Converting ICAO Licence to SA Licence

[S.E.A.L.11]

Gidday...:ok:

I Have a question about the process of converting my ICAO Licence (New Zealand CPL) over to a Licence that I can use in South Africa. I have read over this thread http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/403754-flying-sa-reg-aircraft-commerically-icao-licence.html however the info doesn't apply entirely to me. Most other posts are about converting from SA to something else.

Here is what I need to know:
I have a NZ CPL with NZ Citizenship, however I also have SA Citizenship...so...what is the best route for me to go? NZ CPL validation (what are the limitations of this?) or full conversion?

Ive read the bit on the SACAA website about the validation but can't find anything on the full conversion. What is the process? Fees? Requirements? etc etc....

If I were to move back to SA and fly in excess of 18 months what would be my recommended course of action? :confused:

Cheers for the help in advance, something I couldn't get from the SACAA. :ugh:

~S.E.A.L.11~ :cool:

[pookie1]

You can get a validation by writing the Airlaw and Procedures and doing a flight test. Your validation will be valid for a year and you will be granted one year renewal of the validation.

The idea is to allow you to work for the two years and gives you that time to write all of the exams. It might be possible to waive some of the exams based on your experience but you would have to discuss that with them directly.

[Der absolute Hammer]

I 'think' but oh so slowly that:

If you get a validation then it will only be valid as long as the licence used to acquire the validation is valid and will only allow you to exercise the ratings or whatever that are endorsed ont hat specific licence. I don't think that you can get a validation and then put an SA aircraft on to it.
pookie possibly knows best but if your foreign licence expires is your validation still valid? I don't know.
But I do happen to know that there was a Kiwi at FAGC training with FTS a few weeks ago and he was just about to do his flight check with a DFE . RR to those who know him. Perhaps a note to them, marked CFI attention might get you some real up to date info as to the practicalities involved. The CFI is a lekker oke.

[pookie1]

Der absolute Hammer is quite correct on both points - you cannot add aircraft or ratings onto your license in SA once you have validated it and the validity does depend on your foreign license (and medical of course) being valid.

[lilflyboy262]

NZ licences are a lifetime licence, provided that you keep your medical up to date, and do a check ride every 2 years with a instructor. They do not have expiry dates on them.
Better to go somewhere else in africa though! Jobs are tight in SA at the moment...

[S.E.A.L.11]

Thanks for the info so far guys. :ok:

So a validation would only be practical for a limited time...so...what is involved with doing a full conversion so I basically hold a SA Licence? Seems a little complicated for an ICAO state...if only I was doing this the other way around, it would be a whole lot easier! :uhoh:

Cheers!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Back to square one I think.

You would need to wrote to the Commissioner for Civil Aviation sending him certified copies of your licence, SA passpart or ID, log book entries and-very improtant-log book summary-all certified all signed out properly. You would have to write a letter of explanation as to why you deserved an exemption from the written examinations save only Air Law and Procedures which you would have to write no matter what.
Expect to wait about a year to get an answer? Well, mine took eighteen months for something fairly similar by the time all the too and fro was over.
Alternatives....
Telephone one of the flight inspectors direct or the commissioner and beg his indulgence of information.
Flip over here and go to CAA but you are going to need the certified process anyway so the money spend on the telephone bill might be m ore worth while.

Note that an SA rating eg IR is not valid for ever and that if you let it lapse for five years from the date of its expiry, you may have to write all teh subjects again. I suggest that you make sure you can use an SA licence before you bother with it.
You do not make mention of your experience but in any event, would you not be better to get a NZ ATPL and then hit SA for that equivalent. If you have an SA Com you may find it job limiting and if they do give you an SA Com for a NZ Com the CAA SA will I am sure expect you to write their ATP subjects before they let you have an SA ATP.

