Ground Studies Full Time London Met Or..? All Advice Welcomed

[MacGB]

Hi Everyone,

I hope you're all doing well.

I'm about to start my theory for the ATPL's

I have heard generally good things about London but the posts seems quite dated around the 2000-2005ish era.

I am tending to lean towards London Met. Does anyone here have any current reviews/ opinions on London Met who may have finished their course there in the last year or two?

I would like to know what people think about Oxford for the ground school full time, do you get side-lined compared to integrated students?

Lots of people rec'mend Oxford books/CDs therefore I think maybe I should go there to start with?

People from London or Oxford or who have heard things please help a future student make his decision! :)

[MagicTiger]

London Met is good, however no matter how you think of it, it will be hard work. Phase 1 will come us a shock for most, as you are not prepared for the workload presented for you.
London Met has a revision set for maths and physics, get the Oxford discs too, and forget anything else you have might have done for the moment.
What books you have for the ATPL?
Start reading some of the subjects, no use to start anything with Bristol until at least 4 weeks into the course.

Phase 1 has 3 subjects, POF, Performance and AGK (AGK = 4 different subjects) It is hard if you havent studied for some time, you will have approx. 6 - 7 hours at school, and you will need to start revising every afternoon around 1-2 hours the first few weeks, then 2 to 4 hours the last 4 - 5 weeks of phase 1. It is not hard, but it is so much information, details you just have to remember. POF is probably the hardest, because of tricky questions, AGK - electrics,pistons, gasturbines and airframes/systems - a large amount of stuff to learn, but not to complicated.
Performance is a POF light version + loads of crappy CAP graphs.

The teachers for AGK and Performance was very good, POF I heard there will be changes, and from what I have heard he will be very good too.

Phase 2, seems to be the hardest, Gen Nav, Instruments, Radio Nav, Com 1 & 2 and Air Law, Gen Nav and Instruments require much work, but the rest are easy. Again all teachers on these subjects was very good, exception Radio Nav was a little messy, because change of teachers all the time. Still to get good, you need to do 3 - 4 hours revision after school, unless you are a natural talented genie. Many did try that style, little revision time, and believe me, not comparable to GSCE's. If you dont understand the basics, you will struggle.

Phase 3, was the hardest for me, Mass Balance, easy one, Flight Planning, just very tiring experience, a lot of work, I enjoyed Flight Planning the most, but was a marathon of an exam. Then you had Meteorology, probably the hardest subject of all - 90 questions in the exam, but use the Oxford CD in addition to the class room and you will be fine. Then there was Human Perfomance, this I found the most/least interesting - problem both Met and HP have so many feedback questions, so it is very hard to revise.
Finally Ops Procedures, who invented this I dont know, a mix of Gen Nav, Air Law, Instruments and AGK. For sure not an easy subject, but some of it very interesting.

You normally have around 9 weeks between each exam, from start of course, phase 2 and 3 was finish after approx. 4 - 5 weeks, just to give you an idea of the phase of the course. In phase 1, only 3 of 14 passed all the first 3 exams, phase 2 was a little better, I think it was 4 of 8, 6 had fallen away. In phase 3 we was only 4 left of the original who passed all the exams last in the last phase.
The other had not given up, but they was not ready to complete the exams, and was doing few exams every time, but trying to avoid some of the harder ones to the end.

We where 3.5 people, of 14, who completed the course and passed all the exams. We were probably the only ones following the advice of London Met regarding the revising time after school. We all got very high scores, 95 to 98% - average.
So if you are prepared to work hard, and have the time to work hard, London Met is a good choice to finish the exams within 6 months, if not, you are wasting your money and time.

[MacGB]

Thanks MagicTiger.
First of all please let me thank you for your detailed, quick and informative reply and congrats on passing all of the exams :ok: what stage are you at now?

Your review sounds impressive however I am slightly worried that only 3 out of 14 passed 1st time/all exams, I thought the 1st time pass rate at London was in the high 80's/90s? Am I missing something?

I am prepared to work hard and I have got all the time in the world for them, I have left my job to pursue my ambition.

I currently have the Jep'son books around 2004 time that were published with Atlantic, these good enough or you suggest other ones?

