HAWKER 900xp

[mourgo]

Anyone operate Hawkers that can give me some feedback on their experiences with them? Positives and Negatives please.

[HermanTheGerman]

the greatest advantage in my eyes is, that you can fill it up with 8 pax and still go full fuel. I don't know other aircraft in this class which are able to do that. Very reliable.
greatest disadvatage: lack of luggage space. no outside luggage compartment. with 8 pax going on a long several-day-trip you definetly have a problem.

[gregwood]

Yes you are right. But you can still go with full fuel in a 800 or 750 with full pax. Maybe the question was: How better is the 900 when compared to the 800/750?

[B200Drvr]

6.7% Better, The 750 is range limited, and the baggage compartment is useless. The 850 is great, and can go full fuel, full pax but has to step climb, the 900 takes off in 1000 ft less in RUH, and can get much higher much quicker at max gross than the 850. All in all a nice improvement on a good airframe.

[x933]

Cabin layout on the Hawkers doesn't work if you've got a full load, the sofa's not big enough for 3 people for any great period of time. Added to if you've got 8 people with a suitcase each there's nowhere to put one.

The Sovereign does a better of lifting 6+ people, it's got a bigger hold, is longer and cheaper.

[HermanTheGerman]

well I don't think that the question was "which one of the competitors is better". But if it was:

It is of course depending on what you want. For me the full-pax-full-fuel point is a great issue. For some other operations it might not.

all the competitors are unable to go full-fuel-full-pax. CL 300, G200, G250, Sovereign- all the same.

If you are thinking of buying a new aircraft and money is not the issue, I would think of a Hawker 4000. Full-pax-full-fuel, and the luggage problem of the HS125 definetly solved. But don't buy one of the first serial numbers. And make sure that the new, redesigned toilet is available.

[B200Drvr]

Sovereign is $17 000 000, Hawker 900 is $14 000 000. Full fuel, Sovereign does 2800 nm, Hawker 900 does 2900 nm, Eight pax, Sovereign does 2500 nm, Hawker 900 still does 2900 nm.
If you know how to pack a Hawker, you can carry a decent load.

[Rob2160]

I fly a 900XP, Based in Australia.

I have about 500 hrs in command on it

Pros -

Yes you can load it up with full pax and full fuel.

It is almost impossible to get the CG out of balance.

It will go straight to 38,000 at MGTOW, and to 41,000 after an hour. (we generally have ISA +10)

It will give you around 6.5 hours endurance (Landing with 1500lbs in tanks) at 410kts TAS

It is a STRONG Solid airframe

Proline 21 Avionics are a dream to use.

It is very agile but stable (I recently flew Perth to Sydney 1700nm at 39,000 with no autopilot)

CONS - Luggage space

Luggage Space

Luggage Space

It is a great 4-5 pax aircraft, once you have 8 Pax with overnight bags, things get really squeezy.

I often joke that packing the luggage is like playing a game of tetris....

Uses LOTS of runway for a small jet.

There is NO way it could do 2900nm. You would be landing with unrealistic reserves.

I have flown it at M 0.70 for 6.5 hours (2400nm air range) and we landed with 1600lbs remaining (one hour reserve)

Overall, I love flying the plane. It makes short work of Australia, and will fly Perth - Sydney in around 3.5 hours..

It will also fly Sydney - Perth in around 5.5 hours (typical winds 80 - 90 kts headwind when flying west)

It will fly Sydney - Perth non stop in any winds up to around 120kts average headwind.. greater than this and you need a refuel stop.

For anyone interested I have a very accurate Excel based W and B sheet for our aircraft.. I'm happy to forward to anyone who would like to play around with it and see what the aircraft can do.... EDIT.. I have had so many requests for this I have posted a link... you can download it here..

http://74.50.85.67/900xp/900XP.xls

Cheers

[Kelly Hopper]

Educate your pax to bring squashy bags and you will be surprised what will fit in the Hawker. As soon as one turns up with a hard one however and you are screwed.

