NTSB re Life Vests

[ChristiaanJ]

Yesterdays (May 4th) e-mail with press release from the NTSB.
"CREW ACTIONS AND SAFETY EQUIPMENT CREDITED WITH SAVING LIVES
IN US AIRWAYS 1549 HUDSON RIVER DITCHING, NTSB SAYS"

One comment struck my eye.
"....the Board noted that, since most of the passengers indicated that they had not paid attention to the preflight oral safety briefing, “more creative and effective methods of conveying safety information to passengers” was needed.
Survival factors investigators also found that passengers had significant problems in donning the life vests that were stowed under each seat."

Two questions to Cabin Crew from a lowly SLF.

* CAN safety information be conveyed more effectively to passengers, or is this a lost struggle ?

* My two cents worth... I've always wanted to try putting on a life vest: doing is far better than watching. Never got a chance to do so.
Why not have a "safety show" at some point during the flight, especially during boring long-haul, with a few dummy life vests available for interested pax to put on, and also dropping a couple of live oxygen masks, again for "hands-on experience?

CJ

PS I hesitated between the CC and SLF forums, but since this is really a CC matter, I thought it was best asked here.

[starbag]

* My two cents worth... I've always wanted to try putting on a life vest: doing is far better than watching. Never got a chance to do so.
Why not have a "safety show" at some point during the flight, especially during boring long-haul, with a few dummy life vests available for interested pax to put on, and also dropping a couple of live oxygen masks, again for "hands-on experience?


Why not simply ask the crew on your next flight to try on the life jacket from the safety demo? Oxygen masks cannot be dropped as only engineering can re stow them, and once one mask is pulled, all the masks (on 737/757/A320 for certain) will be activated in that row, rendering that row of seats unusable. But there certainly shouldn't be a problem having a closer look at one of the demonstration masks.

[gadgetman]

Whether it's a safety video or a live demo, once the novelty has worn off (the passengers have traveled by air more than twice), it's just a case of familiarity breeding contempt.
Liven it up, add some humor, or that cringeworthy Wayne Brady style rap version that's doing the youtube rounds, and the novelty of that will wear off after you've heard it a couple of times.
If crew were enterprising enough to come up with an original method of conveying the info each flight, you might get all pax paying attention each time, but by the time you're on you're ninth sector you'll be reduced to plagiarizing Monty Python (We are no longer the Knights who say Nee, we are the Knights who say "Open your seatbelts come this this way, jump and slide, no you can't have another rum and coke").

Scare tactics won't work, telling people they will die if they don't remember how to tie a neat double bow at their side with the life vest straps will cost the airline a stack, and again the novelty will wear off quickly.

Pop quizzes may be an option. Offer frequent flier miles to anyone who can tell the crew how many emergency exits there are or demonstrate how to put on a life jacket 3 hours after the demo. Alternatively, deny drink/meal service to anyone who can't do these. (No sir, the brace position is head between your OWN knees, no more single malt for you)

Personally I think all passengers should have to pass a short course before being allowed on an aircraft, licensing them on O2 masks, life jackets, door operation and how to refrain from pressing a call bell. Tips on how to travel light, understand timezones and pass efficiently through metal detectors would just be an added bonus for all.

Passenger licensing, you know it makes sense.

[Rwy in Sight]

Dear fellow contributors,

I asked once a cabin crew member to allow me to put on the demo flight jacket. She turn the requested to the senior FA of the flight and the answer was "No you will create a panic among passengers and you don't know anything about planes so don't annoy me".

So maybe the mentality of the crew might need some fine tuning as well along with licensing of the pax.

I know the above comments will not make me popular here but I still follow all safety demos and I treat all crew with utmost respect.

Rwy in Sight

[ChristiaanJ]

Two nice answers already..

Rwy in Sight,
""No you will create a panic among passengers and you don't know anything about planes so don't annoy me"
If it was made into a brief feature sometime during the flight, maybe that mentality could be changed.

gadgetman,
"Pop quizzes may be an option."
Good lateral thinking, that man...
Make it worth it to the pax listening to the safety briefing and knowing how to don a life vest, or where the emergency exits are.
Suddenly it's no longer just about being in a crash, it's about testing your wit and maybe gaining a prize. And somehow learning something in the process which will stick in your mind.
I can already see a "life-vest donning" competion.

Sorry all, I am NOT trying to be funny.
But as already said, vaying the format of the safety announcement as such only works for the newcomers, be it rap, or strip-tease.
Scare tactics don't work either.
Pop quizzes, maybe? Come on, there must be other ideas floating around.

As I said, make it worth it to the pax to listen and understand.

