BA ground service failure - again

[Final 3 Greens]

Just had a couple of pleasant Club World sectors to/from the middle east.

Had to choose BA, because of schedule considerations.

Crew on board delivered a good service both ways, pleasantly.

However, the ground circus continues, despite a nearly 3 hour connection, my suitcase didn't make the outbound flight.

Apparently the company knew this and had transmitted a message to destination, who sat on their hands - what a shame I had to wait by the carousel for 30 mins, before going to luggage desk - cr*ppy service for someone who has just paid quite a lot for the privilege.

I was then issued with an allegedly pre-paid credit card, which was declined by three shops and a cash machine.

The duty manager promised me it would work when I got to London - ha ha, good joke.

Whilst I always seem to have a decent experience in the air, it is high time BA realised that the journey is end to end.

The ground part is an ongoing disaster from my perspective, something goes wrong every trip.

At least they only charged me once for this ticket, mind you I did decide to book via Expedia as I have lost confidence in BA after the last wheeze, when the company billed me £12K for a £4K ticket and maxed out my credit card half way through a trip - thanks guys.

And before Rusland and some others start talking about 'BA bashing', please note I am just recounting facts.

[lowcostdolly]

F3G a query here from somebody who won't fly BA because of how unreliable they are on, it seems, every front at present :eek:

Why do you continue to use them :confused:

You quote schedule considerations here but the middle east is well served by numerous high profile carriers who provide a good on board product. I'm sure you would be able to get an acceptable (maybe not ideal) schedule from one of them. If I had as many problems as you I would take the acceptable from another carrier for my own sanity.

This is a genuine, and I believe valid query, from someone who has seen you complain about BA on numerous occasions in the year I've been on PPrune. I'm not accusing you of BA bashing.

Why don't you just vote with your feet and go elsewhere?

[Capetonian]

I am also rabidly anti-BA because of their unreliability and their attitude towards customers. I have managed to avoid flying them for about 8 years, until last month when I had no choice, they happened to be the only non-stop carrier on the route I needed, it made sense to fly out of LHR and the time suited me. In realistic terms there was no choice which would not have inconvenienced me.

T5 was fantastic. Service on board was abysmal, they were professionally cold but they got me there safely and on time. I walked off the 'plane feeling that there is no reason to fly them again and that they could not care less. The cabin crew weren't even looking at people, let alone saying goodbye, as they deplaned.

[Llademos]

OK ...

Firstly, the plural of 'Anecdote' is not 'Data'; what you have experienced cannot be used to make a case for or against a particular airline. The monthly surveys - which are data - clearly shows BA at or close to most other full service airlines.

As a BA staff member I am always sad to read of a failure somewhere along the line for an individual. But this needs to be tempered with a sense of proportion. on a typical day, 85,000 people fly with BA. If we get it right 99.9 percent of the time, then eighty people per day will consider that BA is abysmal, unfeeling, whatever the adjective of the day is. That adds up to nearly thirty thousand per year. Sounds a lot, but is only 0.01% of the total.

I have found that BA can be genuinly baffling in its customer service but mostly shows it's pedigree as a national airline. I and a number of others, plus many staff working overtime, spent my evening on Monday as a volunteer in T5 rebooking people who had missed their connection because of the volcanic ash - note, not BA or anyone else's fault. Anyone who had to wait the night for a flight was given, without fuss, a hotel for the night, with food. Most people were genuinely understanding even after a five hour queue to rebook, of the situation (the one person who had a hissy fit had come in on Virgin and missed her connection on BA - our fault, apparently, and a hotel wasn't good enough). Did we do everything right? No, but we did our best, and a lot of us did so without any renumeration, and will do it again the nxt time the elements, or baggage system, or a minority of the cabin crew cause disruption.

May I suggest the next time something happens (and the data suggest you'd be unlucky to have a 'next time' incident) you ask the CSD for a survey form. Then you really will have influence on what happens and how BA shapes its customer service.

Ll

[Final 3 Greens]

Hi LCD

Fair question.