[KirkyMS]

You never had the pleasure to fly in Russia, did you ? :} But you´re right, the correct Luggage makes things much easier on the Hawker !

@Rob Perfectly correct :D

[HermanTheGerman]

I did EBBR-UASK (great circle distance 2838NM) several times in a 900XP, yes, always tailwind average 60-80kt, 2-3 pax, flight time more than 7 hours (yes M .65 or less as I remember) but still all the reserves on board at destination. (but don't ask me for the numbers- I just don't remember). UASK-EBBR never possible without fuel stop.

[Rob2160]

Herman,

Yes, 7 hours with 70 Kts tailwind accounts for 490 nm...

On your EBBR - UASK 2838 NM leg

This would give you 2348 nm air miles..

Sounds spot on with my experiences...

[B200Drvr]

Rob.
Your figures are spot on, the 2900 is absolute range no reserve, so Your 2400 with reserve would be about on the money.
All in all, still the best in class.

[mourgo]

Thanks guys for your honest feedback. Gives me a 2nd point of view on our purchase!

[Denim and leather]

Hi everyone,

I need to ask this following question;

About the Hawker 4000,do we need to get another full type rating course, when
your are already driver on 900 series with experience?

Good week end.

[ginopino]

Yes.... it's a new type-rating..................

[Denim and leather]

Thank you.

[WALKINONCLOUDS]

The Sovereign does a better of lifting 6+ people, it's got a bigger hold, is longer and cheaper.


I cant remeber, has a Cessna Sovereign ever had a engine shot of of it and landed.....


Hawker built like a tank, flys like a dream..........Even on one engine left.

[TKS850]

Has the RWY performance fixures been updated from 800/850 ?

I understood that the 850 has the same numbers as the 800XP.

[Gsixfifty]

Hawkers have two systems that IMHO every jet should have...

Lift Dump and Rudder Bias.

I re-affirm the attributes already discussed. I've taken an 800XP (w/ PL21) 5:30 w/7 pax and landed with 1700 lbs @ M75+. Although I haven't flown one, I've heard the 900 is that much better.

Although in the current market, if you don't absolutely have to have a new airplane, look at the Falcon 50s. It's a lot of airplane for the price and the savings in purchase price will buy many years worth of fuel and mx. :ok:

G

[natops]

i've flown xpc(i)'s from '04, plse pm and i will answer. thx

I even want to a join diffferent companie, thx.

N.:ok:

[hawker750]

800/850/900 etc all great aircraft, all with the same baggage problem that has to be got over by small crew bags and "educated" passengers.

In my view the straight 800B without reversers is the best. It is certified to FL 430 which makes a big difference if you are going for range and it is certainly great to see the headwind drop from -50 to -10 by climbing from 400 to 430. As far as range is concerned temp and weight obviously come in to the equation but my record is 7 hours airborne Martinsburg West Virginia to Luton direct. and the landing fuel was JAR Ops legal!

The 800A is only certified to 410 and I believe XP's 850's 900's etc are the same. Any one know why because that extra 2000 ft makes a big difference and the lack of reversers makes the engine more efficient. So go for an 800B not a 900 and save yourself 12 million dollars!;)

[jackx123]

Go LR60 :}

[Lembrado]

Evening,

Question please:

What is the single engine inoperative speed for calculating take off alternate distance radius?


Thanks.

[DUAL RATED]

Hawker750

As I understand it, to do with Engine disk burst and puncturing the fuselage with FAA certification, unless you have a semi pressure bulk head like Gulfstream’s etc which then allows them up above the FL410. If your Fan disk is behind not a problem, think lears are behind maybe someone can confirm that

[fedba]

HI

I see on the thread there is a couple of Aussie 900 pilots. Maroomba in Perth have advertised for H 900 pilots. Any info on their operation, good, bad or indifferent?

