The future of cadetships?

[Sonny Hammond]

Training: jobs for tomorrow (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/03/31/337753/training-jobs-for-tomorrow.html)

It seems that asking prospective pilots to front up with hundreds of thousands of dollars for the right to be paid average salaries or lower and to be flogged solidly for many years may not be as a good a solution as the beancounters first thought.....

[Sonny Hammond]

And yep, Jetstar and Virgin management, I am talking to you.

When is the race to the bottom for the australian airline pilot going to stop?

[Oxidant]

When is the race to the bottom for the australian airline pilot going to stop?

When they have caught up with what has been happening (for years) in Europe!:rolleyes::*

[Sonny Hammond]

You're quite right, but my point really is aimed at the industry as a whole.

It is now very expensive to get into this 'profession' and what do you get for your non tax deductable investment?

Potentially years on the end of a seniority list, paying for further ratings (one way or the other) all for rates of pay that can be achievable in many other industries with far less investment or personal sacrifice.

The point that the article makes is that under its current structure for cost of training vs potential rewards, there is a widening gap, with the result that eventually there will be very few takers.

The race to the stop eventually has to stop and instead of continually trying to pass the buck on costs, the industry as a whole needs to take some responsibilty (read: make an investment) for the future.

$150,000 cadetships aren't the answer.

Do you have an intelligent response to that?:ugh:

[Oxidant]

My reply was "tongue in cheek" (But true)

The problem is that the "Bean counters" saw this as a way of avoiding the cost (& risk) of training. Partly because some 15 -20 years ago, someone did the first self funded type rating. Which short circuited the then system. The rest is as they say, is history.
We have seen (in Europe) the self funded cadet schemes. (Pay to fly) Summer contracts, Summer commands, etc, etc.
The travelling public don't care, as all they want is the cheapest fare. The shareholders don't care, as they see two (cadet) pilots for the price of one(F/O)!
Lastly, there has been a steady steam of takers for these schemes, who are willing to sacrifice all to get there................
Despite a few incidents (Tail scrapes & hard [read write offs] landings) the Regulators are not interested either!

Over to you...............

[Worrals in the wilds]

I'd venture that this is one of very few industries left with many ab initio cadet programs. While once the norm for journalists, engineers, lawyers (as article clerks) etc., all those professions gradually shifted to formal tertiary study some years ago, almost completely removing the training role from employers. IMO, the trouble in aviation is that non-cadet training is not regulated through tertiary institutions such as unis or tafes, but done ad hoc by private companies with relatively little regulation.

There have been gigabytes of complaints on here about 'Snorkel Aviation ripped me off / charged me for hours I didn't fly / won't honour their agreements' etc etc etc.

You don't hear similar complaints from trainee LAMEs, because their training is done through TAFE and trade colleges. Nor do you hear this sort of thing from people doing law degrees, because there is firm government regulation about what institutions can offer them and what subjects they must contain. Additionally, there are subsidies and tax breaks available for students in formal trade or degree study.

Flying training is not the only expensive form of education. A law degree will set you back about $30K, and contrary to popular opinion will not guarantee you a job any more than an ATPL. The difference is that an LLB is a recognized, transferable qualification that can be used in other industries such as business (should you fail to become the next Rumpole of the Bailey), while flying qualifications are largely useless unless you are in aviation.

The flying school system is good at training private pilots, but IMO it lacks the profit margin, regulation, formal structure and (in many cases) qualified people to conduct such complex, expensive training. If the whole CPL - ATPL thing were regulated through either the unis or tafe, there'd be far fewer unhappy, ripped off students. In an ideal world, the standard of training would also be much more consistent.

I could be wrong, as this is only 2 pesos from the outside looking in (as an aviation worker, lapsed SPL but non commercial pilot).

[Fly-by-Desire]

If the whole CPL - ATPL thing were regulated through either the unis or tafe, there'd be far fewer unhappy, ripped off students. In an ideal world, the standard of training would also be much more consistent.


Is this a wind up?
The uni's carry on with so much crap in their aviation courses its not funny! The last thing a pilot needs to know is how to do a saftey management paper or work out how much its going to cost some company to run a 172 :ugh:

Do it through a school in 12mths and use the other 3yrs to actualy learn how to fly the damn things!
Do you honestly think Jetstar picked these two schools out of their arse? They would have at least checked how much profit they could gain to quality of product.

[Sonny Hammond]

At the end of the day, until people stop spending the money on these 'instant careers', nothing will change and our profession will continue to be exploited by the big self serving corporations.
It's crap pie they keep serving up, we have to stop eating it.:yuk:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Is this a wind up? The uni's carry on with so much crap in their aviation courses its not funny!


Nah, I don't wind up, couldn't be bothered.
The unis carry on with crap in their aviation courses because they are basically an adjunct course, a bit like studying 'business relations', 'literature in society' or one of the many bull:mad: courses available for your paying pleasure. There is no established commercial flying course, so of course various institutions will take advantage of that. I took a 'crap' aviation course, passed it and enjoyed it, becuase it opened up various aspects of the aviation industry that I hadn't previously considered. I never thought it would provide a concrete qualification,and the institution never pretended it did so.

A designated professional degree such as law or engineering is a very different matter. So is a legitimate trade course that certifies you as an electrician or plumber.

It's crap pie they keep serving up, we have to stop eating it.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Caveat Emptor, Let the Buyer Beware. One of the oldest legal precedents in our culture, although no-one ever said it was nice :sad:.