I used to take antidepressents, can I still get class 1

[markymark]

Ive searched this forum but cant seem to find a straight answer. I was diagnosed with mild depression a couple of years back, I took the AD's they worked, im now off them. . .I am considering going for PPL/CPL but I need to know if Im wasting my time and money.. .The CAA web site doesnt give a straight answer either. . .Any ideas ??

[Wedge]

Yes. A history of taking anti-depressants will be no barrier to getting a Class 1 medical.

The important factors are how long you were on them and the severity of the illness, sounds like yours was a mild case and this will be no problem for a Class 1 or indeed a career as a pilot. More severe cases can pose a problem and each case is looked at seperately by the CAA on its own merits. The same goes for BA, other airlines do not in reality look as closer at medical history and will be satisfied as long as you hold a Class 1.

In general there must be a period of one third the time you were on them before a medical certificate can be granted - ie a holding period of two months without medication if you were on them for six months. This is to ensure that the illness will not relapse.

However, the issue of depression and so-called 'mental' illnesses can still be a problem because of the ridiculous mental/physical divide that exists in Western medicine. I don't recognise such a divide but unfortunately a lot of mainly older doctors still do. Obviously 'mental' illness is not consistent with flying an aircraft, but a history of any such illness which has got completely better should be no problem. However, there is an old fashioned school of thought that says once you have had a mental illness you should not become a pilot or similar - I absolutely reject this view and fortunately fewer and fewer Doctors still hold it. Furthermore European Human Rights law prohibits any such discrimination in practice. Having said this, it's still better not to shout about such a history if you want to become a pilot, for obvious reasons.

Many pilots suffer from Depression unfortunately, such are the stress levels of the job, and most return to flying once the problem is been sorted. The worrying situation is that because of the stigmatisation and fears over loss of licence, there are many pilots who do not declare the illness and continue flying. This is understandable but hardly a satisfacory situation, and this is why the mental/physical illness divide has to be broken down, which it is beginning to do so.

For more information call the CAA Medical Dept at Gatwick and ask to speak to an aeromedical advisor, they are very helpful.

[twistedenginestarter]

marky

The answer is yes. Just don't tell them at the medical. I made the innocent mistake of mentioning prior 'problems' going back decades. Cost me a lot of money to get out of that. They really don't like the idea of commercial pilots pointing the nose down to end it all and I can sympathize with that.

I cannot complain with the way the CAA dealt with this but I tell you this - I will never take the risk of owning up again...

[markymark]

Thanks for an in-depth reply Wedge, thats made my day and I can start really planning for the future. I will call the CAA med dept tomorrow but from what you say I should be OK.. .twistedenginestarter mmm... youre idea is very very tempting but Im going to be investing a lot of money, time, blood, sweat, tears over the next x years so I cant take the risk that they find out x years down the line. Thanks anyway.

[Wedge]

Before you do Marky, one note of caution. There are two ways of approaching this and twistedengine has outlined the old-fashioned way to do it, but he may well have a point. My way is the progressive way and is the way things should be heading, but we have a way to go before pilots are going to be upfront about this. You will find them (for obvious reasons) very unlikely to discuss it, even anonymously one PPRuNe!! Never many replies to threads that broach this subject, although I am sure everyone reads them with great interest.

Twistedengine, how long ago did you have these problems with the CAA, things may have moved on since then.

What I have told you is the official line, the CAA say that a history of taking medication will not stop you from getting a medical. Maybe true, but then you have to get a job - if there are two pilots with equal qualifications going for a job and one of them has a history of even mild depression - well, in the old days the one with the history would not have got it, these days things are slowly moving forward.

Call the CAA and discuss it, but when you go for the medical DO NOT volunteer that you have suffered depression unless specifically asked. I honestly don't know exactly what they ask - but I remember the phrase 'mental illness of significant degree from the CAA medical notes. Your illness was not serious, it was not 'of significant degree' so they don't need to know about it. You could not be penalised further down the line for not declaring it underthese circumstances.