Thanks
Fed

[Tmbstory]

Gsixfifty:

The Rudder Bias and the Lift Dump are excellent, also the elevators in the Hawker range are number one in the Landing phase.

Tmb

[formulaben]

by Gsixfifty (http://www.pprune.org/members/340481-gsixfifty)


Hawkers have two systems that IMHO every jet should have...

Lift Dump and Rudder Bias.I concur. :ok:

[hawker750]

The 900XP is a noticeable improvement with the -50 engines.

Oh yes, what I would love is an 800B, no reversers fitted with -50's. Somebody should do a retrofit program:
1/ Effectively zero time airframe and gear
2/ -50 engines
3/ Blended winglets
4/ Price $6-7 million.
It would be hard to beat but I think HBC would not be too happy about a better product an less than half the price being on the market.:D

[hawker man]

You can have -50 engines and blended winglets on a 800b.
Hawker Beechcraft are offering this as XPR Mod.
But -50 engine not available without T/R as far as i know.

[ra4000]

First of all thank you to the British. for build such a sweet plane.
the 900xp is great,i have 1500hr.
but if you want buy a plane with more range more baggage area,more seat
buy the Hawker 1000,best midsize ever build.
you will have an extra 1400 lbs of jet fuel (i think is nice),you will have an extra 3 ft in lenth,the 3 ft are the baggage area, and go up to fl 430.
and the FADEC.
and you will save around 9 mil.
i have 2500hr on the 1000,belive me,no other plane out there like
the Hawker 1000

[Crosswind Limits]

Non-Hawker pilot here.

If the Hawker 1000 was such a good plane (and I've heard others say the same), why did they stop production? Does it not have an external baggage hold which is the Hawker 800 series Achilles heel?

[ra4000]

well there 2 stories
1)when the hawker 1000 came out was 11 mil. and the 800 was 8 mil,so potential buyers they didn't see the advantange for 3 extra mil.
story 2) is the hawker sold 26 hakwer 1000 to net jet at below market price
to introduce the 1000 to the market,and the price was a secret.
when potential buyers find out everybody want at the netjet price.
so the hakwer stoped make the 1000 and came out with the 800xp
that basic is the 800 with the 1000 wings and less expensive than 1000.

[hawker man]

The Hawker 1000 was still in production when the 800xp was introduced and marketed as two seperate Aircraft.
Customers did not see the advantages of the 1000 until Raytheon decided to stop production of the 1000. When Raytheon decided to move the Hawker assembly line from Chester to Whichita customers started to show an intrest in the 1000, so much so that they where going to start production again for another 12 months and delay the move of the assemly line but decided against it in the end.
Over the last few years they have talked about starting production of the 1000 a few times due to the amount of enquiries they have had from customers.
I think the reason they never did start production again was they thought the Hawker 4000 would fill the gap.
Bae/Raytheon missed a trick with 1000 if they'd put an all moving tail and got rid of the TKS system plus a few other changes they would of sold a lot more and would still be making them now instead of the 900xp.
For your information they produced 52 Hawker 1000, 2 of which where modified 800's.

[formulaben]

^ great info! :ok:

[hawker750]

800XPR

Thanks for that Hawker Man. Will look into it because the -5 MSP costs are becoming huge so at the next CZI perhaps that is the answer. The performance must be fantastic.

[hawker man]