As a very frequent traveller, sometimes schedule considerations drive the routing. In my business, 2 hours can be worth £750 billing.

My main ME market is served from London, with a national airline and one other UK airline flying there - BA's schedule is perfect. The others delay me by 5-12 hours.

And to tell the truth, the BA service in long haul J class is reliable and always acceptable or better, even if the product shows cost cutting.

If only the ground was sorted, they would be an airline of choice for me, rather than an 'if needs must' choice.

[Final 3 Greens]

Llademos

Firstly, the plural of 'Anecdote' is not 'Data'; what you have experienced cannot be used to make a case for or against a particular airline. The monthly surveys - which are data - clearly shows BA at or close to most other full service airlines.

This quotation demonstrates completely the complacence that makes BA ground service appalling.

I am a very frequent traveller and EVERY TIME I have flown BA in the past year, something has gone wrong involving the ground service.

To quote data is a totally amazing for an airline employee towards someone who spends a lot of money in premium cabins.

I really don't give a :mad: about what the data says, as a premium traveller I expect better service from the ground staff.

Asking someone to fill out a form is laughable, when I have done that I get a standard reply that fills me with no confidence whatsoever.

Others on this forum have made similar comments.

You will note that I have been very fair in my comments on the BA airborne experience, throughout the last year.

But your company is incompetent on the ground and no amount of stats will change that.

LOOK AT YOUR COMPANY FINANCIALS!

Then look at Emirates recent results and weep.

Also, look at Ryanair's.

Your company is neither one nor the other and therefore delivers neither, which is why it is in the mess it is in.

[13Alpha]

I've flown 229 sectors with BA over the last 5 years and have had gold and silver Exec club cards for the last 3 years. During that time I've also flown around 80 sectors with other airlines.

That there are BA staff who go above and beyond the call of duty to resolve problems is undeniable - I have seen it myself many times, and experienced it myself here on PPRUNE. And I don't doubt that at present as a result of the cabin crew strike and the ash disruption there are even more staff doing this than ever before.

That the BA service on board, on a good day, can match any other carrier in the world is also beyond question.

But I'm afraid F3G is absolutely correct about the service _on the ground_ provided by BA (and its agents) not being up to standard.

Having had my luggage go to Madrid while I was flying from Gatwick to Edinburgh and been left in the inexpert hands of BA's ground handlers at Edinburgh I fully sympathise with F3G in his predicament.

What BA frequent fliers are looking for, frankly, isn't that the company goes out of its way to resolve problems when they arise - that's taken as read. It's that the problems don't arise in the first place. And that applies from the moment we buy our ticket until the moment we retrieve our luggage from the carousel.

For all easyJet may be low cost, they've never left my luggage behind, nor has their website ever failed to send me a receipt when I bought a ticket. They may well be crAp at dealing with complaints - but I don't know: because they've never given me cause to complain.

13Alpha

[Capetonian]

They (easyJet) may well be crAp at dealing with complaints - but I don't know: because they've never given me cause to complain.

On 16th April my EZY flight was cancelled due to the ash. I received an email advising me of this and a link to the refund application. The refund came through about 2 weeks later. I was impressed.

[Final 3 Greens]

What BA frequent fliers are looking for, frankly, isn't that the company goes out of its way to resolve problems when they arise - that's taken as read. It's that the problems don't arise in the first place. And that applies from the moment we buy our ticket until the moment we retrieve our luggage from the carousel.

Elegant summary, 13 Alpha.

[radeng]

When I complained after the first strike about not getting what I'd paid for, I had a 'brush off ' letter and an MCO for £30. Having come to Pprune and got advice, I wrote again on April 20th. I haven't heard anything but I got £120 credit on my credit card........

No, you Ppruners who did advise, thankyou, but I'm not sharing!

But I went to the US last week. Everything superb, on the ground and in the air. Even American got my bags off early from the internal connecting flight at the far end.

[Egerton Flyer]

Llademos.
I have found that BA can be genuinly baffling in its customer service but mostly shows it's pedigree as a national airline.