Still a long way to go sadly before even mild depressions can be admitted to freely by pilots and wannabes - which is ridiculous especially as it is so common and becoming more so - but this is the world we live in.

Have a look at this old thread and read Bryan Griffin's account of how pilots with mental illness were treated twenty years ago.....

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=52&t=000042&p=" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=52&t=000042&p=</A>

[markymark]

Looks like Im touching a sensitive subject and again find there is more than one way to go about it. . .I will take youre advise, Wedge and try not to advertise the fact but I think it will be very difficult if the form or examiner asks "what meds have you taken in the last x years, what was youre indication?, how long did you take them .......etc... " . .Perhaps they will not ask such a question, it would be intertesting to know from anyone who has recently taken the class 1 examination if this is the kind of question asked and if it would be easy to hide the fact that I had a "depressive episode"

MM

[twistedenginestarter]

There's a form you have to fill in which asks specific questions that you have to lie if you don't want to reveal previous episodes. I can't remember precisely but maybe 'Have you ever been to a doctor with respect to mental disorder?''Is there any family history?'. If you tick no like I suggest, you're lying not interpreting the question in some novel way.

Depression and anxiety are extremely common in the general population (and incidentally always have been - it's nothing to do with the modern world).

If you have an episode that causes you to seek help (ie alcohol is too weak to correct the problem) it is much more likely that you will have to do so again in the future. This is why they want to know.

There is a theoretical basis to say that people who are periodically depressed are more stable when they have an episode than those who have stronger (hysteric) personalities but break down in spectacular fashion. Depressive types tend to be fail-safe/fail-passive.

I want to re-iterate the CAA acted correctly as far as I was concerned it's just you are taking one big risk when you reveal your faults in any life context. Honesty is a good policy but not always the best.

If you hide things I can't see how the CAA would ever find out unless there was some big problem but if you think that might happen then maybe you shouldn't be flying planes commercially anyway...

[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: twistedenginestarter ]</p>

[Wedge]

Some fair points twistedengine, however:

You are right that depression and anxiety have always been common but they are now reaching epidemic proportions and that has everything to do with the modern world. Quite simply, the human brain is not designed to cope with the prolonged stresses of modern life. Computers, TV, modern communications and of course now the internet have all contributed to the point where modern life is now led at breakneck speed. Our hunter gatherer ancestors evolved to be able to run when they were in danger, but not to deal with the technology of the 20th century.

Secondly, I cannot believe you have suggested alcohol as a treatment for depression, there could hardly be a worse drug you could take for it.

There are some who have depressive personalities as you suggest and they may have common personality traits, but others get depressed as a result of 'physical' causes like Glandular Fever etc.

Which brings me on to my main point - the whole root of the problem lies in the very phrase 'mental disorder'. Western medicine has drawn a hugely damaging dividing line between mental and physical. After all, the brain is a part of the physical body, and clinical depression itself is caused by a neurotransmitter deficit in the brain - what more physical manifestation could there be? And if you do suffer from Glandular Fever which brings on depression, are you lying if you say you have never been to the doctor for a mental problem. Or if you have 'M.E.' - an illness which unfortunately sits right in the middle of the 'grey area' between 'psychological' and 'physical'. We have to break down the mental/physical divide, and treat all illnesses as 'illnesses'!

All of that said, you are right to say it may well be the best policy for a wannabe to lie, because we have a long way to go before we achieve the destigmatisation of 'mental' illness. Ironically, it is those who have not had a previous episode who are more likely to 'point the nose down' and crash with 150 pax onboard (a la Silkair) - because when they get ill they do not realise what is happening to them.

It's your call Markymark, but sadly I think for pilots the best route is still to keep quiet - although this in itself only serves to perpetuate the status quo. Still, things are slowly changing.

