Aircraft recognition question

[goldox]

I asked this question on another thread, which seems to have been deleted for other reasons. So here goes again...

Does aircraft recognition form part of formal pilot training?

Thanx.

[PPRuNe Pop]

No. Can't think of a reason for doing so to be honest.

[goldox]

Well, for instance when hearing ground instruct a pilot to "give way to the 757" etc. I wondered, do they ever reply "err...just remind me what a 757 looks like"...

I imagine they just get to know them? But there seems to be so many similar shapes these days I just wondered about possible confusion.

[Coffin Corner]

If one is ever to grace a flightdeck I would be mortified if they didn't know what a 757/737/320/777/747 etc looked like, so much so that you shouldn't even be there in the first place :)

[MAN777]

From my experience I would say the majority of pilots are closet anoraks its just they wont admit it :)

[chiglet]

I remember an ATCO saying,
"Give way to the Wardair B747, that's the one with the Kangaroo on the tail...." :O

[AircraftOperations]

I've come across pilots that don't know the difference between some common aircraft types, and it doesn't bother them at all.

I've also rarely (never?) heard an ATC transmission that doesn't give the carrier name (when liveried accordingly) when requesting an aircraft to follow instructions after that aircraft.

[L337]

I've come across pilots that don't know the difference between some common aircraft types, and it doesn't bother them at all.


This is one of my pet hates, as a grumpy old pilot. If I am cleared "line up behind the landing Gulfstream IV." I always ask the FO, ... "Is that a Gulfstream IV ?" and nine times out of ten, they have no idea at all. My observation always is, then how can we know what to line up behind? The invariable response is.. "I am not a spotter."

In the cruise we then have a gentle conversation about safety and aircraft recognition, etc etc.

I am sure they think I am barking.

[Dan Winterland]

I once caused chaos at MAN having been told to taxy after a "somethingair"' CRJ. A small jet with a T tail taxied past, so I followed it. The berating I got from the ground controller was unjustifed IMHO, as the aircraft I actually followed was a EMB145 - also in BA colours but a different airline. (They look the same to me!) I don't think my answer of, "Listen mate, I'm paid to fly them, not spot them" helped! But I do think he should have been more specific. Being put in the sin bin of a monster repositioning taxi cost my company loads as I was in a 747.

I think most pilots know the major airliners, but anything smaller is a bit of a mystery to me. As for bizjets, I can recognise Gulfstreams because of their oval windows, but anything else - I don't have a clue.

[NutherA2]

I once saw the transcript of an R/T exchange when a Beverley reported a conflict with a 707; the airliner's crew asked ATC something on the lines of "Please inform the janitor of that tenement that this 707 is a DC8".

[goldox]

I remember an ATCO saying,
"Give way to the Wardair B747, that's the one with the Kangaroo on the tail...."


I've searched every "Airline Tail Colours" type book I have and cannot find the livery for "Company" ... ;)

[Orvilles dad]

Wasn't Wardair a Canadian Company founded by Max Ward, an early Bush Aviator? If so, why would it have a Kangaroo on the tail - it just had its name - see here http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Wardair_747-1D1.jpg

OD

[Bug Baron]

Thought the Australians used the "roo" on their B747's last I saw;)

[reportyourlevel]

I was asked by a pilot friend how the controller knows what type to say in the conditional clearance,he thought we were all "super-spotters". I didn't have the heart to tell him that it's written down in front of us. Having said that, controllers are taught aircraft recognition along with performance characteristics.

On the subject of "after-the landing...", in the UK the subject aircraft will always be the first one on the approach.

[Sir Herbert Gussett]

I'm always amazed by these spotter types that are walking and talking ICAO Doc 8643's!

[MAN777]

I would have thought that good aircraft recognition skills for EVERYONE involved in flying or handling aircraft would make airports safer places and to be honest its not that difficult is it ? If I was a pilot I would make sure I knew every type and carrier, not for spotter type kicks but for professional pride.

[mr Q]

What about military aircraft ( fast jets or, more likely, transport )))???
Line up after landing ...................??? What??

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Line up after landing ...................??? >>

Wrong phraseology again; something ATC would NEVER say!!

[EGCC4284]

Heathrow Director

Is it "After the landing ? line up and wait"

[chiglet]

"Give way to the Wardair B747, that's the one with the Kangaroo on the tail...."

Was actually "tongue in cheek"...The ATCO, [a VERY good looking young Lady....NOT being sexist] could NOT deferrenciate (sp) between Airlines, but by Gum, could she move traffic :D

[reportyourlevel]

Is it "After the landing ? line up and wait"

In the UK for a full-length departure the standard RT is:
"(Callsign) after the landing (aircraft type) line up runway (designator)".

I would normally put the "and wait" in there as two more syllables isn't a lot for the extra peace of mind it gives. If it's for a departure from anywhere other than the full length then the holding point designator must be in the line up clearance, so "(Callsign) after the landing (aircraft type) via (holding point) line up runway (designator)". (Controllers may use the holding point designator in any line up clearance as appropriate). I can get you CAP 493 references if you need them.

As an aside, I believe that in ICAO land the phrase would be "Behind the landing (aircraft type), line up behind". However this is a sketchy memory from a conversation I had ages ago, and there are people on here much better qualified to talk about ICAO than I am.

[CaptainBloggs]

Many years ago at a French airport - at night - I was asked if I was visual with the 757 on finals. I told the controller I was visible with a spread of lights, was that good enough?

I can spot most commercial airliners with little difficulty, but have little idea about biz jet recognition; bit of a nuisance in GVA!