"Frozen ATPL"

[ravan]

I have seen an number of Resumes from pilots looking for work at an entry level charter company cross the boss's desk recently stating that they have a "frozen" ATPL.

I thought that the "Frozen" ATPL was something that you could hold in Europe (JAA) whereas in Australia you held a CPL (with ATPL Subjects) until you had the hours requirements to hold an ATPL.

Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

[apache]

it is "FROZEN" until you meet the hour requirements!

As DICK says.... it is worlds best practice, so we will copy absolutely EVERYTHING, ad nauseum, even if it doesn't work here properly!!!!

[Towering Q]

We used to put those resumes in the freezer to keep the cordial bottles company.:cool:

[Peter Fanelli]

Frozen ATP, what a stupid term. If you don't have the hours you can't have the license/certificate. Frozen or otherwise.

Real pilots have a Senior Commercial anyway. :E

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

When I passed the IREX I put "Frozen MECIR" on all subsequent CVs.

(Then of course I was absolutely shocked when I got the sticky label and realised that it wasn't a MECIR at all, it was an IR-C-ME.)

On a serious note in JAA-Land is Frozen ATPL an officially sanctioned term or is it just lingo?

FRQ CB

(And no, I didn't really do that).

[Van Gough]

Real pilots have a Senior Commercial anyway

what was the requirements for a senior commercial just out of interest?:confused:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Three ex-wives, a dog who can survive on a 2 on 2 off diet, several missed anniversaries, a mid-life crisis (or two), the ability to sleep in daylight and of course a moustache capable of twirling around your pinkie finger.

What have I forgotten?

FRQ CB

[Led Zep]

Stubbies and knee high white socks.

[PLovett]

Van Gough, a more serious answer to your question is that the Senior Commercial licence was issued to pilots who had completed all of the requirements for an ATPL but did not fly for an airline.

This was back in the days when aviation in Australia was ruled with an iron rod by people who loved wearing uniforms with peaked caps and lots of gold braid. They would only issue an ATPL to pilots who flew for the airlines, if you were in GA then you could only be issued with a Senior Commercial licence.

Stupid, crazy rules that some in Australia still regard as the golden days of aviation.

[ab33t]

I thought the ticket was kept in a freezer , confused

[Artificial Horizon]

Yes in JAR land ATPL (frozen) is an officially recognised licence statement. When carrying out a full time course in the UK the student doesn't even attempt PPL / CPL written exams, instead they complete all the ATPL subjects which covers the others. On completion they have a CPL / IR but with all ATPL credits for the written and since there is no futher flight test for the ATPL issue they are deemed to have an ATPL (frozen) as it is just experience required to validate the licence. Here in OZ the same term can't really be used as first of all the candidate can't just do ATPL exams to cover the rest, they make you do both CPL Airlaw as a pre-requisite for ATPL Airlaw.

[neville_nobody]

I for one would not be putting that on a resume as it could be used against you in the future. The first your boss in GA land needs to know about your license status is when you resign and go to an airline. I even saw someone get a gig because he didn't have ATPL subjects.

Unfortunately there is alot of animosity and tall poppy syndrome in GA and anything out of the norm will be jumped on. That includes degrees, ATPLs, rich parents, disproportionate experience even getting a job :rolleyes: (oh how did you get a job at such and such a place with less than 20 000 hours?)

I have also met guys who had a lucky break and picked up twin time with a low total time (or worked in Europe) and got hammered by potential employers when looking for a job because they had high twin time and low total time.

[patienceboy]

A quick google search reveals that the term is widely used by training organisations in Australia to indicate that one has passed all ATPL theory subjects but does not yet meet the flight hour requirements for issue of an ATPL.

As Neville has said, this may work against you in GA.

[help me jebus]

1111111111

[The Green Goblin]

From my experience the guys with ATPLs and MECIRs with appropriate endorsements were favoured as they didn't need time off to do either.

If you have ATPLs doesn't mean you need to say you do unless the job requires it :ok:

[Icarus2001]

There is no recognised "frozen" ATPL in Australia. It is simply shorthand for "I have the exams but do not have the licence yet".

A phrase imported from Europe.

About as useful as saying your AFL team came second.:hmm:

[Unhinged]

Despite some statements to the contrary in this thread, there is no official recognition of a "frozen ATPL" or "ATPL (frozen)" by the aviation regulators in any country.

It is a marketing term, invented by flying schools to make students feel better about the truly vast amounts of cash that they have parted with. ("With only 200 hours flying, you can have a frozen ATPL, almost the same licence as a 747 Captain, and be on your way to the airlines !")

It is easily-understood short-hand, but that also means easily misunderstood, because the requirements for ATPL issue vary. It is usually taken to mean someone with a CPL plus IR (or IR-C-ME in Oz-speak) plus passes in all ATPL subjects. But a helicopter ATPL doesn't require an Instrument Rating in the GAFA, so what does it mean there ? Some countries require a flight test for ATPL issue and some don't, so what does it mean there ?

It's the same as all marketing - Utterly meaningless, but designed to engender a warm fuzzy feeling in its victims !