Things turning around in the EU/UAE???

[Lrjetcap]

Wanted to get the thoughts of those of you flying either contracts/established airlines on the other side of the pond. In the last month or so hiring here in the states has promptly turned around with almost every major airline/cargo hiring and most furloughees being already called back. Has it begun to turn over there as well? Just wondering if this turn for the better spreading or simply a flash in the pan......thanks.

[Wizofoz]

None of the established UAE carriers layed off anyone in the last two years, and all are now recruiting again- EK in particular at full steam.

[stansdead]

Things are grim over in Euroland for job hunters. Virtually nothing going on. Anything that is, or has been happening has been generally for summer only work. Failing that, the money has been shockingly bad.

No majors hiring. At least from what I know - except Turkish.

[northern boy]

Lets face it, Europe is in a long term decline. The Euro has tanked, several countries are headed down the toilet at a rate of knots and the oil price will only go in one direction over the next few years. Any pickup in activity will cause a hike in fuel prices and probably tip a few more carriers over the edge. This industry was built up on the back of cheap oil. It is not running out, but the easy (read cheap) to extract reserves are pretty much finished. Offshore and Arctic reserves are under huge political and environmental pressure which translate directly into higher prices.

The only countries that can run expanding aviation sectors are those with significant reserves in their own back yards. In other words the Middle East. Exports will be limited to those with the ability to pay, China and other Asian economies. That's where the growth and jobs are and where they will remain until some bright spark finds another way of filling the tanks. Not much sign of that either.

The result will, I believe, be a decline in discretionary flying over the next 10 to 15 years. The rich, the governments and the military will still fly but the age of cheapo weekends in Prague is on the way out. Even Ryanair can only give flights away and sell scratch cards for so long. I reckon most Airline managers realise this and are engaged in a race to the bottom in order to extract every last cent from the businesses before they become hopelessly uneconomic and shut up shop. Hence the rise of pay to fly, the constant erosion of pay and conditions and the series of hopeless strike actions we are now seeing starting.

I'm glad that I got some flying in before it all started to turn to poo and I can only wonder at the thought processes of those taking on 100K+ debts for 6 months slavery in an industry with little future in the medium term.
Rather them than me.

[Lrjetcap]

Well spoken Northern.....over here, everyone felt the same way about 2 months ago. And then, out of nowhere, we have Delta/Continental/Air Tran/Jet Blue and a number of regionals scratching for new hires. Now granted competetive numbers are around 8000TT and 4000 Turbine PIC but it left all of us over here scratching our heads. It seems that over there the aviation market follows our by about a month or so. Lets hope that continues for all of us. Good luck to all--:ok:
Lrjetcap

[bigjarv]

Happy happy joy joy!!

Tentative rumours about BA recruitment (limited) at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. Glad to hear things are moving in the USA again. They generally lead us! Good news!

[northern boy]

Lrjetcap.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Most of the contract jobs you see nowadays are in the Mid/Far East. Permanent jobs, over here at any rate are non existent. Even part time gigs are reserved for those willing to pay.

Hopefully, Europe will follow the US. The industry is well known for it's cycles but given the structural problems both in aviation and the wider European economies, I still maintain that any recovery will be fragile and temporary. The business might just see me to retirement, although at much reduced remuneration and probably incorporating some form of part time or seasonal element, but I would not want to be starting out with a massive debt and any kind of hopes for a 30 year career now.

On the other hand, maybe some smart little graduate in Shanghai or Dehli is cooking up an alternative to oil right now. It is unlikely to come from the West since no one does engineering or science any more and even if it did, the idea would be howled down by the greenies and taxed out of existence by governments who have finally run out of other people's money to pee up the wall. Anyone under 30 should emigrate and fast. I would but I'm 107.:}

[SVoa]

Wizzair is hiring, Brussels did hire, Ryanair hired, Easyjet are taking on lots of cadets who are going to be made long term since they are WAY short on crew... Uhm... Air Arabia is hiring (isnt THAT far from europe) Thomas cook announced a new cadet scheme through FTE... A small cargo airline in Greece called AirGo operating a BAe ATP hired last month... Another domestic carrier called Sky Express based at LGIR is hiring... A few private jet operators are hiring (cant remember their names, refer to flight global), Emirates are hiring, Ethihad is hiring, Qatar hired a few months ago, Aurigny took on a few lads a couple of months ago... Rumors, which to me personally have been confirmed, of BA hiring at the end of this year... And im sure there are other small domestic carriers in many countries taking on pilots which we dont hear of in this forums.. because those aren't airplanes, they are just these weird things flying around that no one has ever heard of... But no jet engines strapped to them, and no cabin crew on them so they arent worth considering.

Other than that, yeeaaahhh no one is hiring im affraid...
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Get off of pprune and go looking for jobs!!!!!!!!

SVoa

[fastidious bob]

SVO... Well said!