CJ

[MancRy]

It's a tough one. Sure, people fly alot more these days but even so, most passengers would hesitate and ultimately be unsure of their actions. Of course, just refreshing the information by watching the briefing can help.

Adding humour into the demo is a great idea and people have tried it. IMO it works. However, some passengers (admittedly a minority) do complain about this. Some would argue that crew aren't comedians and that only certain people can pull it off............there shouldn't be pressure on others who can't.

Also, you have to realise that many airlines do not like such behaviour during the demo. My airline is probably one of the carriers that many of you would think advocates such humour on the briefing due to it's fun and orange culture but in actual fact it's a big no no.

As for trying the lifejacket on, i would let you but I can also understand the "creating panic"/"causing a distraction issue". But to be fair, if you watch and listen to the instructions on the demo, there isn't any need to try one on. It's designed to be very simple.

[bondim]

Christiaan,

My experience tells me that NOTHING anyone can do will make the majority of people "watch and listen carefully". because air incidents, especially major ones, happen rarely, people (rightly) feel very safe travelling on aircraft, which leads to complacency...

The major difference in thinking about saftey between crew and pax, in my opinion, is that while safety is at the FOREFRONT of crew's mind, for most pax saftey is somewhere in the BACK of their mind ( and rightly so). They think about it once or twice when getting on a plane, then forget about it all, while we , as crew think about safety ALL of the time.

Happy flying!
B

[Rwy in Sight]

MancRy,

The airline mentioned had a very relaxed attitude towards both safety and customer issues (despite an excellent safety record). I think the SCCM was trying to avoid the hassle of having another FA to show me the jacket.

And no it is not too easy to put a jacket even if you have look at the demo few minutes before. When I did try it I was not sure which side was front and which side was rear :confused::ugh:.

As for the demo I am all in favor of having well endowed ladies doing the demo so the majority of the male pax would sit up and watch.

Rwy in Sight

[Little_Red_Hat]

Rwy, most modern lifejacket don't really have a 'front' and 'back' side... sure the inflation tube is more comfortable facing away from you but most jackets are designed to be put on either way.

(However, the TOP side is pretty clear, except to the guy in the Hudson ditching wearing his pointing upwards! There's a photo out there somewhere!!! :E)

I think it's true that pax would pay more attention if there's "something in it for them", but again, the novelty would wear off.

I'd let a pax try on a demo jacket, I'd just be discreet about it. I think airlines would be doing a great service to crew to let say, their top 5% of frequent flyers spend a day on an SEP course to see how to do the basics- use a jacket, open the door and so forth. They could then have an annotation on the passenger list that they are an ABP- it's got to be better than a 5min briefing during a prepped emergency!!

Some pax that I fly have more experience than me when it comes to ditching, having done underwater escape courses and thus make great ABPs in emergencies as they have experienced that panic. Something similar for FF's would be great!

[Rwy in Sight]

Where do I sign for that course? For the front/ rear side thank you


Rwy in Sight

[starbag]

Rwy in Sight,
""No you will create a panic among passengers and you don't know anything about planes so don't annoy me"
If it was made into a brief feature sometime during the flight, maybe that mentality could be changed.


If you were on my flight, I'd certainly let you try it on, but maybe ask you to come to a galley area out of sight of other passengers. The last thing we need is a hundred other people thinking something's up, grabbing their life jackets and causing panic. It's enough panic when we run out of chicken!

[Rwy in Sight]

I did ask while standing in a rear galley and my intention was to try it in a discreet way even as I was asking. The SCCM just walked in my row and stated that she wouldn't allow as not to create panic. Period no discussion allowed.:= I should said to her that I just found a perfect example of poor customer relations/ or maybe bad CRM. :8

Rwy in Sight

[jetset lady]

Unfortunately, until someone can find a cure for the, "It'll never happen to me" mentality, this will always be a problem. Look at how many people still don't wear seatbelts in cars, that drink and drive or that try to write texts on a mobile whilst doing 90mph up the motorway. As they say, you can take the horse to water....

However, I do think LRH's idea is a good one and easily acheivable. After all, the airline I work for has been known to let out the training facilities to "office bonding" groups, so why not frequent flyers? My only worry would be that the people that would have enough of an interest to attend one of these courses are not generally the sort of people that ignore the safety briefing anyway.

[SLFAussie]

I'll bet this gets people watching the safety video:

YouTube - Bare essentials of safety from Air New Zealand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Mq9HAE62Y)

[ozangel]

The Air NZ demo is fantastic - and from my personal experience, it actually got people watching.

When I was a single digit, a QF flightie with some time on her hands on a long haul flight pulled out her demo kit and for about 10 minutes allowed my sister and I to play with the shiny yellow equipment (still have the photos!).