[twistedenginestarter]

Wedge

Our hunter-gatherer predecessors lived in villages of around 30-50 people. The causes of mental disorder are largely interpersonal - you're girlfriend/spouse is lost to another group member, your children are killed during an attack by another village, you are ridiculed and displaced by a stronger group member etc. Hunter-gatherer couldn't run away from this. He was caught in a far more vicious and claustrophobic trap than we have to tolerate today. Fortunately for HG he didn't live that long and was often glad to avoid hunger or the pain of manifold physical disease. Modern life is an absolute doddle compared to anything our genes have ever known.

I mention alcohol because often 'depression' starts as anxiety. In turn anxiety is often the supression of aggression. Someone steals your girlfriend. You want to kill her. You can't because a)it's illegal and b) you actually love her. Your emotions are thus bottled up. After a while this triggers depression where you don't feel like killing anyone or anything not even a fly. This is all natural. Alcohol tends to alleviate ordinary anxiety. If it persists after 3 pints then you are clinically anxious. That was my point.

[Wedge]

twistedenginestarter

&lt;&lt;Modern life is an absolute doddle compared to anything our genes have ever known.&gt;&gt;

Not true. The point is that the human brain was not evolved to cope with the stresses of modern life, it did evolve to cope with the kind of stresses you talk about above. We were not designed to live the modern life of computers, cars, phones, aeroplanes, T.V., 24 hour news, over-long hours in offices and so on. It is this has has caused a significant increase in the incidence of anxiety and depression. It is still increasing sadly and people are suffering problems earlier and earlier. This illness that used to be only a real problem for adults aged 40+ is now happening to people younger and younger and is becoming a real problem in the 22-35 age range. There is no doubt it is on the increase and at alarming rates.

Doctors and psychiatrists are in agreement on this, you are wrong to suggest that the problem is no worse than it ever was, it is much worse than even 20 years ago.

[Jimbob123]

Mark. Sorry to hear that you experienced a period which required treating with anti depressants and I can understand your concerns regarding its potential impacts in obtaining a class 1 medical.

My own understanding is that mild cases should not pose a problem and each case is very much taken on its own merits by the CAA.

However, I can only recommend that you are open and honest about it if asked. This doesn't mean that you have to shout about it. You should be aware that if you are asked and make a false declaration and it is subsequently discovered later in a career then there is a very real possability that you would not only be sacked, but would face criminal prosecution for obtaining employment by deception. This can carry a custodial sentence.

Hope this is of help

[HugMistress]

Speaking as an outsider looking in on the past correspondence on depression, I am really sad that people still get hung up on mental health problems. Mental health problems are as common as physical problems and it has nothing to do with our current way of life- it is just recognised better these days -unfortunately the general (non medical) population still does not like discussing these sensitive matters.

Depression is 'the common cold of mental illness'. It is a condition in its own right and does not begin with anxiety (although anxiety may be associated with specific forms of depression). People can be on medication for varying periods of time depending on their symptoms and can RECOVER and function completely normally. By hiding these things under the carpet, this just exacerbates the situation and CAN put, not only the patient, but others at risk if not recognised and treated. The same principle applies to other chronic diseases such as diabetes and asthma (do you want a pilot to go suddenly into a diabetic coma, or to have an acute asthmatic attack while flying?).

So let's be a little more open minded to a condition that probably many of us have had in our lives (from mind to severe versions) and ensure that none of us suffers unnecessarily.

[sr106]

I think it would heavily depend upon:

1. Length of period you took the drugs

2. The kind of antidepressant and the dose.


All these super-duper wonder drugs, such as
Remeron, Prozac and Seroxat are highly effective
albeit at the expense of srongly altering your brain chemistry.
The only problem is: Nobody has a clou about
the possible long-term effects after taking these kind of drugs over an extended period of time.
Unfortunately, many docs prescribe them too frequently because they are out for the profit.

As for mild depressions there are several effective herbal
antidepressents available.

[Rob_L]

On a lighter note...

Re. the phraseology on the form, and the requirement to "answer the question", up until a few years ago, the relevant question on the Irish medical form was "Have you ever been in a mental hospital?" (or very similar)!

Begs the question "Went to visit me Auntie Bernadette, does that count?"