New Thomas Cook cadet scheme

[Flaperon75]

The following info was added to ppjn yesterday. I'd heard about it from the inside - it sounds like a great scheme and will no doubt attract a lot of applicants!! Keep checking the Thomas Cook website for more info:

New ab-inito cadet scheme with FTE Jerez and in conjuction with Flybe will launch in May 2010 with the first batch of pilots starting in October 2010. Concludes with Dash 8 type rating and 2 years with Flybe then onto the Airbus or Boeing with Thomas Cook.

Good luck!:ok:

[FlyingTinCans]

This has been a rumour around crew rooms at Flybe for a while now, although it sounds like a great oppertunity for the new guys, it does seem a little 'pie-in-the-sky'.
I mean there are hundreds of Dash8 pilots already at flybe with 1000's + hrs, why would Thomas Cook take on the less experianced guys?

Good luck to all if its true, but I would wait for something more official than PPJN before getting your hopes up!

[Flaperon75]

No - it is happening. As I said I've heard it from the inside....

I think this is Thomas Cook putting something back into the new pilot community and good on 'em. It's nice to see a ray of sunshine in what has generally been a gloomy time for aspiring airline pilots.

[mad_jock]

I mean there are hundreds of Dash8 pilots already at flybe with 1000's + hrs, why would Thomas Cook take on the less experianced guys?


Because they don't want flybe pilots they want TC pilots and they want their FO's to have more than 200 hours when they get let loose with the big hardware.

Its reasonably common these days with companys in the middle east sending their fresh FO's over to the UK to get 1000 hours plus TP experence before putting them onto Jets.


To my Knowledge

Eastern Airways
Logan

Have done this service for other carriers which is another reason why low houred pilots can't get a look in because they get 10 plus FO's every 6-12 months for free including training. And they don't moan all the time about upgrading. How many FO's are currently waiting for upgrade in flybe?

Now are they doing a proper license or a MPL?

[MIKECR]

Quite true...the likes of the Brunei cadets at Eastern and Logie were commonplace. 2 or 3 years TP experience in the UK and then back home to fly heavy metal of some description.

[FlyingTinCans]

Because they don't want flybe pilots they want TC pilots...

Well why send them to Flybe then!??? If the cadets are gonna fly for Flybe, in Flybe uniform, on a Flybe Aircraft, to Flybe SOP's, they better expect them to be Flybe pilots after 2 years!

they want their FO's to have more than 200 hours when they get let loose with the big hardware.

Exactly my point, why take a pilot who is Flybe TP rated, with 2 years experiance, which will translate to around 1200 hrs. When there are 100+ pilots who are Flybe TP rated with 4 or more years experiance and 3000hrs+ ?

Its reasonably common these days with companys in the middle east...

Because in the Middle East they dont have any large 'Feeder' airines, in Europe and the UK we dont have that problem.

Ive been wrong before, and I hope I am as there needs to be some movement in this industry soon!

[mad_jock]

Cause they don't want you.

They want to choose there own pilots and control thier training from the word go. And part of that training is flying a TP for Flybe as an FO they don't want LHS to RHS CRM issues. They just want to get the pilot up to speed with approaches and landings in a CAT enviroment then move them on to something heavier.

It could very well be that 5-6 years worth of pilots are stepped over. With no chance of coming away from turboprops and regionals.

And I wouldn't mind betting there will be some word of mouth deals going on so the larger jet operators don't screw all the TP operators up again like when easy jet started hoovering up the market. Which basically screwed 3-4 companys for 2-3 years by stripping there TP Captains sometimes with notice being handed in on the day they had completed line check. Bonds didn't mean a thing guys were doing 500 hours and then legging it. Training deptments couldn't keep up with the numbers leaving.

[FlyingTinCans]

Cause they don't want you.

Ha, well im glad you feel important enough to decide who they do and do not want. :ok: But so you can further make judgments about someone you know absolutly nothing about, Ill let you know I have no intrest in going to TC, so if this scheme is correct or not I dont care. This is not a personal vendetta for me.

Training deptments couldn't keep up with the numbers leaving.

Spare me the History lesson, I was there, ive worked in Airline Training!

Im just trying to give balance to the rumours of employment that are flung around on this forum, the scheme that has been posted on PPJN just doesnt add up!

For Instance: for a frozen ATPL guy, a DHC8 TR would bond you for 3years,
for an MPL guy, the TR will bond you for 5years!

If Flybe are gonna give people type ratings, they expect to make the money back from you.... 2years is not enough!

And the only sensible comment mad_jock made was that TP operaters are sick of dishing out training and getting nothing in return, Flybe have a history of struggling to keep FO's after 3 years and in turn New Captains, this scheme as its being advertised on PPJN would give no benefit to Flybe.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Heard this in the BHX crew room a a couple of days ago. Cadets are going to be 'owned' by TC. They will do a CPL/IR with a JOC on the end to flybe sop's. Then a DHC8 TR and two years online with BE before,as said, going on to TC's Boeings or Busses. They will be able to gain valuble experience with BE in the commercial aviation enviroment. Lots of sectors, hence TO/LDGs whilst experiencing the complex environment around us, such as a busy London TMA. The opportunity to transition from a seneca to a DHC8 which is very forgiving, and gain better handlling skills is better than going straight to a B757 or A320 and bending it in PIK or or PAU on base trg. As i am led to believe from someone who will be spending time with the cadets, they will be paid by TC even though flying for BE. Would'nt know about bonds though, but if its true that TC 'own' them, then it would probably be a TC bond signed very early on to stop them upping and leaving. Sounds like a good idea for everyone to me.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

But are we talking about just a limited number of cadets? 10 per year or in that kind of ballpark or is it on a larger scale?

[Groundloop]

They will be insufferable when they are doing their 2 years with Flybe - "We'll be moving to bigger and better things soon. We'll wave when we go over the top of you in our shiny jet!""

[mad_jock]

If it works like the other schemes flybe will be getting payed for all training including TR and someone else pays the FO while flying the line.

Rather a good deal for flybe me thinks, and if they also get a promise that they won't take any current flybe employees such as yourself in the training deptment its a magic deal.

Sorry the reason why you got the replys you did is because you come across as a pissed off FO looking for upgrade or a move to something heavy.

Change the "you" to "current flybe pilots"

[Flaperon75]

I think it will be quite low numbers taken on to this scheme; 6-10 per year, and yes, TCX will be paying salaries during time at Flybe

[Boing7117]

The opportunity to transition from a seneca to a DHC8 which is very forgiving

That made me chuckle no end.

Never flown a dash then....?

[FlyingTinCans]

Smooth Airperator I cant see this being the only way TCX will employ future FO's, the fact that the majority of Intergrated/Mentored schemes are either pulled all together, added too or people chopped from is because most airlines have no idea the pilot numbers they will need in 2years, let alone 4years which is the time scale these pilots will be on-line with TCX.

I still cant see this being a benefit to Flybe unless the time on-line with BE is longer, Flybe dont generally lose FO's until year 3/4, also having TCX FO's taking flying time from other BE FO's and therefore increasing the time it takes to get experiance for a Command will only compound the situation Flybe currently, and always has faced.

mad_jock I am a p*ssed off FO but not for this reason! :ok:

I would have loved to have flown a forgiving Dash, would have saved me a lot of ASR's!! :}

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Never flown a dash then....?

....yes and somthing bigger and shinier before that in and out of fithy sand ridden or jugle infested **** holes! Ok in context, what would appear to be a greaser on the flare will end up feeling like you just arrived from outer orbit and set off another large scale earthquake......but if you apply the wrong technique and comedown hard....the dash shrugs it off and happily carries on......the 757???? no chance. Probably get a sesma print-out an a phone call from the safety dept 2 seonds after shut down! :}

[Chief Brody]

Bugs Bearing Boxes,

Not sure Id agree that the D8 is as forgiving as you infer - I went seneca then dash and had more than one sleepless night during my first 6 months. As an aircraft its an ergonomic pain in the arse with such beauties as its alt capture arming button, the gravity gear extension checklist from hell as well as its tendancy to try and flip you on its back when doing efatos in the sim. Despite those 'isms' and many others I think back on it as very worthwhile from a learning curve pov.

...I also smile at the ships library being under your crew bag storage area for 'easy' access when you need those pesky Prestwick alternate plates going into Glasgow on a stormy night - another bombardier gem.

Compare that to the A320 with its extremely benign efato characteristics - no need for aileron input just rudder and backstick, a gravity gear extension procedure that can be completed in 30 seconds and the fact that george can be engaged at 100ft compared to the D8s 1000ft and I know where Id rather spend my working day.

Have many good memories flying the egg whisk though......gear getting stuck halfway through the retraction sequence, hyper sensitive proximity sensors on the doors causing cautions at least once a month, rudder trim runaway, high fuel temp readings, random autopilot approach mode failure - quite the baptism of fire.

[763 jock]

Quote:

"0 hours is way too soon to do selection when there are so many highly experienced and highly achieving unemployed pilots at all levels of the career ladder. When times are good it's fantastic, but at the moment I'd like to see are more standardised method of recruitment and progression"

So how do you square that statement when TCX have just hired 16 F/O's on the Boeing fleet that are ex TOM, GS etc? That's on top of the crews that are on part year contracts that are returning from last year.

Try getting some facts right before you sound off about "giving something back".

[copywrite33]

Anyone know when and where the applications will open up/be?

