Cockpit window Sun Shade

[amos747]

Just curious, does your company have a policy regarding the use of private sun shades (i.e. the ones you use to block the sun on windshields of parked cars) in the cockpit. I am specifically referring to the ones you cannot see through. How else would you block the sun in the cockpit, avoiding sun damage to your skin?

[Nightrider]

Sunshades and the likes are not mentioned explicitly, however, there is the basic rule in almost every FOM that a lookout (also in cruise etc.) is mandatory.
Worked for an airline where even the use of explicitly described sunglasses was mandatory. :ugh:

Using the self-manufactured (papers / maps) sunshades, this includes also the ones available in shops for car windscreens, may lead to overheating of the window, serious implications may be the result. :eek:

How far, however, some colleagues protect themselves from the big yellow heater you may be able to see when scrolling through pictures on this website (http://airliners.net), just search in 2005 / 2006 for B737-400 landings in ORY, you may be impressed. Sorry, do not have the direct link available anymore. Needless to say that this colleague is not with this airline anymore...

[FullWings]

I find the FT and The Telegraph the best as they have kept the broadsheet format and the paper has good attenuating properties. There's normally something interesting to read, too.

Airbus definitely win this battle - the difference between what is provided by them vs. Boeing is like night and day.

...may lead to overheating of the window...

Possible but a) they're thermostatically controlled and b) are designed to work in ambient temperatures over a range of at least -50C to +50C. The only failures I've heard of with heated windows are short circuits (arcing) or controller units sticking on or off.

[FlightDetent]

block the sun in the cockpit, avoiding sun damage to your skin? Simple, the window panes block all the damaging rays by design.

FD (the un-real)

[amos747]

Simple, the window panes block all the damaging rays by design

Interesting, never heard that b4. My layman's understanding of the sun's radiation spectrum is that it is virtually impossible to block all of the harmful rays. My dermatologist, for one, claims that we (i.e. flight deck crews) are nuts, allowing ourselves to be exposed to harmful rays at high altitudes with less crap in the atmosphere to block some of it. Anyway, thanks all for your replies. I regularly use sun shades, be it news papers, folders or the automobile one I carry in my flight bag. I turn on radar, tcas and take a peek every now and then, just to make sure I'm not head on with Mt. Everest.

Fly safely.

[p51guy]

The aircraft windows offer little if any protection from the sun. My left forearm with considerable skin damage vs right with none and remembering the heat on my left forearm during flight proves it to me. The heat sensation I noticed mainly in my 50's. The obvious skin damage in my 60's. I should have used more protection to protect that arm.

[Max Angle]

My left forearm with considerable skin damage

Which begs the question, short or long sleeves. My preference is for short in all but the coldest weather but perhaps I should be using long sleeved ones. I was under the impression that the windows did block the UV but perhaps not.

[STBYRUD]

Are you implying that what seems like almost two centimetres worth of glass and vinyl block less radiation than sunglasses barely a millimetre thick? I find that hard to believe...

[1-26E]

This site Ultraviolet radiation indoors: What you don't know can hurt you. (http://www.smartskincare.com/skinprotection/uv-indoors.html) has the following information. Don't know if it specifically applies to aircraft windshields but it would seem to explain some of the observations here.

In the modern world, people are spending ever greater portion of their time in cars. This trend is likely to continue unless rising fuel costs and/or global warming bring about major changes in our transportation habits.
In the majority of modern cars, the windshield is built of laminated glass that blocks all of UVB and the vast majority of UVA. However, the side and rear windows are usually made from non-laminated glass and let much of UVA through. Clear non-laminated car windows allow up to 60-70% of UVA to penetrate. Tinting reduces UVA penetration to about 15-30%, a much better but still significant level.
If your car has clear glass windows, you can add tinting at a qualified auto shop. However, make sure the facility can guarantee compliance with the federally mandated standard of 70 percent of minimum visible light transmittance through the windshield.
There are other factors influencing UVA exposure in the car: you position (the closer you are to a non-laminated window, the greater the exposure), direction of driving relative to the sun, time of day/year, etc. However, people rarely have much control over any of these. Therefore, you should still use sun protection measures while in the car, such as sunscreens, protective clothing, and so forth.

[FCS Explorer]

rip off the covers of some magazines, slide them up into the window frame and fix, if needed, with adhesive strips. for cruise only. also good for the other guy on the "dark" side of the flight deck since the air con temp can now be set to be less freezing.

[FullWings]

I think the main windows on most jets do block a large percentage of UV of various sorts but even 1% (or 0.1%) transmission at 30-40,000' lets in a fair bit, in absolute terms, as you are above most of the atmosphere and there's precious little between you and the surface of the sun.

When I first started longhaul, I actually got mild sunburn on a long sector. Since then (being something of a canary in terms of UV) I've used sunblock and shield myself from direct sunlight.

Nothing worse than a long flight from Europe to the west coast of the USA, sun stuck right in front of you for 11hrs... Thanks goodness for the Sunday supplements!

[zorin]

The rays definitely get in , ! If you meet a high time longhaul Captain the left side of his face will often have considerably more sun damage than the right.

Especially at this time of year the sun actually burns and is uncomfortable at altitude.

Raise the blinds , use the Telegraph or buy some of those Halfords pop out screens to stick on the window ( conventionally inside)

You won't really know how bad the damage is until it's too late.

[con-pilot]

Unfolding maps and then refolding them to where they completly block the sun usually worked for me.

We usually removed them before landing.

[p51guy]

Just don't try it on a line check or check ride. I think restricting cockpit visibility would be frowned at. Sunscreen and a sleeve might be more FAA friendly.

[NSEU]

Aren't most of those car sunshades metallic? I wouldn't be putting anything metallic anywhere near the 115V window heat terminals, even if they are covered (to an extent) with rubber or plastic caps.

