Any news on what happened at the eyesight meeting??

[Airline Pilot Wannabe]

Dear fellow wannabees!

Everyone was saying the the CAA (or JAA) were going to be holding a meeting to discuss this daft 3 diopter eyesight problem. A lot of people were saying that the meeting was going to be held in August.

I am writing to ask if ANYONE knows what was said at this meeting or what the outcome was??

Any feedback is very helpful and appreciated.

heres hoping it goes in our favour!!

Cheers,

DEAN (APW)

[Jetset Willy]

I would also be very interested to hear the outcome of this.

Even if they did decide to waive the 3 diopetre ruling, I wonder whether this would only apply to those who are short-sighted (-3). It seems that you are penalised more by the CAA for being long sighted (in the + range).
e.g. If you are renewing a class 1, then the eyesight standards drop from -3 to -5, yet the long sighted range stays fixed at +3, so you can't even try and get round it by the 500 hours ruling, as you could if you were short sighted.

e.g.2. Also it appears the CAA (according to their website) now allow for corrective surgery. Yipee! I thought. However "This does not apply for correction of long sightedness or astigmatism" it goes on to say.

It seems that if you are unfortunate enough to be long sighted (even though you can see fine without glasses) then you are out of luck with the CAA... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[Bomber Harris]

APW,
I have some info on this one.

There was quite a lively discussion on the subject and full agreement was not reached. Several states wanted to eliminate any diopter restrictions but 3 or 4 states would only agree to increase the limit to 5 diopters for initial issue. As agreement was not reached there has been no change.

A further meeting is scheduled for first week in December at which a decision will be made. The likely outcome will be an increase to 5 diopter for initial issue. If agreement is reached then change is likely to be quick. However, if agreement is not reached (and please don't ask me to go into the complications of JAA rulemaking!!!) then the decision will have missed a certain deadline which would prevent the rule change being speedy. It is likely that the diopter limit will be completly removed at a later stage in order to bring certain nations along slowly.

I am unaware if any changes were proposed or discussed to the + diopter issue.

Hope this is of help. I have mentioed before on this forum, if pilots from "certain" countries were to campain to their local medical reps the whole thing could move a lot faster.

[Mr. Fussy]

The latest info I have had - direct from the CAA in the form of a letter is that they have extended their limits to +/- 5 diopteres with immediate effect and therefore those that meet this requirement should contact the CAA straightaway. Having said that, I failed my Class One 14 months ago and two weeks ago I passed! This is due to several reasons but the consultant decided I was not a safety issue.

Good luck to all those who are waiting for that Class one, I know how it feels and somedays it would have been easier to give up, however, stick at it and you will get there in the end!

[Jetset Willy]

That is excellent news Mr. Fussy. I know that feeling well.

[wcall]

Mr. Fussy, just so I don't get too excited at overcoming this diopter barrier, was your medical an inital or a renewal? I know it reads like an inital but thought I'd better check. If this is true i'll be on the phone in the morning.....

[Wicked Witch]

Fantastic news if it is true!! I have my Class 1 (initial) booked in afew weeks and was hoping to catch the Optician on a good day, maybe the challenge won't be so great now!!

Wcall, have you spoken to the CAA?

WW :)

[wcall]

Of course, booked in Oct. Now they are checking to see if the cylinder is greater than 2, fortunately I'm ok. Good luck.

[dcb]

I spoke to the CAA a couple of days ago. They did not confirm that there was definitely going to be a change.

However, they did say that after speaking to one of the medical examiners that there are changes afoot and that they will know more in approximately 2 weeks time.

I am currently just outside the limits, but I have to go to see the CAA opthalmologist in 2 weeks. I have kerataconus in my right eye and need to know whether it will stop me from holding a Class 1 under any new limits or the existing ones after having refractive surgery. So I will definitely find out what is going on then.

[FatFlyer]

Does anyone know if they will be discussing colour vision testing, to perhaps introduce tests along the lines of USA and Australia or is it just about Dioptres?

[Sassenach]

I've just called Gatwick - the limit has been increased to +/-5D!

[ravenx]

not wishing to put out the fire or owt - but I had heard that many of the airlines impose their own eyesight rules anyway. So even of you have a class one they can still say you don't meet their standards and therefore not employ you.

Anyone know how much truth there is in this

And while I'm here what a P$%^$£r. I've had laser surgery because I was -3.5 in one eye and -3 in the other. Because of that they wouldn't let me have a class one and despite phoning and asking about ways around the problem no one ever mentioned the 500 hour rule.