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Personally it is good to see a pair of airlines avoiding the ever more common, pay for type rating or pay for line training (although TC have done this before).

Call me cynical but this all seems to be a bit too good to be true for potential cadets. Maybe, TCX are showing forsight and predicting an upturn in demand for FO's in three years or so. Perhaps because of this they are willing to encourage cadets to join on sensible terms or.........maybe they will offer some vile deal that entails premium priced training, long term pay reductions with big interest added and that is only if at the end of training they decide to send you to Flybe. What is in it for TCX?

[beamer]

Never mind - Daddy will pay...................

[767200ER]

and so the armchair thread hijackers come to life... somebody PLEASE change the record!

[CABUS]

Yeah it's going ahead,TCX will be looking for eight cadets who will complete the initial course with Jerez, move to BE then if they are good enough continue to TCX. I believe it's a modern twist to the old JMC/Cali sponsorship.

Best of luck chaps

[kingofkabul]

Another advantage for TCX for this scheme is that they will have full access to all the cadets' sim check reports and any other information about their performance held on file. That way they could see it as mitigating the risk of taking on an unknown quantity, and can reject pilots if performance is not up to their standards.

I must admit I find it strange that TCX would pay for an employee to work for another airline!

An advantage for Flybe, other than the fact it is free labour, is that they can place the pilots at the less favourable bases and will not have to care as much about looking after the employees as staff retention will not be an issue.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with a similar funding arrangement as is used by CTC and that I believe TCX have used in the past (whereby repayments for training loans come out of salary before tax).

[Adios]

Kingofkabul,

They'd be daft not use use the pretax salary deductions. The tax break the cadets get from this means the pay doesn't need to be high enough to fund the taxes and both the company and the cadet get to save 11% for National Insurance contributions on that segment of salary. The company also gets to reclaim the VAT, so the training bill is significantly lower than it otherwise could be, though the VAT reclamation is not dependent on using a pre-tax salary deduction for cadet repayments.

What is strange about this is that Flybe use post tax salary deductions on their own schemes, but if TC owns these cadets, they can do it their way.

[oxotower]

Sounds like a really great scheme.

[Busbar]

I think you will find that this scheme is nothing new. Before TCX and My Travel merged, they both had similar schemes years ago. When My Travel was called Airtours International, they had this scheme running with British Regional/Manx Airlines. Cadets would complete their ATPL training and then join BRAL on the ATP for two years before going on to Airtours on the A320. I had several friends that did this. It worked very well.

Any form of sponsorship scheme on offer to wannabe Pilots is a rare thing these days. I see it as a positive move for the young guys and girls looking to get into aviation. Good luck to all those that apply :ok:

[oxotower]

Interesting

[flyhiigh]

When will it be able to apply and how? Does anyone know? And does anyone know about the requirements?

Good day everyone!

[Kiltie]

beamer

This scheme is for new starts in aviation. You've had your day, leave them to theirs.

[bucket_and_spade]

flyhiigh,

Be patient - the scheme and it's details haven't been made public yet! Rest assured this thread will explode once they have :)

B&S

[Finals19]

Oh dear...

This is unfortunate if true - there are still guys sitting in the original Flybe hold pool (before the FTE / Sponsored cadet seperate pool was established) that haven't moved for a couple of years. These were the original guys who were modular and picked from a select few schools around the UK.

Do I sense another EZY hold pool scenario where these chaps get left behind? Seems a possibility :sad:

[unductedfan]

Hi,

Does anyone know if, or indeed when, flybe will begin recruiting low hour first officers again? Be it from their hold pools or at best the general populous?

Thanks!

[Stu_88]

Actually, our 757's at TCX are hardcore, solid aircraft. Airbus's are what you wanna watch out for . . . .


Sorry if you think this is a bit out of the blue, just replying to a comment made earlier on the forum but can't seem to work out how to "quote" someone

[manxcat]

When My Travel was called Airtours International, they had this scheme running with British Regional/Manx Airlines. Cadets would complete their ATPL training and then join BRAL on the ATP for two years before going on to Airtours on the A320.

My only regret back in 95 was that I didn't have a PPL so couldn't apply for the scheme. I seem to remember it worked well but only if the cadet had the right attitude towards learning the trade during their 'apprenticeship' on the ATP.

Also I've got to agree with Stu 88. The 757 was a solid machine - sturdy, modern enough but it still felt like a real aeroplane. Ahhh...I'd still give my right arm to fly one (although it'd probably result in my losing my Class 1).

If and when the scheme comes to life people could do a lot worse. Two good airlines with great aircraft with an opportunity to learn the craft of airmanship and some commercial savvy before being let loose on heavier metal. In the current economic climate it's a no brainer.

Let's hope it's the start of things to come.

[antes56]

Are there any news about the starting of taking application for this cadet??

thanks:ok:

[cyn nickel]

It's fascinating that we are still considering the re-mortgaging of parent's homes as "sponsorship" by the wonderfully magnanimous and fiscally cunning airlines. REAL sponsorship entails a wee bit of risk and investment by the airline, and a then virtually guaranteed loyalty and commitment by the recipients. Back in the "when we "days of real airlines with Flight Ops and Flight Taining Departments led by REAL pilots and not KPI MBAs, selection was the key....the right cadet! A good Cadet made a good Second Officer made a good First Officer made a good Commander made a good etc....! From Cadet to Chief Pilot. Quality, not the ability to pay was the key. Selection based on suitability and merit, not bank balance.

(reaches for umbrella!)

[Stu_88]

^ I agree with cyn nickel

Might as well go through your own self funded course. However, the airlines do tend t guarentee you a job, and as we all know job security is paramount in this day and age

Thomas Cook aren't a bad company to work for either . . . .

[Put1992]

Selection based on suitability and merit, not bank balance.

So you're telling me they will be selecting on candidates willingness to pay as much money as possible?

I appreciate your points, but at the end of the day, there are hundreds out there taking loans out on self sponsored courses with no definate sniff of a job at the end. If you're going to do it, whats the problem with doing it on a course mentored by an airline, with an actual chance of a job at the end? Candidates are selected by aptitude and potential, the airlines doing these schemes have it in their best interests, and the empowerment to do so.

Put.

[aviator001]

when is the competition opening for the scheme in 2010? has anyine got a link to the page, tks.
Av..:ok:

[bucket_and_spade]

aviator101,

Read the thread - the scheme hasn't been made public yet.

B&S

[barker987]

how do you reckon, payment will work, like will you pay them £80,000 and get a salary straight after training or will you have to work for them for free for so many months?

[CraigyD]

Quality, not the ability to pay was the key. Selection based on suitability and merit, not bank balance.

I think if this 'sponsorship' does require the cadet to take out a loan of +80k like other such schemes, it is not going to be available to everyone. People like myself for example, who:

a) My mum rents our house, so loan can't be secured.

b) My dad lives with a new partner in her house, don't need to explain why I can't secure a loan here.

c) I don't own any property to secure a loan against.

And...

d) I don't want to put other peoples livelyhoods at risk. I live with my brothers and sisters, my grandparents are living retirment to full travelling the world etc etc. Why should I risk making them homeless or stamp on their dreams and aspirations because I want to fly a shiny jet! (Point D is of course a personal opinion :}!)

In short, I can't get a loan. No loan means no 'sponsorship'.

Craigyd

[G-HALE]

If this cadet programme is a sponsorsorship then it will be paid for and you will not need to borrow money.

If is a mentored scheme then you may have to get a loan.

Its illegal to offer something as a sponsorship and then charge people for it for what ever the sponsorship is for. There have been many law suits in America on this and I know a person that has sued a UK airline & the FTO in question and the Judge granted the case in favour of the Trainie Pilot and rightly so. There are to many companys misleading people into these so called cadet schemes and then on the entry requirements you have to pay for the course. Thats bollix, Just call it self funded co-pilot course or whatever and stop getting peoples hopes up for marketing reasons!!!!

[Stu_88]

Agreed. It iscrazy to think that to become a commercial pilot you would need £60k-£80k and go through one of the training centres, then you aren't necessarily guarenteed a job unless through a sponsorship scheme, which for the record "they" (the airline) can get away with sponsoring you a small amount of the total, however you then have to look at the job guarentee front. Its very much catch 22.

[clanger32]

Not being funny, gentlemen, but let's get very specific here. You say "you have to be filthy rich or your parents have to be have very deep pockets to get into any of these so called "sponsorship" schemes. It gives the normal person no chance of taking any of these opportunities!"
But what you actually mean is "you have to be filthy rich or your parents have to have very deep pockets to get onto one of these schemes without actually having to work for it yourself first".

There is absolutely nothing stopping you working for x many years to save the money to be able to pay for it yourself. Indeed one of the last batch of TC cadets to be accepted (And now flying the 757 for them) did exactly this. The ONLY thing stopping this approach, is you yourself. Have some pride and go and EARN the right to train, rather than spending someone elses money to do it.

To moan that you can't get the loan for this and that ends any hope you have of applying for it says very little of your commitment to it.

In response to the original point, no, it's not fair. Welcome to life.

[Slow Progress]

Rather than getting in to a slanging match about the morals of paying to train and fly, why don't we all wait for the scheme to be announced and then you can all debate then.

Based on what I have heard so far, this sounds like a very positive scheme and Thomas Cook should be commended for encouraging new people into the airline industry.