[Lrjetcap]

Didnt mean this thread to flame up.....just found it interesting how things have seemed to flip as fast as they did here and was wondering if you fellas over there had seen the same. Got a email from Emirates today stating they are coming over to the mainland in July to recruit everywhere from NYC to Miami to LA. One can hope for a fast turnaround right??:confused:

[Denti]

Things are not bright in the EU, but not really bad either. Lufty did hire throughout the crisis, albeit in very small numbers and of course their own cadets only. Swiss did hire as well, as did this year again Air Berlin, Belair and Niki, in fact training on one fleet is at its limit within those last three and they cannot get guys (and gals) fast enough on the line. We probably won't see rapid growth like 2006 or 2005 soon, but things are turning around slowly. The low euro does hurt airlines though as they do have still big budgetary items in US $, mainly lease rates and fuel costs. Whereas the rest of the economy really loves it since they can compete a lot better on a worldwide playing field, germany for example just announced the lowest unemployment numbers for may since 18 years, which in turn means more passengers as more need to fly or can afford it again.

[SVoa]

My previous post was not aimed at hammering at anyone. Im just sick of hearing people in here complaining that there are no jobs when there clearly are. Its just that when people say "flying jobs" the majority really only mean ryanair, easyjet, BA and bla bla bla... most captains who work for BA probably didnt start off there..

Airlines are hiring! Yes I know they ask for that expensive thing called a type rating :} However, if you look around you will see more and more airlines adopting a bond for cadets now. Some airlines are realising that its within their best interests to train a cadet and keep him/her for a couple of years. Its not ALL bad.. thats all im saying

SVoa

[Lrjetcap]

Understood. While I was reading some of the responses I wondered if any of you had the choice of carrier to work for over there, who would it be? I dont keep up often with the work rules or pay of foreign operators but moving over to Spain or the UK has peaked my interest of late....I know transferring over the ATPL can be costly and some countries are tougher on citizenship then others.....just interested in what the most competetitive jobs are over there right now.....thanks in advance for the responses.

[SVoa]

I have a pretty good image of what things are like inside many airline offices and what I can tell you for sure is that in many countries in Europe, airlines hire without really hiring if you know what i mean. They take on pilots, but officially they havent taken on anyone because its never been announced anywhere. So basically whoever knows someone gets in when the airline needs pilots. Thats how it works where i am from and i know for a fact that with many countries (italy and spain for example) its pretty much the same. Dont forget i am talking about local airlines, so EZY for example based in spain doesnt count.

The people that have the best connections in these countries are usually locals. There is a fair bit of "discrimination". Whether it actually is discrimination is up to your own interpretaion.. To answer your question, trying to relocate to another EU country is not hard, as long as you find the way into the airline.

SVoa

[747JJ]

SVoa

You are spot on. There are jobs around, more every day. I've had several offers in the last few days and, mhh how should I put it, pet projects, that I have been working on for a while. A few phone interviews and some I turned down. So clearly the situation is not as grim as it could be.

Summer contracts. Yes quite a few of these around as well. Some well paid but not worth leaving a company that has work all year around. Fortunately jobs that have longer term potential are also on the increase.

Hajj is coming again in some months time and thats another source of seasonal work opening positions with some companies for longer term employment.

[stansdead]

Hi JJ,

I can only assume that you are hearing about jobs that others don't know about, or are prepared to move a long way from home.

Short of Turkish Airlines and a couple of things in North or West Africa (:uhoh:), the only stuff I see or hear about is ME or FE/SE Asia.

I still maintain that things in Europe are, to all intents and purposes, dead.

[747JJ]

Word of mouth most of it and talking to some old mates who are in the know of matters. Only 2 of the jobs I was looking at where advertised on the net.

Long haul is what interest me, flying half what I do now or if I fly as much I'd rather do 10th of the sectors. VVIP flying such as I did in the early years of the century (makes me feel old) as well. Maximum money, minimum work :E

Going away from Europe would not really interest me, but I must admit that the salaries paid on the 747 and even the Airbus in China are starting to look quite good with the dropping Euro.

[northern boy]

I agree with Stanstead. There may well be a few positions for those "in the know" within Europe but as I said in my original post, the bulk of the contacts or long term posts are in the Middle east or SE Asia. That's where the money is, that's where the economies are expanding and that's where the locals have more sense than to sit in a metal tube for a living.

747JJ, you are correct in stating that the money in China is starting to look tempting, in fact I'm in the process of trying for a contract right now.

SVo, I never said there where no jobs available, I said that Europe is struggling and I still maintain that the boom years are over for good and any recovery in the Euro aviation sector will be very slow and very weak with more casualties over the years.

Tough luck on the PTF types, little chance of employment for the majority and no chance of a ME/FE heavy with 300hours. Not that they will believe that. Almost makes you want to set up a TRTO and get rich but then I have a conscience. Always been my downfall.:)