PAH !

[Mr. Fussy]

cwall,

yes this is at initial issue, +/- 5 diopteres now so go for it!

Best of luck!

[JR_MAS]

Any news on the cylinder regs?

I am under the main limit now due to the change to -5, but has the cylinder limit increased from 2?

[This message has been edited by JR_MAS (edited 17 September 2000).]

[TimC]

Whats the story with regard to astigmatism? I'm -0.25 in each eye due to astigmatism, would I pass a class 1?

[JR_MAS]

The regs as I understand it are +/- 5 refractive error, +/- 2 astigmatism and +/-2 difference between the eyes.

The +/- 5 refractive has recently changed from +/-3, but I'm wondering if the astigmatism error has changed as well?

I've emailed the CAA medical department, but they may take some time to reply.

[Dr Jekyll]

From what I hear the astigmatism and difference between the eyes (anismetropia?) limits are still at 2. In other words, they have simply applied the renewal limits to initial issue.

[ASRAAM]

RAVENX,

You are correct. Lots of major airlines have stricter medical requirements for entry than a Class 1 Medical.

There are several reasons for this but the main ones are:

Loss of Licence Insurance. If the airline provides this cover someone who is close to a medical limit may stray over it later in life. Lots of claims means high policy prices (for the airline)

Cost of Training. You would expect a good return of service if you put someone through a 747 course.

All things are of course relative, if you can recruit pilots well inside medical parameters why take a risk on someone close to the edge? If pilots are in short supply then anyone who meets Class 1 is in.

[Bomber Harris]

Assram.....you are absolutly spot on with your comments.

That is why the 5 diopter rule change is useless to most people. In general people who are myopic (shortsighted) will get progressively worse throughout their life but are unlikely to reach a level that is uncorrectable to 20/20. Thus if the 5 diopter rule were moved to infinity (as ICAO recommends) then airlines would not care what strength correction you require at the time of employment, because you can not go out side limits later on in life. A myopic and a non-myopic will have the same chance of developing an non-myopic related eye problem which will result in loss of license therefore the myopic will not be discriminated against. Basic logic!!

So the way forward for people like me (with class 1 but just about inside) is for the removal of all limits by the regulatory authorities. This will result in airlines removing their limits (as has happened in the U.S.).

These changes are a small step in the right direction. We just need the dinasours at the CAA to grab the bull by the horns and make a fair and just decision and put this aging issue to bed once and for all!!!

[Sassenach]

Just a thought (and please excuse my naïvety) but if you possess a class 1 certificate and an airline refuses to employ you, isn't that a case of discrimination?

BTW, if anyone wants to call Gatwick to find out the intricate details of the eyesight rules, the number is 01293 567171

[ASRAAM]

Sassenach,

You raise an interesting point. Following the adoption of the Human Rights Convention in the UK I would expect to see Douglas Bader back in the cockpit!!!

Seriously though I do not think it will be too long before someone who is prevented from persuing their chosen career by an arbitary CAA/JAA medical limit will challenge them in court.

ie If it is deemed safe for someone to fly a US registered 747 into LHR on an FAA medical then to deny a Brit with the same medical condition a medical is surely discrimination.

[wingnaprayer]

Some interesting comments on what is a hot topic...especially for those of us that are nervous about how close we are to the "edge" of the many limits. I note that Aer Lingus impose a 1.5 diopter rule. I wonder if this will move out as a result of the recent good news.

[Dirk]

Hello all
As far as I know the ban on refractive surgery has been lifted.
Have a look under the FAQs on:
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/med/med_faq_Detail.asp?ID=100

I spoke to Mr Adrian Chorley at the CAA about 1 month ago, he is an optometrist there, and he was able to confirm this.

Cheers
Dirk

[loz]

does anybody know if the -5 limit will be in apllication in all jaa countries(especially belgium, france??)???
it seems to be normal that if the licence is accepted in all the states then it would be logic that the medical requirements are the same for all the jaa members...
can u help me thank u very much??
thank u very much,
loz

[jj7]

I don't think so.It's probably UK CAA
own decision to increase the limit to
-5 D.AS it was to lift the ban for
refractive surgery.Refractive surgery is
not approved in JAR-FCL although some
JAA member states approve the surgery.
(UK, Norway).
Before -5 diopter limit or refractive surgery is approved in JAR-FCL there must be decision for approval made by JAR-FCL medical sub committee.Hopefully in their
next meeting they will change the rules.
Let's hope so !