Let's just see what happens.

[hollingworthp]

But what you actually mean is "you have to be filthy rich or your parents have to have very deep pockets to get onto one of these schemes without actually having to work for it yourself first".

awwww - but I want it NOW!!!!

Much like self-certifying Greece ;-)

[Slow Progress]

Okay, Okay.

I am getting impatient now. Anyone know when the announcement is likely to be made?

[Mimiben]

at some point in June ... :rolleyes:

[aviator001]

so june, with a view to starting training by??!!

[CABUS]

I believe its starting in October 10 to complete by spring 12 then two years with Flybe then on to Thomas Cook. Obviously this is all dependant on a high level achieved throughout training and line flying with BE.

[aviator001]

completion by spring 2011 you mean right?! sounds good. i love a good rumour...

[PGSingularity]

I had an interesting conversation with a friend who flies with another major british airline today.. he said that there had been talks of Flybe "getting into bed" with his airline a few years back and it came to nothing in the end.

So maybe don't be surprised if this does not materialise.

As a wannabe, I hope it does, but as said initially, it was an interesting insight to hear.

[bucket_and_spade]

It's happening guys. The details were passed on to the TCX trainers at a training conference a few months ago. It's already the morning after the night before and the getting in to bed bit has been and gone!

[Stu_88]

Final prep's are being made now, patience is a virtue lads......(and ladies)

[Kestrel_Stu]

Indeed Flybe gave their final approval for the scheme to commence some weeks ago, this is well beyond "talks" - it is going ahead.

Keep your eyes peeled in Flight magazine and good luck. :ok:

[assymetricdrift]

A general straw poll suggests that there is nothing to benefit the current dash jocks in this at all having asked quite a few of them.

Quite a lot of people are actually really quite unhappy about it on line...

[BugSpeed]

I can categorically say that there is no plan to have a TCX / Flybe training contract.

The main reason is there is no mutual benefit for Flybe crew.

BS

[CABUS]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one BS. however, I also don't see how it would benifit BE.All I keep hearing from tri/e and senior skippers is that it's all going ahead. We will see,

rgds cabus

[Flaperon75]

I can see how it would benefit BE. They get a number of high quality pilots whose dash type ratings are paid for by TCX and whose salaries are paid by TCX for the 2 years they are at BE. How can that not be a good thing for them?
I agree it might not be of any benefit to existing Flybe crew but since when has that been a consideration for penny pinching airline executives when they are making these kind of decisions.

[aviator001]

this thread seems to have died a death.. does anyone have any new info on the scheme from over the last week.
cheers lads..
Av.. :ok:

[Adios]

A group of paying Q400 students for FlyBE's new type rating center is a plus and free FOs for two year's is a plus. The hard part will be keeping their feet on the ground so to speak since they will all know there's a big shiny jet waiting for them. The scheme is loaded with opportunity for resentment from FlyBE's other mentored cadet FOs if this lot act haughty or cliqueish. If BE are smart, they'll send them to different bases.

[aviator001]

and what happens if students dont cut the mustard at BE to make the reqd standard for the big shiny jets??!! will they continue on at BE until such time at a loss to TC or will they be horsed out with a bill for the rating.. i dont think keeping them apart will be an issue as they will only meet briefly on the ramp from time to time..
it sounds like a great scheme for the lucky choosen few, BE and also for the standard of future crew in TC..
just hurry up and launch it lads....

[Otto Throttle]

What on earth makes you think that Flybe operate to, or accept, a lower standard than TC?

If they're not up to scratch then I'm pretty sure they'll be shown the door in fairly short order, regardless who picks up the tab.

[lander66]

Exactly, just because Flybe don't operate big jets doesn't mean that they are a substandard airline with lower standards. I don't think TC will treat Flybe as a holding pool, more like a judicator as to whether the pilots are good enough for a piloting career at all; not just whether they are good enough for TC. If they are not good enough for TC, they shouldn't be good enough for Flybe.

[flyinthesky]

OK, time for someone to maybe put a few facts to all of this. I work for TCX. I was AIH/MYT before and a direct product of the then Airtours Cadet Training Scheme. In essence, this scheme is almost exactly the same. Maybe it's because both the present TCX DFO and CP (ex BA Citiexpress) have direct experience of how the previous scheme worked.

All candidates were screened and interviewed. Yes, there was and still is a financial element and all candidates had to be able to meet all of the criteria, BUT it is a guaranteed job at the end with TCX. Flybe get a free FO for 2 years and I can categorically state that during my time at BRAL/Citiexpress we were treated EXACTLY the same as any other resident FO. However we were not part of the BRAL seniority list or able to go for promotion. We were listed on the AIH seniority list and paid by AIH. To my knowledge there was never any resentment, we even met up with some old faces when we returned to MYT, as it had become.

What TCX get is a capable FO, with experience and able to pass their jet type rating. They have a knowledge of how the line works and a degree of commerciality. Sometimes that's a bit lacking in 200 hour cadets. They can complete their jet line training in 14 sectors rather than the 40 or so we have had in the past.

What Flybe get is a capable FO, paid for by TCX. They do not have to worry about where to put them as they can be based anywhere. They do not have to worry about their career progression and they can map exactly when they will leave.

All of the folks that wish to pour scorn on the scheme need to look long and hard at what else is on offer - precious little. Those that pass, and eventually join us will have a great time, both at Flybe and TCX. If I won the lottery, I'd go back to turboprops tomorrow, and I'm the skipper of one of those 'big, ever so difficult to fly, shiny jets'. It's not half as much fun!!!

At the risk of being deluged, feel free to PM me for more info. I know little more than has been made public but would be happy to add any more detail people may want.

Regards

Flyinthesky

[lander66]

Thanks for some real information flyinthesky, can I just ask what the financial element in your scheme was? Is it a large security bond or just some smaller payments for accomodation etc. I am guessing it is not a full sponsorship.

[greyb33]

flyinthesky,

Is this scheme definitely going ahead, as I have spoke to other guys based at manchester that work for Thomas Cook that have heard nothing up to now. If it is going ahead has there been date set for when the scheme will open?

Thanks greyb33

[flyinthesky]

The scheme has been approved at board level. Timescales are unknown to me but the names of the interview/mentoring panel are. So unless a radical decision is made to cancel at late notice then I would not see anything changing.

As for the financial elements. This is not public yet, and still being worked upon. The scheme of old (MYT) had the candidate paying for all costs upto the end of s/e training. The company then picked up everything from m/e training onwards. You were bonded for 5 years on a reduced salary which paid back the bond.

I'm not going to guestimate figures because training costs have changed so much since I went through Cabair!

[flyinthesky]

Jambone,

the previous scheme was a fixed price deal. Provided you met the companies recruitment criteria and could meet the financial obligation, then you were offered a place.

The emphasis being on getting the best candidates, not the richest ones. The whole background behind the introduction of the new TCX scheme is recognising that it benefits them to have a stream of very capable FO's coming through, who should then stay with the company long term. It is not about whos' father is richest. Previously, anyone with more flying experience than PPL would not be considered. This was so that the company could control the type/std of training each potential FO would get.

[lander66]

I just hope they stick to how it should be done, and pick quality over the highest my-daddy-buys-me-anything bidder. Surely Thomas Cook wouldn't help Ryanair in dragging this industry down?


The selection process won't be based on who has the wealthiest background (no schemes are). Unfortunately, it is an unfair world where young people don't have equal opportunities (especially in this industry). If you want to train to become a pilot and don't have parents able to pay for it all for you, you have to work far harder and it will take much longer although it will make you into a more rounded person at the end of it. You will still be required to provide however much money is neccessary for the training; if you don't have it you won't be able to do it. Let's hope this scheme is relatively low-cost for the cadets.

[paulyboi]

when this scheme is posted to the public, do you know where it will be advertised first, so able to apply in time. i monitor thomas cook website under careers for pilots. but al this seems too good to be true and im just worried i am going to miss it

[bucket_and_spade]

Paulboi,

Save yourself some effort and just keep an eye on this thread!

B&S :ok:

[flyinthesky]

When it goes live, I should imagine it will be advertised both on the TCX jobs website and in the back pages of Flight International.

But someone will have it on here before the ink is dry, I am sure!

[waco]

.......just a thought...........allegedly and all that.............

I wonder how many of the successful candidates will have relatives or connections with TCX................

:ok:

[Groundloop]

I wonder how many of the successful candidates will have relatives or connections with TCX................

I went on a Thomas Cook holiday once. Do you think that would be worth mentioning?:ugh:

[mindstorm]

Not sure where it will be advertised. I know internally and almost certainly FTE website.

Selection will be based on Jerez screening and then TCX will interview a pool of about 20-30 and do online numeracy/literacy and possibly MBTI/Emotional Intelligence. 8 places planned for 2010.

Basic deal - cadet pays for Jerez course, TCX pay low salary during time in Spain. Next 7 years (2 in FlyBe), cadet is paid lower salary to amortize the 2 TR's.

:)

[Gustavo_Nieto]

Anyone knows if this programme will be open to international students?....:bored:

[mad_jock]

Aye fill your boots. Its well known there is a shortage of pilots in europe.

No problems at all getting a work permit.

The converstion to JAA is a piece of piss as well only cost 10 quid. Stick you application in and give them a ring every couple off days to make sure they know your really up for the job.

[Rocknerd]

Hi guys, long time reader - first time poster here.