[big buddah]

SEAL 11

Think very hard before going down this road! It is expensive and time consuming and everyone you talk to will give you a different story! DE's (Flight examiners) and the SA CAA.
If you just won't to go to Africa and fly, I presume you have low hours then look at doing Bot's, Namibia etc?
Lots of crews fly on validation on ZS rego outside of SA on aircraft that they have on their licence C208, 200, 1900 etc you can't put ratings on to a validation it must be on your home licence.



Recognition, validation and conversion of foreign pilot licences and
ratings
61.01.14 (1) The Commissioner may recognise, through temporary valida-
tion or permanent conversion, and on the conditions prescribed in this Part, pilot
licences and ratings issued by an appropriate authority of a Contracting State if
the standard of such foreign licence or rating is deemed to be equivalent to, or
higher than, the South African licence or rating.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of sub-regulation (1), licences and rat-
ings issued by a foreign authority to a South African citizen do not qualify for the
conversion to a South African licence or rating, except if such licence was issued to a South African citizen while holding permanent residence status in the coun-
try of issue if the applicant had, –
(a) lived in that particular country for at least five years after attaining the
age of 18 years; or
(b) was a minor born or living in the country of issue; or
(c) held a validation issued in terms of the Air Navigation Regulations of
1976 for an uninterrupted period of 3 years or more and had acquired
not less that 750 hours flight time in those three years prior to 1 January
2008.
(3) Where the country of issue is not a Contracting State or does not com-
ply with Annexes 1 and 6 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and
the relevant Articles thereof, then the foreign licence holder must undergo a
bridging training at the extent determined by the Commissioner on individual
cases and thereafter undergo further assessment of competence to ensure com-
patibility with the relevant South African licensing standards.
(4) Before the Commissioner validates or converts a foreign licence or rat-
ing for a commercial air transport operation or a Private Pilot Licence with In-
strument Rating (PPL/IR), he or she must confirm the validity of the foreign li-
cence or rating with the appropriate authority of the issuing Contracting State.
(5) Notwithstanding the provisions of sub-regulations (1) and (2), any ap-
plicant for the validation of a foreign licence or rating must undergo the appro-
priate skills test and –
(a) in the case of validation for use as a private pilot under VFR conditions
(PPL/VFR) have attended a tutorial, conducted by at least a Grade III
flight instructor at an approved Part 141 aviation training organisation on
the differences in airspaces and terminology within South Africa as well
as received a briefing on performance planning, taking into account the
effect of density altitude, and write a South African Civil Aviation Author-
ity approved examination in South African Air Law conducted by an ap-
proved Part 141 aviation training organisation; or
(b) in the case of validation for use as a private pilot under IFR conditions
(PPL/IFR), have attended a tutorial, conducted by at least a Grade II
flight instructor at an approved Part 141 aviation training organisation on
the differences in airspaces and terminology within South Africa, as well
as received a briefing on performance planning taking into account the
effect of density altitude, and pass an examination on South African Air
Law and Procedures at an approved South African Civil Aviation Exami-
nation Centre; or
(c) in the case of validation for use as a commercial pilot under VFR condi-
tions (CPL/VFR), passed an examination in South African Air Law at Com-
mercial Pilot Licence (CPL) level at an approved South African Civil
Aviation Examination Centre; or
(d) in the case of validation for use as a commercial pilot under IFR condi-
tions (CPL/IFR) or as an airline transport pilot, passed an examination in
South African Air Law and Procedures at an approved South African
Civil Aviation Examination Centre; and
(e) shall, irrespective of the revalidation requirements in the country of is-
sue, comply with the revalidation requirements of Subpart 13 in respect
of the privileges to be granted by the licence or rating.
(f) The Certificate of Validation for a Private Pilot Licence is valid for a pe-
riod of 60 months from date of successful completion of the applicable
skills test, provided that a valid medical certificate is held. The privilege
of the validation may only be exercised if the holder has a valid medical
certificate and complies with the recency requirements of Subpart 61.03
or 61.04, the revalidation requirements of the licence held, and the re-
validation requirements of Subpart 13 for class and type ratings. In the
event of the holder of a validation not exercising the privileges of the
validation within the 60 months, the holder shall meet with the require-
ments for initial validation. All PPL(VFR) validations issued in terms of the
Air Navigation Regulations of 1976 shall enjoy the privileges of regula-
tion 61.01.14.
(6) Notwithstanding the provisions of sub-regulation 61.01.14(20), a Certifi-
cate of Validation of a foreign licence for commercial purposes may only be is-
sued for a particular purpose. The validation expiry date shall coincide with the
date of expiry of the medical certificate of the applicant but shall not exceed a
period of twelve months. If the medical certificate expires within the initial
12 month period, then the validation may be revalidated for a further period not
exceeding 12 months from original date of issue of the certificate of validation.
Under exceptional circumstances, the Commissioner may extend the period of
validation by one further period of 12 months.
(7) In the case of validated foreign pilots flying South African registered