The last time I looked BA was no longer a national airline, not in the UK anyway.:confused:

E.F.

[Pohutu]

*Pedant Alert*

From thefreedictionary.com:

ped·i·gree
a. A line of ancestors; a lineage. (my bold)
b. A list of ancestors; a family tree.

And (with thanks to PAXboy, from whom I have shamelessly copied this BA history)...

BOAC commercial
BOAC + BEA merged
British Airways nationalised
British (branded)
British Airways de-nationalised
BA plc*Pedant Alert off*

[10bob]

The monthly surveys - which are data - clearly shows BA at or close to most other full service airlines.

But which surveys?

I am a BA supporter (gold card holder) but as F3G says, they do *sometimes* let themselves down. However, I am only ever "selected" to fill out customer satisfaction surveys by cabin crew who have been very attentive and provided great service . Of course, they end up with glowing feedback.

I am never asked to complete a survey by grumpy crew, or on sectors when I haven't had my choice of meal, or when there has been problems with IFE, or when my baggage did not make it with me to the destination. If this is repeated elsewhere, no wonder the 'data' is so good.

[Capetonian]

I am never asked to complete a survey by grumpy crew, or on sectors when I haven't had my choice of meal, or when there has been problems with IFE

When this happens to me, not just on BA, but generally, I ask for a survey form. They always seem surprised, and if they can't or won't give me a survey from as such they invariably have some kind of form for registering complaints.

[radeng]

Pohutu,

wasn't there a British Airways which went into Imperial Airlines in the dizzy days long before WW2? And then BOAC and BEA inherited the mantle.....

[PAXboy]

radeng, it was I who made that list and happy for it to be copied. However, I had prefaced that list with, "Post War only" that was to simplify matters. Technically, the company dates from 1929, which is why it is classed (by some of us) as an old company. Some folks think it is 'young' from it's time of being a modern plc, but it still has many folks from earlier incarnations and those aspects have been discussed in various threads.

[renfrew]

Technically British Airways traces it's roots back to 1919.

[WHBM]

Technically British Airways traces it's roots back to 1919.
This is the correct version. A range of independents started up in 1919 and were merged together in 1924 to Imperial Airways, which became the mainstream UK carrier, with some government support. A further range of independents were merged together in 1935 and took the British Airways name, an independent and unsubsidised operator on lesser routes, which became the second largest UK airline. In 1940 these two were merged into BOAC at government behest, but the registered BA name was kept by the company unused. BOAC was split up after WW2 into BEA and BOAC, two nationalised companies and then in 1974 these were merged back together again and the BA name was reinstated for the combined operation. It didn't become privately owned until 1987.

[PAXboy]

[continuing thread diversion]
Thanks for the time-line WHBM. I fear that the sequence of mergers and acquisitions has not helped. The list of small carriers that have been swallowed must be enormous and doubtless someone in the History or AAR forums could list them. But that is what happens in old companies - they lose their focus.

[radeng]

I believe that originally, before Croydon was London's airport, the airport was at Hounslow. So going to Heathrow was another full circle!

[PAXboy]

CCC I do not know F3G but I have read these forums for several years and the OP [Original Poster, of the thread] has been asked that question before and has answered it clearly and concisely.

In fact, they did so in this very thread. Since you must have read all of this thread (only #20 posts before your own) then you would have seen the answer in #5??? Further, the OP gives their support for the BA service in the air.

Personally, I would refrain from stating 'OCD?' in a thread about someone I have never met. One aspect of Netiquette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette) is to play the ball and not the player.

[ExXB]

In other threads running in SLF I've seen comments on how well BA is dealing with their strike situation. As a former Gold, now Silver and almost Blue ex-frequent BA flyer I beg to differ.

I won't bore you with all the details of a take-it-or-leave-it rerouting from Monday to Sunday, losing a day of my hard earned holidays because of the cancellation of my LHR-GVA connecting flight (the long-haul flight into Heathrow was operating) - no other seats available on that day, wouldn't put me on Swiss either.