Having read through this thread a couple of times now, I can't quite understand whether or not the scheme takes you right from the very start? i.e. Little to no flying experience and no medicals.

Sorry I seem a little ignorant, im currently applying to the RAF and looking for a potential back up plans.

Also trying to catch up on the civie street lingo:p

Cheers for any help!

[paulyboi]

thanks guys.. i guess just sit tight and watch this is the most reliable source, becuase like was said, as soon as it goes public, this page will balloon. just hope my cv wil be good enough. any rumours on what their looking for? selection and interview process?

[bucket_and_spade]

Rocknerd,

Yep - it's ab initio training, zero to hero, right from the start, etc. I imagine many of the successful applicants will have some kind of flying experience though, be it gliding or PPL...

B&S

[andrew152]

If Thomas cook wanted successful candidates to pay for all of the training at FTE Jerez, would that cost be less to those people that had their PPL already, or would you still be required to pay the same and spend the time 'breaking bad habits'?

[hollingworthp]

These schemes are generally ab-initio so ppl would likely be disregarded and no discount on training is to be expected :(

[bucket_and_spade]

What hollingworthp said. A well-known UK integrated school which has recently become an academy used to offer a discount a few years ago but stopped it, for self-sponsored and airline tagged students alike.

A PPL might not save you on course costs but it demonstrates a commitment to, and investment in, flying, amongst other things like (you'd hope!) at least a bit of natural aptitude.

B&S

[andrew152]

thanks for the advice/information.

[clanger32]

Main point already covered (no discount for pre-existing hours), but the one thing not covered that mightbe worth considering if you have a PPL and then go integrated - sponsored or not - is that learning from scratch to CPL/ME/Ir standard with no prior experience is a big hill to climb. Far from impossible (god, even I managed it!) but I would say, from my experience that I feel my confidence and ability to absorb the new information in every flight would have been a LOT higher had I had a lot more hours than I did when I started.

What I'm trying to say is that a PPL won't save you cash explicitly, but it may well save you having additional training (that you need to pay extra for) and it may well help keep your lesson scores up - which in turn helps breed the confidence that is all important for your flight tests.

[Adios]

Not to mention having a PPL may well help you nudge ahead of the competition during selection tests.

[andrew152]

well here's hoping!

[blueskiesalways]

Heard from a mate on the inside...looks like they're launching this cadet scheme at the Manchester University Careers fair.

Careers fair website seems to back this up:

Exhibitor A-Z (The University of Manchester) (http://www.careers.manchester.ac.uk/students/events/fairs/graduaterecruitmentfair/exhibitora-z/index.htm?idno=33592&day=2)

No details yet on how/when to apply - website suggests 'coming weeks'. Best dig the old cv out...!

[LessThanSte]

So, anyone manage to get to the Careers Fair up in Manchester today and get to check this out? Any more details?

[lander66]

Thomas Cook are only there on Thurday not Wednesday so maybe we will get some posts later...

[aviator001]

so did anyone make it to the fair in manchester? did they give a launch date?
cheers lads.. :ok:

[FANS]

Could someone kindly explain why TCX need to offer this scheme when there are so many unemployed pilots out of work/so many from Flybe that would be willing to join anyway, or will it just be a way of having the RHS on a much lower payscale?

In addition, do they get any kick-back from FTE?

Presumably, the course cost will be lower than self-sponsored as TCX must have been able to gain a discount for guaranteeing circa 10 places, i.e. £0.5million - £1 million.

I'm not having a go at the scheme, I just don't really understand why in the current climate.

cheers

[hollingworthp]

My thoughts in no particular order:

a) Probably not too many pilots type-rated on Q400 (purely a guess).

b) Airlines are run by accountants who like the cheapest option and quite a few of these schemes will take on cadets on a reduced FO salary.

c) Airlines are very conservative and the schemes provide a known quantity 'product' with pre-selection and monitoring throughout their training without any commitment to actually recruit anyone who turns out to be a donkey (based on skills or more likely personality / work ethic etc) so it's a bit like a year long interview process taking place during the training.

d) Most airlines don't recruit captains but would like to take pre-selected FO's who would be suitable for LHS are are likely to be loyal enough to hang around long enough to make the move.

Probably other reasons but that is some of why I think these schemes form part of the recruitment these companies conduct.

DISCLAIMER: These are only possible explanations and not my personal beliefs - so no requirement for flaming .... muchas.

[flyinthesky]

As someone who was at the receiving end of the previous AIH/MYT cadet scheme, perhaps I could pose the following answers to FANS;

I fully accept that there are many unemployed/ low hour pilots currently out there doing their level best to secure employment. I most certainly wish all could find the right job in the right place. The facts behind the establishment of this scheme were to provide TCX with a reliable stream of well qualified, known individuals. They will be monitored throughout their training with feedback to TCX from both the FTE and FlyBe. The cadets know this, and if anything it makes you feel a part of an organisation even before you really join it.

This scheme affords TCX the ability to plan ahead for the arrival of the cadets which works well given upcoming retirements etc. There may be pilots now, but who knows in 2-3 years time.

The idea of a scheme such as this was always to try and 'gain' a pilot for life. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. There are still many ex cadets in the company and many have progressed easily into the LHS.

Don't be under any illusion that TCX will not be contributing to this. A very strong case had to be made at board level for financial support in a very difficult trading environment. The comittment is there from the company and I feel the scheme will help both parties.

[PAPI-74]

This is why I have come out of BALPA - It has no teeth.
Why are we as professional pilots standing for this?
The market is saturated with good pilots, why do we need more cadet schemes coming through?
We need to unite, tell BALPA that if this isn’t sorted in 6 months, they can shove their membership. There should be a %age of the pilot workforce as cadets, not like Easy, RyanAir etc... all jumping on the cadet-train and it becoming the norm.
It is currently, with 3000TT, impossible to get a job thanks to the greed of the airlines. And don't blame the banks for the climate, this has been forming for years as more cadets take the 100k plunge. I am thinking of changing my name by deed and applying myself.

[aviator001]

not to sidetrack where this conversation is at, but, does anyone know when the scheme is being launched for definate?

[assymetricdrift]

I am going to agree on this - I think BALPA should be taking the fight against this scheme.

It is not fair to the currently employed and the currently unemployed in the industry.

There are hundreds of experienced FOs and Captains out there with B757/B767/A320 experience (often with thousands of hours!), and yet here there is an offer to install a whole new selection of inexperienced pilots onto the line.

BALPA need to take a stand against schemes like this, while the going is still good. It is not a popular idea inside the industry and will increase a great deal of resentment across the board.

[bucket_and_spade]

TCX actively sought out many pilots from many airlines that have recently failed and they are now on the payroll. What TCX want, quite rightly, is a broad spectrum of experience in the flightdeck. This caters for FO/CP ratios, retirements, etc.

In the UK, there have been low-hours pilots being mentored by an airline during training and then going on to fly airliners for decades. It's not the new 'cancer' some suggest it is. Yes, the T&Cs of previous schemes were substantially better than those of the last couple of years or so (pay-for-a-rating, pay-to-fly, etc.) but this scheme represents a shift towards more investment from the airline, which is, I think, a step in the right direction.

I agree that BALPA should be stamping on paying for ratings and, more so, on the ridiculous practice of paying for line training/flying but too many people on these forums lump pay-to-fly with low-hours pilots. Yes, low-hours pilots are those paying to fly but not all low-hours pilots are paying to fly.

Are you suggesting, though, that BALPA should be discouraging new pilots from joining the industry (through reasonable, fair schemes)? Note: we don't know the financial details of this scheme just yet so can't classify it as a good deal or a p***take but it looks like it might have the potential to be fair deal, with give and take on both sides...

[PAPI-74]

I am suggesting that lets keep the whole recruitment fair and above board. For many months / years now Easy, Ryan and others have only advertised for ‘low hours’ FO’s. Yes they were good enough to take on crews from a few sinking ships, but the only way in is still via CTC, or other, if you are not experienced on type. With airline time, why should anyone become a victim of their own experience?
If they need, for example, 60 FO's – recruit:

6-10 cadets, depending on their current number of cadets
20 TR pilots from various age groups, again depending on their current situation
Remainder from instructor or Turbo Prop backgrounds 1500hrs +.
All from the UK and outside if they cannot fill the places.

[bucket_and_spade]

PAPI-74,

With airline time, why should anyone become a victim of their own experience?


I completely agree. I can't think, off-hand, of any other industry that does this.

6-10 cadets, depending on their current number of cadets
20 TR pilots from various age groups, again depending on their current situation
Remainder from instructor or Turbo Prop backgrounds 1500hrs +.
All from the UK and outside if they cannot fill the places

Again, I think something like this is a good idea and, speaking as someone who knows a bit about TCX, I genuinely think TCX try and do something approaching this - admittedly though, positions for those with experience don't seem to be advertised quite as obviously as you might hope.

From your first post I got the impression that you advocate a freeze on new pilots entering the industry until those, experienced, guys who have fallen on bad times are employed. I don't think airlines like TCX owe people a job - the company interests should come first but I completely agree with your proportional representation idea (with the 'cadets' still being a minority of those recruited) - that way there are still opportunities for those with the drive and ability to be accepted on to 'sponsored'/tagged schemes to enter the industry, while, quite rightly, the company can poach the best qualified/most experienced pilots at the same time, like any other industry/profession.