aircraft in a foreign country, a certificate of validation for commercial purposes
may be re-issued annually, provided that the operation is flown exclusively out-
side the borders of South Africa and that any flying carried out in South Africa is
for the purpose of a ferry flight for pre- or post-maintenance purposes or for the
purpose of a revalidation check.
(8) The purposes for which a Certificate of Validation may be issued in-
clude any or a combination of the following –
(a) to exercise the privileges of a private pilot in a South African registered
aircraft;
(b) to ferry a South African registered aircraft from one foreign country to
another, or from a foreign country to South Africa;
(c) to conduct demonstration flights in South African registered aircraft;
(d) to conduct familiarisation, difference training or route training of South
African flight crew;
(e) to provide its holder with time to complete prescribed bridging training
for the conversion of the foreign licence or rating while acting as a flight
crew member on a South African registered aircraft during commercial
operations; and
(f) in terms of a dry- or wet-lease agreement in terms of Part 48.
(9) Except when issued for the purpose, referred to in paragraphs (e) and
(f) of sub-regulation (8), and except by written permission of the Commissioner
for the purposes of route training, the privileges of a validated foreign licence
may not be exercised for commercial air transport operations.
(10) A South African licence, issued wholly or in part on the strength of a
foreign licence, must indicate the Contracting State that issued the licence upon
which the conversion was based.
(11) For the issuing of a South African pilot licence or rating, the Commis-
sioner may not recognise foreign examination credits in isolation; i.e. for a con-
version the applicant must be the holder of the appropriate valid licence or rat-
ing. If such is not the case, the applicant must pass all the relevant South African
examinations.
(12) A foreign licence, if qualifying for the issue of a Certificate of Valida-
tion in terms of these Regulations, or for which a Certificate of Validation has
been issued, may be accepted as the entry requirement for the issue of a higher
South African pilot licence.
Validation of a foreign pilot licence and ratings
(13) The application for a Certificate of Validation of a pilot licence or rating
issued by the appropriate authority of a Contracting State should be made to the
Commissioner on the appropriate form as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-
FCL 61.
(14) The Commissioner may validate a pilot licence and ratings issued by
an appropriate authority of a Contracting State –
(a) subject to the same restrictions which apply to such foreign pilot licence
and ratings;
(b) subject to such conditions and limitations as the Commissioner may
deem necessary in the interest of aviation safety;
(c) in accordance with, and subject to, the requirements and conditions as
prescribed in these Regulations;
(d) on condition that the privileges may not exceed that of the South African
pilot licence or rating.
(15) The application for a Certificate of Validation must be accompanied
by –
(a) the appropriate fee as prescribed in Part 187;
(b) a certified true copy of the pilot licence and ratings for which the valida-
tion is requested;
(c) a certified true copy of a valid foreign or local medical certificate;
(d) a summary of the applicant’s logbook, certified by the applicant to be a
true reflection of the hours flown;
(e) show English language proficiency compliance in terms of regula-
tion 61.01.7; and
(f) any other document prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL 61.
(16) The minimum knowledge, experience and skill requirements for the
issuing of a Certificate of Validation for the various pilot licences and ratings are
those prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL 61 for the equivalent South African
licences or ratings.
(17) Where a practical flight test is required, such test must be undertaken
in an aircraft of the category, class or type, appropriate to the pilot licence for
which a Certificate of Validation is sought, or in a flight simulation training device
approved for the purpose.
(18) The holder of a Certificate of Validation, issued by the Commissioner,
must comply with all the applicable provisions of these Regulations.
(19) Before the privileges of an additional rating may be exercised in terms
of the Certificate of Validation, such additional privileges must have been en-
dorsed on the foreign pilot licence by the appropriate foreign authority.
(20) The period of validity of a Certificate of Validation issued in terms of a
lease agreement in terms of Part 48, shall be the duration of the lease agree-
ment.
(21) A Certificate of Validation shall become invalid as soon as the corres-
ponding foreign licence or rating/s has or have been suspended or revoked by
the issuing authority.
(22) A Certificate of Validation for commercial purposes may only be re-
issued once, at the discretion of the Commissioner and only in exceptional
cases, on condition that the applicant provides sufficient proof that he or she has
complied with all requirements of the country of issue of the foreign licence or
rating in respect of maintenance of competency.
(23) In order to meet short-term operational requirements, the Commis-
sioner may, in exceptional cases, exempt the applicant from all or some of the
requirements of this Part, subject to conditions set by him or her in each particu-
lar case.
Conversion of a foreign pilot licence and ratings
(24) The holder of a current South African validation issued in terms of the
Air Navigation Regulations of 1976 may apply for the conversion of his or her
licence, without having to meet the theoretical knowledge or practical skills tests
requirements of Part 61 provided that;
(a) the validation had, prior to 1 January 2008, been held for a uninterrupted
period of 3 years or more; and