Hawker Beechcraft Services Announces Inaugural Hawker 800XPR Upgrade Customer at NBAA
Denmark charter operator JoinJet to market as greenest 800XP in the world
ATLANTA (Oct. 19, 2010) – Hawker Beechcraft Services (HBS) today announced JoinJet of Denmark as the inaugural customer for the Hawker 800XPR upgrade during a ceremony at the company’s Global Customer Support booth at the National Business Aviation Association’s (NBAA) 63rd Annual Meeting & Convention in Atlanta. JoinJet is the charter division of the airline SUN-AIR of Scandinavia A/S. JoinJet’s fleet is state-of-the-art within its class and provides charter services around the world.
"We are pleased to announce JoinJet as our launch customer and are confident the Hawker 800XPR upgrade will be an outstanding performer that will retain its value for years to come," said Christi Tannahill, Hawker Beechcraft vice president, Global Customer Support. "The installation of the high efficiency winglets and the -50R engines make good business sense and add lasting value."
"We are eager to be the first owner and operator to upgrade our Hawker 800XP aircraft to the XPR program," said Kristoffer Sundberg, General Manager of JoinJet. "The enhanced reliability and lower operating costs will benefit our charter service customers. We’ve been very pleased with the Hawker Beechcraft products and recently acquired another Hawker 800XP. This latest addition to our fleet will be receiving the XPR upgrade. We look forward to marketing it as the greenest 800XP in the world with its low CO2 footprint."
The Hawker 800XPR offers significant improvements over the performance and capability of the 800XP, the industry’s best-selling midsize jet. Genuine Hawker winglets and more powerful, state-of-the-art Honeywell TFE-731-50R turbofan engines give the 800XPR greater range, better time to climb and faster cruise speeds. In addition, optional avionics, a newly stylized interior and XPR customer paint designs are
- More - Hawker Beechcraft Services Announces Inaugural Hawker 800XPR Upgrade Customer at NBAA – Page 2
available. The upgrade is available exclusively through HBS, the company’s factory-owned service center network. JoinJet’s upgrade will be completed at the company’s facility in Chester, United Kingdom (EGNR).

After a bit of thought you might not be able to convert an old 800 without modifing the wings ie. remove wing fence and fit vortilon and modify the ailerons but you can soon ask if it's possible.

[castrofly]

please, can somedoby tell me if the hawker 800xp and the hawker 900xp is the same type rating?
:rolleyes:

[Ready2Fly]

Hi castrofly,

the way i understand this document (http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/experts/docs/oeb-general/List_of_Aeroplanes_--_Class_and_Type_Ratings_and_Endorsement_List-13012014.pdf) is, that both are on the licence endorsement HS125 and you need a differential training between them.

[maxphlyer]

Exactly! :ok:

[M-ONGO]

all the competitors are unable to go full-fuel-full-pax. CL 300, G200, G250, Sovereign- all the same.

If you are thinking of buying a new aircraft and money is not the issue, I would think of a Hawker 4000. Full-pax-full-fuel, and the luggage problem of the HS125 definetly solved. But don't buy one of the first serial numbers. And make sure that the new, redesigned toilet is available.

How can you compare a Hawker to a CL300, G200, G280? They are in different leagues, speed, range, cabin, hold, costs... Oh and possibly now product support.

[TBM-Legend]

We are looking at Hawker 900XP late production machine. Interested in pros/cons and reliability. Is the de-ice system a major issue eg...

[redsnail]

TBM, I've been flying the Hawker around Europe and Russia for about 9 years now. It's a tough reliable machine. It'll suit Australia nicely.

The TKS is not the worlds best system but it does work. Use the stuff intelligently and in accordance with the AFM etc, you'll be fine and you shouldn't run out. ;)
Where people go wrong with the stuff is not priming it for weeks on end and wondering why the seals etc let go. Also, some folks get super nervous and use it at the hint of a cloud and wonder why the stuff runs out... :hmm:

If you're going to be operating remotely, carry 2 x 5 litres of TKS 80 (ok for carriage in the cabin) and you're good.

[vodka_gorbachev]

Where people go wrong with the stuff is not priming it for weeks on end and wondering why the seals etc let go. Also, some folks get super nervous and use it at the hint of a cloud and wonder why the stuff runs out... :hmm:
I will sign under each sentence.
You should prime system at least once per week during summer for aprox. 5 minutes. We never have any problems with our TKS system on 6 years old airframe.
And yes, wrong understanding of environment weather leads to TKS runs out very vastly as stated above.