B&S :ok:

[rick0]

Running it through FTE... apparently 3 years with Flybe then onto Thomas Cook..? Info should be on net within a week.

[Flaperon75]

Flight Training Europe Jerez (http://www.ftejerez.com/forms/thomascook/thomascook.php)

[aviator001]

what are the region and postcode reqd in the search engine to apply?
cheers..

[bucket_and_spade]

rick0,

It's 2 years with flyBE.

Felys & aviator001,

You've just failed the first stage of selection, finding the (not very well hidden) application section!

B&S :eek:

[BobsCousin]

You've just failed the first stage of selection, finding the (not very well hidden) application section!

In fairness, the application on the website came out a few hours after it was linked on FTE's site.

It's up and running now though!

Find the latest vacancies for Thomas Cook pilots (http://www.thomascook.com/recruitment/cabin-crew-and-pilots/pilot-vacancies)

[bucket_and_spade]

My bad.

Good luck!

B&S :ok:

[nickyboy007]

...Any idea of what the selection process will consist of ? type of test ect ?

[antes56]

anyone know what about the cadet pilot will be?

money,selection,course....

thanks!:ok:

[kkelly77]

There doesn't appear to be any detailed information about the scheme on FTE's or TC's website. Anyone have link to something with a bit more information?

K

[rick0]

rick0,

It's 2 years with flyBE.

Felys & aviator001,

You've just failed the first stage of selection, finding the (not very well hidden) application section!

B&S http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

I actually posed that before the page was up on FTE's website :ok: I got the info from a bloke who did the career fair in Manchester.. but yeah.. my mistake.

[waco]

give that man a coconut..............:ugh:

[antes56]

please...anyone know something about the cadet pilot?

[Chrisbowe82]

antes56 -If you read through this thread, you'll find links and information that contains everything you need to know. The link to the recruitment fair was a pretty detailed account of the role and requirements. At this stage though, I'd hope you would know fully what was expected of you. If you go to Thomas Cook's recruitment page, it will tell you everything you need to know. You have to do some things yourself, don't expect everyone to do all the hard work and post everything here for you. I don't mean that in a patronising way, but you should be looking through the links that were very helpfully posted by others in this thread.

[antes56]

Dear Chrisbowe82

thanks for the answer...I read all the thread,and although I find the information interesting,i think they are almost only what all the people here supposed will be this scheme...
anyway,as i understand,you have to pay for the course with fte ,the TC pay 1000£ a month for you and at the end they will pay for the TR on the aircraft..is this correct?

:ok:

[larzabell]

on the tcx website it says you will need to be able to pass a class 1 medical.

I started the application and it asked if I had a class 1 medical. I clicked no and it refused my application?! :{

Im a fit and healthy young laddy! lol

[ba038]

It said the same to me!.I think you have to get the medical before you apply.

[Thomas1984]

Hi all,

it was asked:

2. Do you hold, or are you able to obtain, a valid JAR class one medical certificate?

So if you don't have it but are able to have it it is ok ?

I'm french but i think i well understood ;)

[andrew152]

if you are UNABLE to get a class 1 medical then I doubt you getting a job. Before I commenced any of my training the first thing I did was sit the class 1 medical to ensure I didn't get too far and realise I wasted £xxxxx.

why not e-mail the recruitment team opposed to asking people that are not directly involved

not meant to sound cheeky I just wish people would do a bit of leg work themselves

[bucket_and_spade]

not meant to sound cheeky I just wish people would do a bit of leg work themselves

Well said.

Guys, come on, if you can't/won't read some simple questions or look up some info which is readily available yourself, how far do you hope to get with a competitive selection process and then the career itself?

The last page or two of this thread have been a bit painful to read :{

Not trying to be harsh - just suggesting people need to up their game!

B&S

[FiiS]

can some1 tell me where 2 aply ..? plz plz plz all my life wantd 2 b a pilot n this is best chance 4 me plz plz plz halp me!!!!!!111

*tumbleweeds*

Couldn't resist, sorry guys :}

I've applied. I am some way into hours building, anticipating a trip to Canada to do some more, and then gotta get stuck into those exams. However ... I've not applied for a scheme like this is some time. Fingers crossed, guys.

*sigh* Does applying make me a bad bad person? I didn't get into the last 14 for GAPAN, and if this doesn't work out I'll still be self funding my way through. Going in eyes wide open - to dodge the traps ...

[CABUS]

The last page or two of this thread have been a bit painful to read http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

Not trying to be harsh - just suggesting people need to up their game!

B&S

I totally agree with B&S, those who want a sponsorship with TCX really need to start stepping up their game. If you need to ask where to apply, im afraid to say its not looking good from the outset:(. Come on guys ' THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX' dont just wait for a link to be posted on Prune, apply and then wait for the phone to ring because it wont! The slots will have already been filled with those who have written letters and made contacts!

Best of luck to you all and happy night Turkey landings to B&S.

Cabus

[antes56]

the cost of the course is the integrated one you find on the fte page?
81k £ - 1k£ a month for the period of the course (- TR paid from TC)?

:ok:

[waco]

Guys, you are all dreaming...........I bet a large percentage of the successful candidates will come from within the carrier.

You are niave if you think otherwise.

[bucket_and_spade]

Best of luck to you all and happy night Turkey landings to B&S.


Where else!? ;)

Guys, you are all dreaming...........I bet a large percentage of the successful candidates will come from within the carrier.

You are niave if you think otherwise.

Not looking at the cadets from previous company schemes...

That said, there will be TCX staff who work in other areas of the business who will apply - their experience of airline ops can only be a positive in the selection process.

B&S

[waco]

B & S

"Not looking at the cadets from previous company schemes..."

Simply not so...........

[the ace of spades]

we all know that this happens, it happens in every line of business, not just in aviation.. but not all places go this way, there will be some for the honest grafter..

[waco]

.......and the moon is made of cream cheese...........

Still I suppose its another straw for you to cling on to.

Great career planning.

[bucket_and_spade]

waco,

I agree that people have joined TCX as pilots who've had experience with the company beforehand, a family link to an acting employee, etc. As ace of spades suggests, this isn't unusual.

But...

You suggest that a "large percentage" of previous cadets have had these links - this is simply not the case.

By way of concrete example (which you don't provide) - the biggest fleet in the company is the Boeing 757 fleet. TCX ran a cadet scheme in collaboration with OAA, with cadets joining the B757 fleet in 2007 and 2008 (and 2009 but I don't know much about this intake). A total of around 12 cadet pilots. None had any of the above links you suggest.

I personally am only aware of 3 pilots on the payroll (out of a total of between 600 and 700) who joined the company as low-hours cadets, either with a relative in the company or previous experience in another area of the business.

The nepotism you suggest isn't really the reality - don't be disheartened if you're thinking of applying for this scheme without knowing the secret handshake everyone!

B&S :ok:

[Thomas1984]

do you know the deadline to register?

[the ace of spades]

why dont you just register now instead of asking when the deadline is.. it takes 10 mins to apply!!

[kkelly77]

Application submitted :ok:

Best of luck to everyone. I'm sure everyone wants this as much as the next person :)

K.

[antes56]

anyone know about the PRICE of the course?

i just want to know it before apply:):)

thanks!

(I can't find on all the other information...):)

[the ace of spades]

It is 300,000 euro's.. Where exactly have you looked??!!

[antes56]

on this thread,on the fte page,on the thomas cook page...

the only thing a find out was the TR payed from TC after the course and the 1000£ a month payed from TC during the course...

what about the all course?

[colourblindgeek]

Well, I'll look for you.

Hang on a minute while I open up another tab here.

"Click, click click click...... oooh that's expensive"

OK, I'm back............Yup just looked and its £81,000 (so I guess that's 98,500 Euros to save you wondering how on earth to translate Euros' to Pounds)

It was hidden in the greatest depths of their website, cunningly diguised as an Integrated ATPL course (the clue came from Captain Hutchings).

Of course I'd say factor in the JOC course at 6886 Euros's.

And don't forget to keep a little aside for shoes - they're not included.

Would you like me to do any more research?

[antes56]

thanks!:ok:
you did a great job for me..

that's enough for now...I had to wait days,and write 3 post to receive an answer,and finally I get!:):)

good luck to all who will join this scheme!

[the ace of spades]

the future is bright for you antes56, real bright.... :ok:

[bucket_and_spade]

antes56,

You having a giraffe?

B&S :ugh:

[antes56]

@the ace of spades

I hope for yowu too...:ok:

@BS

what does it mean??

[Halfwayback]

B&S

Right over their head!:confused:

HWB

[kingofkabul]

Does anyone know about the salary prospects when cadets start flying for FlyBe and TCX?

...Only ask as repaying a £81,000 debt off a starting salary of c.£27,000 at FlyBe would probably count me out!

When cadets go to TCX do they start at the bottom of the rung (c.£38,000) or do they go straight onto year 3 of the salary scale?

Thanks in advance, kofk

[assymetricdrift]

To be honest, it would be incredibly unfair on the current BE guys and girls if the cadets were paid more than they were. It would certainly cause a fair deal of resentment - I think quite a lot of us accept that the BE salary is a bit on the low side, and it would not help to have guys coming through who are earning nearly twice as much and only staying in the airline for 2 years...

Loan repayments are possible on the BE salary though, it just means that life becomes really quite tight (I hear a couple of years of pasta for dinner!!) But £81,000 of loan is a very significant amount to pay off. I don't envy that one...