(b) has acquired not less that 750 hours flight time in the three years re-
ferred to in paragraph (a) above.
(25) The application for the issuing of a South African pilot licence or any
rating on the strength of a foreign pilot licence or rating must be made to the
Commissioner in the form set out in Document SA-CATS-FCL 61 and the appli-
cant must meet all the requirements laid down in sub-regulation (26)
(26) Notwithstanding sub-regulations 61.1.14 (24) and (25), an applicant
applying for the conversion of his foreign pilot licence must attach to his applica-
tion the following documentation –
(a) a letter of motivation for conversion of the licence;
(b) an up-to-date Curriculum Vitae;
(c) a certified copy of the pages of his or her logbook containing –
(i) the last 12 months’ summary;
(ii) endorsements of all class or type ratings;
(iii) endorsements of the last revalidation of his or her licence, class or
type and instrument flight ratings;
(d) a certified copy of his or her licence; and
(e) a valid South African medical certificate, as applicable.
(27) All new applicants for the conversion of a licence shall be required to
pass the South African Civil Aviation Authority theoretical examination as pre-
scribed below –
(a) Private Pilot Licence (PPL/VFR) –
(i) Air Law.
(ii) Meteorology.
(iii) Flight Performance and Planning.
(b) Private Pilot Licence with Instrument Rating –
(i) Air Law and Procedures.
(ii) Meteorology.
(iii) Flight Performance and Planning.
(c) Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL/VFR) –
(i) Air Law.
(ii) Meteorology.
(iii) Flight Performance and Planning.
(d) Commercial Pilot Licence with Instrument Rating (CPL/IR) –
(i) Air Law and Procedures.
(ii) Meteorology.
(iii) Flight Performance and Planning.
(e) Airline Transport Pilot Licence –
(i) Air Law and Procedures.
(ii) Meteorology.
(iii) Flight Performance and Planning.
Training for the conversion of a licence, rating or validation
(28) The applicant shall be required to attend training at an approved
Part 141 aviation training organisation and receive tuition at the discretion of the
Chief Flying Instructor (CFI) with respect to differences in South African air-
spaces, flight performance and planning and typical Southern Africa weather
patterns. The CFI shall issue a letter of recommendation to the applicant to gain
entry to the South African Civil Aviation Authority (the Authority) on-line exami-
nations.
Skills tests for the conversion of a licence, rating or validation
(29) The applicant for the conversion of a licence shall be required to un-
dergo a skills test which must be conducted by a Designated Flight Examiner as
shown below –
(a) Private Pilot Licence (PPL/VFR)–skills test as for an initial issue;
(b) Private Pilot Licence with Instrument Rating (PPL/IR)–skills test for revali-
dation of an instrument rating;
(c) Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL/VFR)–skills test as for an initial issue;
(d) Commercial Pilot Licence with Instrument Rating (CPL/IR)–skills test for
revalidation of an instrument rating;
(e) Airline Transport Pilot Licence–skills test for revalidation of an instru-
ment rating.
Conversion of foreign instructor rating
(30) A foreign flight instructor rating may be converted on compliance with
sub-regulations 61.16.3(1), (3) and (4).
Requirements for issuing, validity, privileges and limitations
(31) The requirements for the issuing, the validity, the privileges and limi-
tations of any South African pilot licence and ratings, issued on the basis of the
strength of a foreign licence, are those prescribed in these Regulations for the
issuing, the validity, the privileges and limitations of the equivalent South African
licence or rating.
(32) The Commissioner must ensure that a pilot licence or rating is issued
in such a manner that the validity thereof is readily determined.