So rebooked for Sunday and even checked in for both flights. Got a SMS a couple of hours later - Sunday's LHR-GVA now cancelled. After 40 mins on hold got rebooked on following flight. So 4 hours at LHR, rather than 1hr15.

No, YATGF by BA (Yet Another Typical Ground Failure).

The good news - all my BA miles are now burned. By By BA.

[radeng]

I had a flight from LHR to Nice yesterday. Walked on to the 'plane, to be greeted by name by the purser who recognised me from a number of previous flights with her. Flight went well, the special meal wasn't there BUT the meal was close enough anyway. No complaints about the crew, but I didn't think much of the two suits who talked all the way through th safety briefing, paying no attention at all. Champagne in plenty.....benefits of Club Class! My 17th sector on BA this year, and except for one trip during the last strike, no problems. Even that ended up with £100+ refund. Every time, I had far better service than I had on BMI/Lufthansa, American Airlines or even on Turkish, although they were better than the other two.

[Final 3 Greens]

Radeng

I agree that the airborne service is good.

But to give you an example of the ground fiasco, I decided to go to T5 customer service yesterday, as I had to go to LHR and had plenty of time to spare.

To cut a long story short, I ended up taking an earful (not unpleasantly or unprofessionally) from a long service agent who knew exactly what needed to be done to sort out my latest problem, but no longer had the authority to do it.

So I have to write a letter to a faceless contact centre, in the hope that they will resolve the matter.

The agent did empathise that this was further punishment on top of the initial failure to get the case there and then to issue a duff payment card and did express frustration at not being allowed to resolve the matter.

That, in a nutshell, sums up my problem with British Airways.

BASSA is making Walsh and the board look very good by stupidity and incompetence, whereas I suspect that they really do not understand the value proposition for self fundingh premium pax and are a bunch of donkeys.

[sirwa69]

OK credentials first, in the last 5 years I have flown 98 sectors with BA, 33 of which have been in First or Club.

In the same time I have flown 446 sectors with other carriers mainly Middle Eastern ones.

I have had more good flights with BA than bad ones that's for sure, however BA has a fundamental problem with it's cabin crew.
Their too old!

Middle Eastern and Asian airlines have a much bigger turnover of CC because they are generally not seen as life careers or jobs for life. They also generally employ young pretty girls who are on the whole happy to have the job and keen to provide good customer service. These girls tend to leave before they are too jaded, replaced by a fresh batch. (No double meanings meant here)

BA's CC are, on the whole, over the hill. I don't mean that in a safety or even fitness way, but definitely in terms of their eagerness to serve.

Many of them look upon the passengers with disdain and treat the job as a way to pay the mortgage while still being able to traipse around the world.

BA needs to find a way to drastically reduce the average age of their CC, not only will that mean younger and more eager to please CC but with the major reduction in seniority would also greatly reduce the wage bill.

Unfortunately this would exacerbate the ground service problem which started this thread as BA would need to offer these dinosaurs ground jobs if they took them off flying :ugh:

[flash8]

BA needs to find a way to drastically reduce the average age of their CC, not only will that mean younger and more eager to please CC but with the major reduction in seniority would also greatly reduce the wage bill.

Perhaps we could extend that to every industry? Lets kick out all the Senior Managers (Jaded, old, set in their ways) and replace them with much cheaper "fresh" Junior Managers, eager to please etc etc

I personally find the service from older Cabin Crew to be more courteous and respect flows both ways a lot easier. They are also on the whole somewhat more professional. You ain't seen those youngsters downroute after a few beers... it is NOT a pretty sight.

[radeng]

>Many of them look upon the passengers with disdain and treat the job as a way to pay the mortgage while still being able to traipse around the world.<

Definitely not my experience. 18 flights on BA so far this year, and another 18 expected as a minimum. 2 on Lufthansa/BMI, 3 on Turkish, 2 on American, and only Turkish gets near BA for service.

[Skipness One Echo]

99% of the time cabin crew are catering and hospitality. That really is a job for the young. If you want more money responsility and skills there are options which alas don't involve sunning yourself in a foreign clime.