[FiiS]

colourblindgeek, Ace, B&S ... :ok:

LEG-ENDS (that is to say, ends of legs. Feet.)

[markp123]

£81,000......balls to that :)

[FANS]

It's no sponsorship.

Are TCX seriously encouraging its future pilots to take on nearly £100k of debt in the current climate.

Unfortunately, the pool of real applicants will be very narrow due to this constraint.

Equally, the information is pretty limited around salaries, which is kind of important when taking on this amount of debt. And before some joker pipes up that you just need to research it, previous schemes, e.g. flybe have been very clear about all of the financial details.

How come you TCX buy 10 places and no discount is received, or do TCX just make a nice turn?

[Coffin Corner]

The starting salary is irrelevant to Flybe pilots, purely because these "cadets" salaries are paid by Thomas Cook. Flybe receives these people free of charge hence the attraction to Flybe.

One thinks this is the start of the slippery dip at BE as well. Time will tell.

[spaceman18]

£81k is indeed alot to pay, but is less than the CTC/Oxford scheme.
This scheme also has the airlines involvement from the start, seems miles ahead to me. I actually think its a step in the right direction away from current schemes, particularly given the acknowledgement it gives to the big training leap that is involved when first going onto 'big jets' after training.

[barker987]

do you think the cadets will be put straight into a job or in some type of holding pool for months?

[Coffin Corner]

Depends on the demand for pilots, if Flybe aren't paying for them it's likely they'll be thrown out on the line.

[CABUS]

I believe if Tcx are taking guys on they will be covered by the Pilots Policies and procedures which means they will be paid according to Tcx payscales. If this is the case the cadets will be paid a starting of 25k rising to 28k with Be then staying on the second officers salary scale for at least two years with tcx with a top cadet salary of 37k. Then once the ' cadet scheme' is over and the guys are fully online they will no doubt qualify for senior fo which means a step up to 49k. Also on top of this cadets will earn their allowances which equates to roughly £500/month summer short haul and £1000 long haul but this is going to be taxed soon, bugger! Also when they join tcx they can opt for day off payments at the roster stage which means you can earn anything from £ 318-850 for working a day off.

I would like to stress this is my opinion on what might happen if the cadets are taken on under the PPP however the major floor in my statement is that I don't think they could be taken on under the tcx scheduling agreement so that may all be total b:mad:s,this is while they are at flybe anyway.

B&S, do you reacon this is realistic or do you think they will become eligable for the PPP when their cadetship is over?

[lander66]

Right, £81K, that's it, I'm out of the picture. Sounded promising but now a lot of us won't be able to do it because we can't get loans (and don't want 81K of debt). Why can't a european airline do a Cathay-esque sponsorship?

[clanger32]

Why can't a european airline do a Cathay-esque sponsorship?



It's no sponsorship.



No, it's NOT sponsorship. One could even argue that it's not even that good a deal. But then what are your alternative routes into the industry?

[contentious point alert] - EVEN if you go modular, you should factor at least (IMHO) £50k for your training (alright, it can be done cheaper, but for the general person, who might need one or two extra lessons). Then there's no jobs out there, really there isn't. So factor another £30k for a Ryanair Type rating. Thats' IF you can get past screening. And if you pass the check. You're already at £80k

The point is, this is a silver to a TAF of "OVC001 TS +RA" for newbies right now. Thomas Cook are one of the more desirable outfits to get into. I would cut my own arm off if I were a newbie and so desperate to get into this game, rather than self sponsor. And yes, if anyone from TCX would like to offer me the same terms, we'll have to talk a bit, cos the lack of arm might have class 1 repercussions, but the offer stands!

Make no mistake, the major selling point of this is the job offer (all things being equal) at the end of the training. Believe me and the hundreds of other low houred unemployed fATPLs out there....that is worth a huge amount and you should NOT underestimate the value of that alone, regardless of the mentoring - just having a job to go to is worth it.

It's not a perfect offer, no. But it IS a hell of a lot better than any other scheme out there that I've seen and it IS out there.
Kudos to TCX....they are doing something very few others in Euroland are and I find it appauling that anyone is dumb enough to think it should be ignored because of the cost (on the basis they believe they can avoid an £81k bill for flight training anyway), or criticising TCX for doing it.
Wake up and smell the coffee people. Jeez.

[barker987]

i was looking to go modular (btw im still at school so have got a couple of years before i want to train), but how long does it take to pay of £81,000? on fo wadges as i know they are not that high but £37 000 at thomas cook doesnt seem that bad

[lander66]

I think as long as you have an FO job, paying off the debt is not a problem. You should be more worried about the possibility of losing your job and being dumped in it. Oh and getting the loan in the first place, I mean who is going to loan out £81K?

[hazholmes]

Applied. Best of luck to everyone.

[andrew152]

has anybody had any response from TCX yet?

[hazholmes]

Applications still being accepted until tomorrow so you'd think they'd wait until at least the scheme was closed until giving any feedback, in my opinion.

[nickyboy007]

Just got an e-mail for stage 2, got to submit answers to the questionnaire within 3 days.


Good Luck to all.

[richw626]

Same here, stage 2 questions...

Good luck all! :)

[nicky86]

Got the same email, to fill in questionnaire and submit within in 3 days.

Good Luck to everyone too.

[greyb33]

Just had the questions emailed aswell. Fingers crossed!!!

Greyb33

[historyftw]

anyone not get to stage 2?

[nicky86]

Anyon think its just us? :D

[rleungz]

I have...But I can't afford to fund the course :ugh:

[historyftw]

The way I understood it was that they sponsored you and thus you could get a bank loan for the amount required and you get paid during training then a guaranteed job afterwards? So you dont really need any money now.

[historyftw]

I think everyone should check their candidate file

https://thomascook.taleo.net/careersection/4/jobapply.ftl?lang=en&job=45460

I checked mine and even though I got the email offering stage 2 my candidate file states

"Thank you for sending us your online job submission. Unfortunately, the information you provided do not satisfy the minimum requirements for this position and we are unable to consider you for employment at this time."

I will check this tomorrow.

[the ace of spades]

i'd hate that.... not sure if they want you or not.. ;)

if you think that you are sponsored.... and that you go get a bank loan.... and that you dont need any money behind you because they are giving you a grand a month while training and that this will all be fine and dandy, then, the best thing you can you can do is go by what it says on your canditate profile thingy.... :ok:

[nicky86]

Hi Scott,

My profile says skills assessment scheduled????

You should def check it asap.

cheers

nicky

[flyhiigh]

"The BBVA loan scheme requires that security on the loan is provided. If you cannot raise security on the full amount FTE may assist you to raise the level of security required".

To put your parents propertys as security feels really sad and selfish...So does anyone know what the statement above really means??

Since TC is a little different scheme, is it really required to leave a security bond? If it is, does anyone know how much FTE could assist with?

Let say you apply for a loan at bbva, 40.000£, does anyone have any clue of how much the ev. security bond then must be to get the loan accepted? :ooh:

Lets speak finance, I guess most wonder this part.

(OBS! I have tried to reach H-Recources, but figured out maybe ppl here knew)

Thanks! :ok:

[MFB]

"The BBVA loan scheme requires that security on the loan is provided. If you cannot raise security on the full amount FTE may assist you to raise the level of security required".

Excuse the ignorance but what is the BBCA loan scheme and who are the FTE?

Does anyone know if there are any high street banks out there who would help out with the £80k loan required?

Also, there seems to be a significant lack of information in terms of total cost to the cadet, salaries etc. Is this actually on Thomas Cook's website and I'm missing it?

[flyhiigh]

FTE Jerez: Finance (http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/finance.php)

here you go

[the ace of spades]

did you make it to phase 2 of selection?

[historyftw]

Anyone else get the phase 2 email but have something different on the TC candidate profile page?

[Tana-Airlines]

Hi Guys,

I have also received the email for the Stage 2 with the questionnaire. Indeed, the finance thing scares me, but first we need to get through! Which is not gonna be easy to be honest! To many competitors for a few places...
Good luck to y'all!

[markp123]

I've got my PPL and done the ATPL theory exams....does anybody know if this scheme would require me to do the whole lot again from scratch? I'm thinking they'd try and make me do that.........which i reaaally don't wana be doing!

Cheersss

[flyhiigh]

I think you will have to redo the ATPL theory and some PPL too. I think you could get 20h reduced on the PPL training, but the rest might redo.

[barker987]

if you get £1000 a month during training couldnt you use this to pay for you accomodation monthly, becuase then the course would only cost £66,000, which means you dont have to get as big as loan?

[Spike001]

It would be very silly to redo the PPL/Night/IMC/ATPL theory, if you already have those, given the time and extra cost to the company. It's far cheaper to get an instructor to put you through your paces and ensure your up to the standard they want before they move you onto the next phase of training.

Having those shows extra commitment and motivation, but equally someone with no flying experience may fit what they are after.

Give it a shot and wait and see.... :ok:

[Tana-Airlines]

Hey Rwoodz,

You could find this information on the FTE Jerez website but the webpage is not available anymore. And if I remember well, those £1000 are repayable once we get the job, right?

If anyone knows how to reach this webpage again... Because there was some other useful info too!

There will be loooooaads of applicants, I live in UK but am from France and I know already quite a lot of French guys who applied too.

I will personally send the questionnaire back tomorrow.

