water temp is too high.

Chilled pools are nice while you're submerged but laying by the pool - you just sit there dripping wet. Sweating and cooking.

You look forward to layovers to escape this horrible place!

[HKG Phooey]

Anyone at EK or EY actually like it....

BTW leave your furniture outside here and it gets covered in Lead, Mercury, Cadmium and lots of other S#!t!

[ShirleyNot]

...lots do, but none of them are on pprune.

[Bring Back The Biff]

Too hot to go outside for 4-5 months? Harden the f**k up princess - the heat here is easily manageable if you choose to be proactive. There are plenty of people on the golf courses all year round and swimming is fantastic once the heat of the day has passed. I was in Hong Kong last week and the humidity made the 32 degrees a damn sight more uncomfortable than the usually dry Dubai heat.

Pollution? Yes more now that Dubai is growing, but mostly sand in the summer - beats the crap out of the continuous toxic blanket of chemical joy that sits over Hong Kong for 350 days a year.

The job? Like anywhere there are positives and negatives and happy and unhappy campers. Varied route structure, shiny new aircraft and lots more to come, flight deck gradient very flat. Company will mess with your roster but if you learn how to bid effectively this can be minimized. Bottom line - you can't always get what you want.

Management here unlike CX, is infected with well connected and inexperienced locals - and always will be. CX on the other hand are masters of the divide and conquer management technique, EK although irritating and frustrating are rank amateurs compared to the evil masters at CX!

Training at EK is a walk in the park compared to Cathay. Their intention is to get you flying aircraft as soon as practicable - not to take sadistic pleasure in messing with you for your entire non-captain career.

Command times here are simply the quickest in the world for widebody jets, even at 5~7 years. Once you get there, you don't have the ridiculous obstacles CX likes to put in front of you - again, the intention is to get people flying their aircraft and making money.

This is not Kansas Dorothy. Your rights are not those enjoyed at home in the west - but if you keep your head down and bury that western outrage that things are not like home, you have a 99.9% chance of your time here being hassle free.

Have just re-read this post and am shocked to find it looks like I am a company man! Absolutely not the case, I rage at the stupidity of the company as much as the next person, but when the bigger picture is viewed all is not as bad as the usual suspects on PPRUNE make out.

Finally, each to his own - the sand is certainly not for everyone, but there are many here who enjoy the lifestyle and job - despite the best efforts of the feckless cretins who try to make the job more difficult than it should be.

Good luck.

[4 driver]

nice balanced view Biff.....thanks.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Grass is green job, Emirates crews would love to come to CX. :\

[Bob Hawke]

So that's why CX planes are green? Sneaky management!

[Capt Toss Parker]

Training at EK is a walk in the park compared to Cathay. Their intention is to get you flying aircraft as soon as practicable - not to take sadistic pleasure in messing with you for your entire non-captain career.
Are people speaking about me behind my back again? :eek:

[hongkongfooey]

nice balanced view Biff.....thanks

Balanced view my ar5e !! That blanket of crap is only over HK for 345 days per year, so there :{

[Capt Toss Parker]

Cathay seems to have the worst rep in the industry when it comes to negative, and aggressive, check and training. And the subsequent impediment to promotion that arise from this system.


...... Sorry guys but that's just the way I like it. There are lots of people trying to be numero uno in the Tosser stakes but I'm still number one and don't you forget it! :eek:

[tiger321]

The company will never admit it but the whole training system is massively flawed.

How else do you explain how blokes who have been here nine, ten or more years fail or really struggle with conversions to another fleet! No upgrade, just a straight conversion.

Unbelievable