It stuck with me, and as an 'grown up/flightie' I always took the time to 'entertain' the unaccompanied minors and restless children with the demo kit. Apart from the fact they think its a blast, the learning opportunity to touch an oxygen mask, or dress up in a yellow life jacket could just save a life. (Sometimes we used to play a game, awarding the fastest two children to put on a life jacket with a bag of lollies, before making them 'honorary flighties' for the day, getting them to hand out lollies or deliver a few drinks).

It was a winner 'every' time - even the crusty old businessmen would crack a smile.

If you can get away with it - do it - the parents will love you for it, and you might just save a life. At the least, you'll make the excitement of flying all the more memorable for your young passengers.

[HuntandFish]

Interesting to note that cruise ships insist on passengers putting on a life jacket . But I guess they have more stats to show they have saved lives

[jetset lady]

I'd guess they also have a bit more time....

[bondim]

Thats right, I used to work on a cruise ship, safety drill was mandatory for every guest, if they failed to take part they were not allowed to remain onboard! There is a massive difference, though, the water is RIGHT THERE! Aviation needs Hollywood movies like Titanic, now that would raise public awareness of aviation safety!

[PENKO]

Bondim, lifejackets on a ship are usually big foam floating cushions that no one will steal or damage. On an aircraft, lifejackets are inflateable only once. If you tell 300 passengers before a flight to put those jackets on for practice emergency drills, you can be sure that about half will inflate the thing, either by accident or by pure stupidity, grounding the whole operation!

[bondim]

PENKO,

Hi. I never suggested that airline pax should be made to put on lifejackets or to take part in an emergency drill or such like. I was merely confirming an earlier poster's observation about what goes on on cruise ships.

My answer to the question in the OP on this whole life jacket/safety demo watching is that, in my opinion, nothing anyone will ever do can make anyone pay attention if they dont want to.

[ChristiaanJ]

ozangle,
Thanks a lot for your tale!

So it can be done, if it's done as a game, and involving the children...
A bit like what gadgetman suggested, too....

Make it a 'feature', and there would be no reason for panic, and some people will learn something.

I liked the suggestion about corporate events, too... those who qualify would get a certificate entitling them to preferential seating at the emergency exits, with the added benefit of the bit of extra legroom...

CJ

[radeng]

As a SLF, I guess I fly too much - I'm pretty well word perfect on the BA safety briefing. Although it does irritate that when the little brat drops his stuffed toy rabbit, the CC gives it back to him instead of belting the little b*****d round the ear! But I take off my reading glasses, put on my distance glasses, pay attention, and look round the business class cabin and despair at all the mutts carrying on reading or occasionally, talking, and ignoring the demo. I figure that even if I know what to do by now, it's only polite to listen. Plus different airlines, different techniques. A320 on South West, place the over wing exit hatch on the seat. BA, eject through the opening. BA A320 ditching, use over wing exits, other exits above waterline. BMI, no mention of this.

OK, so I'm a sad puppy noticing the differences....but if ever it comes to it, I hope that I'll be alive afterwards. Not that it's likely to happen - I've flown over 2 million miles in the last 30 years, and probably the most interesting thing was a go around at Heathrow.

I suppose it is really because at the end of the day, air travel is too cheap and like riding a bus or a train. So it shows in the PAX behaviour.

[ChristiaanJ]

radeng,
I should admit I'm that other kind of sad puppy, an ancient aeronautical engineer who's read too many crash reports, and hence knows there are survivable ones (BA038 and many others).

So I listen... and read the card, and check where the doors are... and the life vests (under the seat or above my head?).

Maybe having missed the 1-11 runway overrun at Corfu by one week, and my wife missing the Corfu-Athens flight going down by one day, have something to do with it.

I doubt very much it'll ever happen to me now, but why be sorry if you can be safe?

CJ

[radeng]

ChristiaanJ,

I forgot to mention - check that there REALLY is a life jacket under the seat, and that it hasn't been nicked by some chavs off to Spain for the week. Only once did I find it missing, but I still check.

[talent]

I teach dinghy sailing sometimes in my local club (near Dublin, Ireland) and unlike pre-takeoff briefings, the lifejacket drill is eagerly watched because these folks know they are going in the drink at least once to learn capsize drill.

Contrast that to the stock pre-takeoff lifejacket drill which commences "In the unlikely event of a landing on water..." a phrase which is not calculated to make you sit up and pay attention. I think that phrase should be banned and replaced with:

"In the event of a crash-landing on water, you may have to jump in the ocean and you will drown if you don't wear one of these, so listen up, this is serious."

BTW, I tried to take out a lifejacket pack once but it wouldn't budge. Is there a velcro tab or something?
Talent