Dom

[ndllx4]

Does anyone know when the assessment day dates are if you get through to it? And Im assuming there are personal interviews at some point in august if successful?

[andrew152]

I am finding it extremely frustrating that so many people have applied for this scheme and not even bothered to read the information provided by thomas cook and FTE.

If you had read all of the information provided by TCX and FTE then you would not have to ask questions such as:

"Does anyone know when the assessment day dates are if you get through to it? And Im assuming there are personal interviews at some point in august if successful? "


If you get passed the first stage of selection between 24th and 27th of July in Peterborough then you may be invited to an interview in Manchester between 13th and 17th of August I believe, with the course starting in November. You will be paid £1,000 a month which is repayable.

If you are applying for this scheme and take it seriously then you should have the common sense to read all of the information which is readily available. I think alot of you guys really need to pull the finger out and start doing a bit of leg work for yourself and stop expecting everyone to provide you with all of the information.

[flyhiigh]

Stage 1 interviews are between 23-27 July, if successfull I think the second tests are in the mid of august.

If selected, startdate 12 november! :ok:

Good luck!

[New FO]

My nephew is applying for this scheme. I fly but went through selection a long while ago now. Anyone know of anywhere you can get some training or support for the selection?

[abhishek_5sep]

does anyone know if there course fee includes the accomadation also

[hazholmes]

As someone posted earlier it doesn't take much effort to find these things out for yourself if you're taking this thing remotely serious.

But just incase, here you go FTE Jerez: Integrated JAR ATPL Course (http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/integrated/atpl.php)

[abhishek_5sep]

thanx mate got the required info........

[Tana-Airlines]

Andrew152,

23rd to 27th July --> Phase 3 - Interviews in Peterborough if Phase 2 successful
13th to 17th August --> Phase 4 - Assessment in Jerez (if I remember well) with PILAPT, maths etc etc...

If some people still ask questions, I think it is because the information about this scheme is not available anymore on FTE Jerez website. They explained everything about the programme. We don't have much info on TCX website unfortunately.

Has anyone been invited for Phase 3 yet?

Cheers

[flyhiigh]

This is a thread, questions are allowed..otherwise what would we do on this thread? Theres info of almost everything in the net, but lets state that "no questions are bad questions" and keep the attitude up aight! :ok:

Its easier to find out this way for some ppl i guess..

However,

Im also waitiing for reply. I think we shall know this week!

Good evening!

[markp123]

Contacted them today and was told PPL and ATPL theory would all have to be re-done. Bit ridiculous but I know where they're coming from. Not quite sure what "re-do" actually means, surely I aint going to get another PPL issued, and why the hell would i have to go to Gatwick or wherever again to sit the exams again when already passed them. :ugh:

Bit of a shame but nevermind, no way I'm paying for something i've already done, talk about a massive waste of money.

[bucket_and_spade]

Its easier to find out this way for some ppl i guess..


No, it's lazier to find out this way - why would you accept what some anonymous poster on here says over the actual info from the source? Especially when you're talking about such important topics as funding/accommodation, etc. Mind-boggling!

'andrew152' has it spot on.

'No questions are bad questions' is utter rubbish and an overused phrase - if the answers are 'hidden' in plain sight!

Right, I'm off to lie down in a dark room with my best mate Victor Meldrew... grumble, grumble...

[Tana-Airlines]

Hey Mark,

Thank you for the information. I believe it is like most of Cadets schemes, they have an agreement with the FTO for a training programme and a price... The only thing you will save you get through is probably time... But definitely not money!

Good luck anyway!

[Spike001]

To be told that I need to do everything again, wasting 10yrs of effort will just slightly piss me off (I will reserve that for being told that personally during the interview I guess). I for one won't be willing to get into extra amounts of debt just because being done through FTE. ... it's sure cheaper for me to get the last bits done at FTE the modular route full time instead and then pay for a TR with Ryanair!

I should ask them for a refund on my current training if this happens.

I did send them an email with questions before applying and they just ignored them and directed me to the application form.

I'm currently treading wisely on this one.... :ugh:

[hazholmes]

I think its problem that we should worry about if we ever make it to the latter stages of selection but I too will hopefully have my PPL before the course start date, and I'm not intending on re-doing it! Once you have the license, you have the license, surely! Common sense will hopefully prevail. Some extra hours will be nice though.

It does state on the FTE website (see previous post for link) that students with a PPL will be entitled to a discount on the course price after a positive checkout with the CFI. Every little helps! Regards your atlp's I have no idea.

I'm purely speculating of course so could be way out. Like I say I'm more worried about actually getting to phase 3 over anything else!

[jgearie]

Just been sent the email with the questionnaire. Does anyone know what type of tests would be involved at the stage 3?

[Tana-Airlines]

Hey guys,

How long is the questionnaire completed for you? Does it have to be short and simple (as they have many applicants, so many questionnaire to read), or do we have to develop the answers properly. How many words or lines do you approx have per question?

Im just wondering I did write too much, Im a bit scared they won't even read it through.

And when do you reckon we should get a call or an email then?

Cheers!

[the ace of spades]

i completed it at just under 2000 words.... everyone to themselves though.... this thread has really gone down hill since the questionaires were mailed out. its full of the 'i'm new here' 's and they are really bugging me now with their stupid lazy questioning. if you are any way serious about this you would not be asking the basic questions which answers to are found easier than posting here!!

but i suppose the questionaire might eliminate a good few of them (well hopefully anyways) and then we can get back to an inteligent exchange of views, opinions and real gen....

be good or be gone.... :ok:

t a o s

[Tana-Airlines]

Thanks mate, indeed my question might sound stupid for you because it is actually the first time I'm applying for a cadets scheme and I've never done any questionnaire of FTO before. And unfortunately, I could not find any answer to this question on Pprune.

And by the way, you feel really confident, I really hope you will go through and you won't be part of the "good few of them" who will be eliminated! :ok:

Let us know anyway!

[the ace of spades]

your question was a good one.. it was something i wondered about myself when filling out the questionaire.. it is all the rest of the posts here over the weekend that are killing me slowly.. this is my first time to apply for a cadet scheme competition too and good luck to you..

ps. how many words are you looking like doing it in? pm..

[Tana-Airlines]

I have 7 pages in all... which is quite a lot! Its basically about a question per page. And I feel that I'm concise for most of the questions! :ugh:

Anyway, it's done now, let's wait for their call or email!

Good luck mate!

[New FO]

My question went unanswered ysterday! However- to pass on to anyone who is serious about this application. I found a mentoring company last night who helped no end! I signed up at FL500. com and within the hour was on the phone to a current TC pilot who graduated FTE. Got loads of real good inside info, which naturally I'll post on here.

[Tana-Airlines]

New FO,

That's brilliant I did not know there were this kind of companies in UK! I had a quick look on FL500.com, looks interesting. But what kind of information do they give you? Is it more about the selection process? or about FTE? or about the programme itself?
Cheers

[Bealzebub]

All of which you can probably get on this site for nothing if you ask the questions you want answers to. However I do like the idea of trousering £10 a pop!

[New FO]

Hey, I know it's easy to be pessimistic! However, a tenner is nothing compared to what I would pay to help Jim get through this selection!

To give you a bit more info. I signed him up for a tenner a month. There's no min contract. In return we have access by pre booked phone call and email (no max) to a mentor who is a current operational FO who is well read in the arena of traning and of course their prospective airline. Our mentor is a TC pilot who graduated FTE. He's happy to talk about anything and if there's anything he doesnt know, he will go away and find out. The interview prep is vital I'd say.

I believe there's also a discount card on the way which looks as though it'll save us more than the tenner anyway. The TC guy said hes been innundated with new club members since the announcement.


I fly myself and am up to scratch with airline proceadures but well out of touch with the FTOs and how to best succeed at these highly competetive interviews.

Good luck!
NFO

[flygirl88]

Hi there! I can add to this. I speak to John, FO mentor at FL500 nrli every week. He calls me so I don't use phone bill. He seems to know a lot of inside info and leads! I now have a list of potential questions and model answers. It's been interesting to find out the commercial aspects and pressures on pilots and I think even a respect for that and understanding that fuel decisions and flap decisions have an impact, will be useful in the interview. For what it's worth, I've just booked a couple of trial lessons through them as well at a decent discount. If anyone wants to ask anything - don't hesitate. Looking forward to the selection process!

[Jetdriver]

That is excellent news flygirl88. It is also fantastic that you not only share the same opinion as New FO but you also appear to be sharing the same computer!

So enough of this shameless self promotion. Advertising needs to go through the correct (to be paid for) links.

Caveat emptor.

[flyhiigh]

Well, when ppl ask questions in the forum, they usually seem to get answes and links (url), which is gr8. Why wouldnt someone help?

Haha, pilots are famous for being a little lazy :ok: aswell as hardworkers!

[KandiFloss]

Haha, pilots are famous for being a little lazy http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif aswell as hardworkers!

I think you've just contradicted yourself in the same sentence :rolleyes:

I hope that you don't have that attitude when ... IF ... you get into a RHS

[flyhiigh]

Haha..yeah your right, a little wrong on that one, but heard a friend whos actually a TC pilot stating that (as a joke) and I loved it :)

But ofcourse, becoming a pilot is not easy @ all.

Good luck!

[clanger32]

flyhigh,
You may do well to remember that these forums are most likely monitored by if not airline management, then at least senior crew in the airlines you comment on.