[billteasdale]

After 1 year from your initial validation, you can keep renewing the validation, but cannot fly ZS aircraft within South African airspace. But, as for now, you can fly ZS aircraft operating outside of SA. Until it gets changed, the amount of time to do this is relatively unlimited. But if you want to fly in SA, you then need to jump through all the hoops to get a SA license.

[S.E.A.L.11]

I appreciate all the comments / tips on here about the process. :ok: A validation as it appears to me doesnt seem to be suitable as my intention is to fly ZS- aircraft within SA. I have SA citizenship aswell which helps.

BigBuddah, thanks for posting that info, I got it sent to me by Ms Moshane with some info and from what I read in her email it would appear as though the process is very similar to how DownThreeGreens has described it. I will however have approx 1000 hours when I make the move and will be looking to convert to CPL/IR.

BigBuddah, how expensive is expensive? :uhoh: Who did you go through (training organisation) to do it?

Der abosolute Hammer, FAGC would be ideal for me as the family is in the area. FTS would also be a good place as I have flown way back with the CFI as a pax for a joy flight (perhaps one of the reasons I got into flying in the first place, who knows :confused:). I will send them a email once I have heard some more info from the SACAA.

Hopefully the conversion will be relatively straightforward (as CAA's go :E) and not tooooo costly for the flying training part of it.

~S.E.A.L.11~ :cool:

[S.E.A.L.11]

Latest update,

Its apparently not too hard if you are a SA Citizen, as there appears to be an exemption for citizens that enables them to apply for a conversion outright without having to do the validation first. All that is required is a verification of the original ICAO licence, sit the theory tests and then do the flight test... Still havnt heard about the fees etc yet though...:ooh:

Now I gotta get in touch with FTS...

~SEAL~

[VAH]

Hi Guys
I just stumbled across this thread, looking for info about the same question.
was at the SA CAA last week and apparently validation and doing the full conversion are not that far apart..
my problem now is that the exams seem to have changed on the last year and no resources of question databanks is available
Does anybody have info on the new exams?
thanks!

[Zaheergoga]

Judging by all the threads on this and other websites i guess its safe to assume that this isnt going to be easy. by early next month i would have completed my JAA ATPL(frozen) here in portugal along with a multi engine rating and the MCC. i am a South African national ,and my question is how do i go about changing my license and keeping my ratings. I wish to return to south africa to build hours and hopefully(fingers crossed) land a job anywhere in the world.

I would really appreciate any feed back as i am completely lost,i feel like a deer in the headlights, so please guys provide me with some sort of guidance with regards to the process ,what exams need to be taken,fees, and some sort of question bank or data base to study from.

kind regards

Zaheer Goga