[GlueBall]

. . ."there is the basic rule in almost every FOM that a lookout (also in cruise etc.) is mandatory.

Are you a cadet pilot, or is this something new? . . . as I have not read nor been told that a "lookout" was mandatory in cruise; nor have I ever heard of any crew taking turns to look out of the non-covered/non-shaded window(s) for 12 hours. . . :confused:

As a matter of fact, in cruise I'm usually kicked back; reclined in the chair with my feet up on the dash reading a magazine . . . . :ooh:

[Nightrider]

GlueBall, interesting view; and yes, after >24,000 hrs sometimes I feel like a cadet...
And it is interesting to read and hear how much FOM knowledge is available.

[Pull what]

Cmon girls all you need to do is use the right moisteriser in the morning with a UV factor!

[FCS Explorer]

yeah sure, as if the job wasn't unhealthy enough i'm gonna start rub on that chemical dirt so i can stare at the sun for some ghost aircraft crossing the track out of nowhere. :ugh:

[muduckace]

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/dlbmuduck/27761_10150186179370475_579550474_1.jpg

[TyroPicard]

I think the question is about the cruise phase - not parked with engines off....

[Agaricus bisporus]

Given that almost all scheduled airline ops operate on IFR flightplans which assume flight in permanent IMC how can a visual lookout be mandatory? Sure you'd use it where you can, but in IMC/IFR it cannot, ipso facto, be mandatory.

I've recently had an FO react in a most inappropriate manner due to a percieved conflict with co-ordinated IFR traffic that would have taken the controller very much by surprise had it continued. Sometimes acting on what you see by looking out of the window can be quite counterproductive.

Personally calls like "Bigbird xxx maintain heading due crossing traffic 10 o'clock same level call clear of traffic" make me cringe. How can we assume that the traffic we think we've identified is the one he intended? We cannot. Thus taking the authority for avoidance based on our own unverifiable visual criteria is surely a nonsense in the controlled IFR environment? Dosen't this negate the entire point of IFR altogether?

My answer to the above is invariably "not visual", as per our flight plan.

Lookout in IMC/IFR? How?

Incoming!!!

[muduckace]

Yes, but some questions were raised about damaging windows and I meant to add a comment. These (automotive type) reflective blinds are commercially available to fit aircraft windows. They have not done any perminant damage to my knowledge but have resulted in more false window heat failures at the gate (usually cleared up with a bottle of cold water).

I guess the question is, if you had these blinds at your disposal in flight would you be inclined to use them?

[cosmo kramer]

Personally calls like "Bigbird xxx maintain heading due crossing traffic 10 o'clock same level call clear of traffic" make me cringe. How can we assume that the traffic we think we've identified is the one he intended? We cannot. Thus taking the authority for avoidance based on our own unverifiable visual criteria is surely a nonsense in the controlled IFR environment? Dosen't this negate the entire point of IFR altogether?

My answer to the above is invariably "not visual", as per our flight plan.

Lookout in IMC/IFR? How?

Incoming!!!

Well, maybe it may be so that you are not the only dot on the ATCOs scope? Hence, by calling him he will be able to focus his attention you again. Confirming for himself that you are clear, and issue you your climb/descend, what-ever clearance.

But if you prefer not to help and give this information this is of course your prerogative. Of course you can always call him 5 mins later with "Bigbird xxx, we're still maintaining flxxx", when he forgotten all about your request for another level.

Besides from that IFR flightplan does not imply that you are IMC or VMC. As long as you are VMC, lookout is required. Procedures for lost com is also different depending IMC or VMC. Hence you can't say that your are IMC because you filed and IFR flightplan.

Last but not least, Class E airspace may contain uncontrolled VFR traffic. A good lookout + reduced speed may be very advisable.

[Jo90]

Personally I have always considered that keeping as good a lookout as conditions permit is basic good airmanship. Reducing the sun's glare on your face improves your ability to maintain that lookout.

Mr Boeing is very good at providing sun shades which fail to fit tight up to the edge of the windscreen and the sun has an amazing knack of positioning itself so as to shine through the resulting gap.

My solution has been to buy a strip of green plastic intended to be used along the top of a car windscreen. Cut into 30cm lengths and used with three thicknesses it has light blocking qualities similar to that of the Boeing shades. The plastic is self clinging both to itself and to glass. When not in use it fits neatly in my briefcase.

(Lettering such as WAYNE or TRACY is optional.)

[Oyster Shucker]

Could these shades be left in position for takeoffs and landings? I just couldn’t find the reference. Thanks!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1500/img_4185_a0cec44035fd3239c745f7c50d61e7a0d44d72c2.jpeg

[josephfeatherweight]

Could these shades be left in position for takeoffs and landings? I just couldn’t find the reference. Thanks!



A question I've also always wanted an answer to, so thanks for asking!
The answer probably is "Depends on who's sitting in the seat next to you..."

[Jump Complete]

If the cockpit windows block most of the UV light, why are my epaulettes several shades lighter yellow than the spares that are still in their wrapper?

[STBYRUD]

Because the seat belts and your coat rub on them?

[Mr Good Cat]

If the cockpit windows block most of the UV light, why are my epaulettes several shades lighter yellow than the spares that are still in their wrapper?

They don't block ALL UV light, and they don't block visible light. Visible light energy heats things up and bleaches them. All about 'free radicals'... and I'm not referring to heavily militant union members :-)

[sixgee]

Getting the foldy uppy window shade in a 787 back into its bag without permanently disfiguring it was a line check pass/fail item in my last airline. 😳

[NutLoose]

What about

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/parmor.php

or

https://www.bestglide.com/products/sunguard-aviation-marine-sunshield

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/sunguardbig.php