I know (or at least hope!) you were joking, but if I were looking to apply for what is likely to be an enormously competitive cadet scheme, I would be very very very careful indeed to show myself as nothing but hardworking, dedicated and capable of finding the answers for myself.

[nickyboy007]

I have just got back from selection with FTE yesterday in Jerez I am pleased to say I passed. I had my debrief with the head of training Derrick Earp. He did mention unlike the Flybe schemes where the applicants just sit the FTE selection test, in addition to this Thomson will be carrying out there own Psychometric testing, which is still to be clarified. According to Derrick the amount of applicants for this scheme has been through the roof. Only the top percentile of candidates will be considered. You really should be aiming for 85-100% in the multiple choice exams combined with high Pillapt scores. Overall I was very impressed with the operation at FTE and the feedback I got was excellent. The students seam happy, and a great place to spend 14 months.

Best of luck with your applications. Please PM me if you have any specific questions.

Nick

[flyhiigh]

Yupp, as stated, a joke! :)

You are right in every point though clanger. Ofcourse it will be very competetive but I beleive a relaxed and happy or "jokeable" approach to everything releases the pressure a´bit. Do not take everything TOOO seriously, then you only make it hard for your self. And if you come to the assesment day, thinking that its very hard and competetive, it will probably be as you think.

Or you come relaxed, well prepared and know there are other opportunities in worst case. :ok:

This sheme is indeed fantastic, and so are most pilot educations I beleive! If you can´t have a laugh for some statements and be relaxed but still focused for it, you might put to much pressure in you self, and if you fail, you might get depressed.

Good luck on the preperation,
have a nice one

[flyhiigh]

Big congratz to you buddy! :ok:

[historyftw]

No surprise that recruitment consultants and senior managers would check sites like this perfect way to scout future employees!

I sent off my question answers earl this morning, i wonder how many people they are taking to the next stage?

Also many people on this thread have been very cautious about the scheme TC are offering if it's not as good as they say why is it so popular? And aside from the job at the end of it what separates it from just applying to the FTE yourself? It was my understanding that they help you gain funding my sponsoring your finance application. Before I get criticism as alot o people have posting on here - I've read everything I could have in regards to information about the scheme.

[historyftw]

Apologies for the spelling and grammar above was posting off my phone.

[EGCC4284]

in addition to this Thomson will be carrying out there own Psychometric testing, which is still to be clarified

Nickyboy007

You said Thomson, did you mean to say Thomson??? Did you mean Thomas Cook

[FANS]

As you're a TCX pilot you'll go straight onto their salary band - so on £40k+ when on your secondment period.

This means you don't really need to worry about loan repayments, which is only fair enough when that's the company employing you and given that TCX want you to spend your career with them, they aren't interested in saving the pennies when you most need them.

[Polarhero]

Two things to point out after dipping into here out of curiosity.

Clanger is correct the walls do have ears, so try not say the wrong things. It might just be the one thing that differentiates two applications ( oh and try not to call them Thomson, does not go down well calling them by the oppositions name)

FANS i don't think cadets start on £40k+.

Good luck.
:ok:

[nickyboy007]

EGCC4284

Correction Thomas Cook

FANS

As I was told at FTE....For starters Thomas Cook will need to get there £14,000 which you receive as £1000 per month throughout training, not to mention the two type ratings. Cadet's wont start on £40k when they join Thomas Cook.


Nick

[greyb33]

Hi All,

I know a Thomas Cook pilot who gained a place on the sponsorship course the company conducted in 2005 with OAA, and he said to me in his first year after training he earned £44,000. So it does seem that Thomas Cook pay you well from the moment you start.

Greyb33

[FL370 Officeboy]

Whilst flying at flybe, cadets will be paid a flybe salary by TCX...so don't get too excited at visions of £40K+ guys!

[Monkeyboy748]

Have you been told this?

[clanger32]

Fly high,
Just so you know, I'm NOT shaping up to apply for this scheme - I'm already qualified. I'm trying to impart information based on reaching the final round of a previous cadet scheme (which guttingly I didn't quite get).

You may wish to take a look at the OAA forum today, where their chief moderator has just noted that in one previous scheme the sponsoring company noted and looked unfavourably on people choosing an avatar of a different type to the that which they operate....Trust me, you will be against hundreds of people for this opportunity - use ANY chance to improve your own hopes.

Monkeyboy:
As noted above, this scheme was not applicable for me, hence I didn't read the Ts&Cs *(although I would assuredly apply if I weren't already done), but you may wish to check this out:
Thomas Cook Airlines (UK jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Thomas_Cook_Airlines_(UK))

The "cadet" salary grade is there for a reason and I believe is very similar to the salary paid to previous sponsored cadets. I would base MY decisions on these numbers and treat anything further as a bonus.

[Stu_88]

That link doesn't seem to work........

[hazholmes]

(Clanger, you beat me to it)

Try this one Stu...

Thomas Cook Airlines (UK) jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Thomas_Cook_Airlines_(UK))

[Stu_88]

Yeah cheers mate that works. I actually work for Thomas Cook anyway, just being nosey and seeing what my mates get!! ;)

[Tana-Airlines]

Really interesting website! Thanks hazholmes. :ok:

[Polarhero]

I would take anything from PPJN with a pinch of salt, it's not always correct.

From what i understand the cadet pay scales start at aprox £25-26K and top out at £40k after a number of years.

:ok:

[Stu_88]

Haha Ron you caught me out mate!! Not that we have the most inconspicuous names haha

[Stu_88]

By the way Ron, Lisa is sending out the Stage 3 invites as of tomorrow :ok: good luck matey!!

[flyme19]

hi,

I olny got sent the phase 2 questions on Monday and i'm sending them back tonight as you have 3 days to do them.

I hope i'm not too late :rolleyes:

[historyftw]

Indeed fingers crossed! Good luck everyone!

Not getting my hopes up too much! My childhood dream hangs in the balance...but oh well!

[samd89]

Hi Guys,

I checked the status of my application online a few days ago and noticed that it says "Skills Assessment Scheduled" but I haven't received the email containing the questionnaire :confused: any ideas what might have happened?

Regards,
Sam

[Tana-Airlines]

Hi Samd89,

As they deal with hundreds of applications I would say just wait a bit before ringing or emailing them! Maybe they are still processing some Stage 1 applications.

Regards

[nicky86]

Hi all, I sent the questionaire back on Friday night and I haven't heard anything yet.I will continue nail biting Anyone else heard back yet?

[flyhiigh]

not heard anything either, it might come today or tomorrow it seems...:bored:

good luck! :ok:

[flyhiigh]

Since the tests will be soon, you should have received the questionaire.

Give them a call, or send an e-mail. It´s not bad to do so, it only shows that your interested! :ok:

But also check you "spambox" etc. You should really check it up!

Wish you the best!

[flyme19]

Hi everyone,

I presume that we should hear From them in the next few days as the next phase of the application process is not too far away!
Saying that, I only sent my answers back last night as I was only sent them on monday, so it might take a few extra days until we hear anything.

Best of luck to everyone who has applied :)

[Stu_88]

Ahh Ron dont worry about it you'll be fine. Im not sure they'll be that bothered about you missing a full stop here or a comma there.......missng the runway though........:=

Awww everyone seems so nervous on here about this. Guys and girls just calm down, read the posts, if no-one on here has stage 3 invites then the chances are the havent been sent out yet......

There are a lot of applicants so it's obviously going to take time

Good luck all

[nicky86]

Stu.......patience is a virtue i suppose? haha.

I have to agree with you, it will take time but its like anything.....i want to know asap. :rolleyes:

thanks for the luck

:cool:

[Tana-Airlines]

Ahah true! Let's relax now...

Good luck! :ok:

[historyftw]

Anyone heard anything back yet?

xx

[Tana-Airlines]

Don't worry mate, as soon as someone gets a call or an email, you'll see it here!
Now relax... if you can... :ugh:

Take care

[smangnall]

Has anybody received a stage 3 invite yet? I thought they would have been sent out by now considering the assessments start on Friday! Then again they are probably overwhelmed with applications. I am sure someone will post here once they have one, will keep my ear to the ground.:ok:

[whimsahoy]

Hi,

I am also a female aged 20. Still heard nothing unfortunately I have emailed and all i got was a we received your questions sort of response, So I think they're enormously busy. Its just annoying for those who have to arrange flights last week my flights would have been £70 now they're £300 :{ I just hope it isnt one of these things where if you dont get through you'll get a letter about 100 years later lol good luck :D

[markp123]

Ha, know the feeling! Used to fly between UK and ireland quite often. One day the price would be quite resonable...would wait another day to see if it went down anymore, but usually would double or something.... :mad:
Like you said, must be so many applicants, but surely they should cater for people in your position, assessments spread over 4 days so might be given a later date.

[Tana-Airlines]

Just got a call from TCX... I'm invited for Stage 3 on Sat 24th July, between 8 and 8.30am!!!! :ok:

I'm now waiting for the email with all the details and materials!

Good luck people!!!

[samd89]

Does anybody here have the number for the HR dept. at TC? My online application says I've been scheduled for assessment but I still haven't received the questionnaire?! :{

I've checked my spam folder and it's not there. When I check online it says that the only email they've sent is the one confirming they received my application. I'm worried that I may have been forgotten :sad:

Regards,
Sam