Before the course did you have a very good sound knowledge of Maths and Physics and is the level in the course very demanding? You said

Many did try that style, little revision time, and believe me, not comparable to GSCE's. If you dont understand the basics, you will struggle.

I am slightly confused, do you mean the basics of GCSE or the basics that London will teach you in the classroom?

Do you have any info from yourself or others to compare London to Oxford for Ground school only? My only thought is that lots of people say try an Oxford CD etc, and with this in mind, I think... Should I go there to start with?

PS. What books do they use at London, are they good? Do they use computer aided information as well? Do they have 'in house' progress tests as well?

Thanks Very Much.

[MagicTiger]

First the ones who did not pass, did not put the work required to pass, that was the main reason. You will notice not everybody has the same motivation, not everybody is paying for the course themselves, not everybody is 100% there to pass their exams. Also the workload at the start will seem overwhelming.

All the maths and physics you need, they will normally show you as you go along. Of course an advantage to have some basic knowledge, but no need to be Einstein.

I have seen some of the Jeppesen books, they seem ok, maybe some subject they might be a little outdated now, but not to bad. I would recommend the Oxford books and CBT, specially for Met, AGK and Electrics.

Some subjects are easy/straight feedback questions, others are more work to understand.
If you are prepared to put the hours in also after classes you will be fine. The pass rate I mentioned was first time passes in all subjects at each phase. You can not blame the school if some people just not put the work or effort in which is required, that's the main reason our class did not look to great.
The school can give you the tools, it is up to you to make the best out of it.

Regarding the books, hmm...they use the Nordian books, they included in the course. To be honest I do not like them, I did hardly use them during the whole course. If you can get the Oxford books, I would recommend them, as they are better. Still negative with Oxford books is that you get to much information, more then you need.

[MacGB]

Thanks Magic,

If you had your time again would you have gone elsewhere?

What do you think about my point that if you rec'mend Oxford material, would it be best to go there in the first place?

[MagicTiger]

To be honest I would not have done it different. I am living close to London, so this was deciding factor. Distance learning was not option for me, as I felt I needed the push to get subject done in time.
Many different schools use the Oxford material, some use the Nordian (KLM & London Met)
I would not want relocate, just to do the ground school. End of the day, you will have the same exam.
Another major advantage with London Met, is the 3 phases, it is just perfect. I am very happy I did not need to do all in 2 sittings.

If you fail any of your exams in these 3 phases, you still have 3 sittings left on each exam, if you leave it until the end.
However I am sure the same would be for Oxford, if you do not bother to put in the effort, you will not pass either. I would not blame the Nordian books for the people who did not pass, it was mostly lack of effort.
Your Jeppesen books, are based on the Oxford model, as Oxford previously had the books with Jeppesen, but then decided to make their own.

If you live in London area, I would just to the London Met course, I have heard Oxford is good, but you maybe go to much in depth, compared to what is required for your exams. I will rather enjoy going more in depth now afterwards, knowing those 14 exams are done and over with.

More important than the school you choose, is that you start revising with Bristol QB, this will help you greatly improve your scores. The QB so you understand how the questions are composed, some subjects you will memorize much, others you have to understand the subject to get the full use.

Also price is a factor, not sure what Oxford price is now, but at London Met I think this is approx. £3000 incl. all the books. (You can sell the books after course completed)
Overall I was happy, also at Oxford, dont think they give you CBT as part of the course, and anyway the extra money saved on the course I would rather use to do some flying.

[MacGB]

Hey Magic, Hope you're well :)

I guess my final questions to you would be...

Did you finish your exams recently at London?

Are the Nordian books they use up to date? (latest ones)

Do they regularly use in-house tests to monitor your progress? (and if so (hope so) did you find these harder than the real thing like most mocks)

Do you use any computer aided instruction there? or is it just being spoken at and reading the book?

Are the teachers very approachable if you are stuck on certain aspects?

You said you used Oxford Material/Books as well, If I buy the whole set of Oxford books and London met use Nordian, how easy is it to study from the Oxford ones, I mean do the lectures say we're looking at pg 5 - 15 in Nordian Flight planning and I assume you wouldn't bother taking your Oxford books into the class you would just look at them at home?

If you would be kind enough to answer those for me then I think I'm set!

Thank you.

PS. What is the next step on your path now you've finished the ATPLs?