are you proud to be a pilot?

[flyhelico]

damn yes, I am proud to be a pilot.
I paid all my license, I fly for more than 20 years, and I am still looking to fly something new or ad a rating on my license.

I am an aviator, a pilot, and it' s not these monkeys in the aviation who will put me down. I fly for money, I feel I am needed, and I deliver an excellent job. I love to fly anything! small to big, it doesn't matter.

I am what we call a true pilot.
are you one? are you proud of your profession?

[SloppyJoe]

Slightly odd thread. I think there are many many people out there who are incredibly proud to be pilots, tell all their friends and always make a fuss about what they do (not saying you are like that) the problem is I expect everyone who is paying to fly 320's 737's etc or who have accepted laughable conditions just to be able to say "I am an airline pilot" make up a vast number of these "proud" pilots. Its funny though as these guys have a disease, mental problems and should not be proud, they should be ashamed of what they are doing.

I am proud of what I do, sure, it was hard to get here but I made it and believe I do a good job. I think if you made it without hurting the industry, know your stuff and are professional about your job you deserve to feel proud as it is not an easy industry to get into or do well in. I often feel like it is just a job, I expect it gets like that for many but that goes away the second I am standing on the apron looking up at that monster and I don't even really get to fly it yet :-) Starts feeling like just a job again once sitting there bored 7 hours into the flight but yeah I am proud of what I do.

[Der absolute Hammer]

'Very strange piece of dangerous jungle down there'
as Auntie Amelia might have said!

But that was in the old days of aviation, before it became a life style choice but when there were fliers around. Altogether a better word for what sums up some in our own minds perhaps.

Now a days, becoming a pilot is like buying a commission in the military in the eighteen hundreds or even the last century. It is just the same, the amount of money you have decides how far up in the commissioned ranks you can start yourself off. Let's say that an A320 rating makes you a Colonel and so work on down to a B737 which commissions in at a Lieutenancy? Then you get the new officers who decide how they are going to run their campaigns. Those could be called the P2F officers. Those guys buy their cavalry seats as the equivalent of an aide de camp. The experience might come with time but it is not necessarily earned. It comes in a candy wrapper with Ben Franklin on the paper.
So today, is flying a profession? Well, were the men who bought commissions in the old European armies professional soldiers? If you answer yes to that question, then who are the monkeys out there?

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

A) "What do you do for a living?"

B) "I'm a pilot"

A) "You don't do much do you, You just sit there?"
"The plane takes off and lands by itself doesn't it"
"Doesn't the computer do everything?"
"Isn't it boring, just sitting there?"
"I was going to do that but the money is crap isn't it?"
"How safe are ryanair, I hear they only employ the cheapest rubbish pilots"

B)

A) " I work in an office, I'm really important, it's really exciting etc"

[EAM]

I am an aviator, a pilot, and it' s not these monkeys in the aviation who will put me down. I fly for money, I feel I am needed, and I deliver an excellent job. I love to fly anything! small to big, it doesn't matter.

sounds a bit like a line of lyrics, a little bit like "The Joker" :}

[Cloud Bunny]

My version:
A) What do you do?

B) I'm an Airline Pilot

A) Oh, wow fantastic (looks suitably impressed). Who do you work for?

B) Ryanair

A) Oh. (Now looks like I just told him I'm a kiddy fiddler). :ugh:

In answer to the original question, I love my job but with the current situation with all these plebs paying to fly and destroying the lives of the rest of us then no I'm not proud of the profession.

[411A]

In answer to the original question, I love my job but with the current situation with all these plebs paying to fly and destroying the lives of the rest of us then no I'm not proud of the profession.

OTOH, I pay no attention to these younger guys...if they want to pay, that is their privilege.
Having said this, I'm a senior guy, and when the company calles and says...'I hope you are available', I say....'of course I am, same daily rate as before?'
The company says...'yes, and maybe more.'
I say...'be there in three days.'

A win/win scenario.

[Global Warrior]

Im too lazy to work and too scared to steal......... what else can i do?

[5 RINGS]

yesterday Mr Computer wouldn't play ball...

Mr Aircraft still had to earn its living and then was manually flown for 4 sectors by its kind and keen crew.

I'm very proud indeed and drove back home with a great feeling of well deserved salary.

[superced]

iam NOT proud of this profession.

[Oyindo]

gone to the dogs!!!! Not very many happy bunnies out there these days. Get rid to the bean counters

[3bars]

I'm a bus driver ....only on less pay:ugh:

[DB6]

Yes. Nothing I'd rather be.

[dboy]

Proud?? In the beginning yes. And now i'm talking about 3.5 years ago. But now??? If i can have a job for the same money and having a more regular job, i would not hesitate for a second. T & C going down, every year medical, opc's, english prof checks and all that stuff, no, it makes me every time wonder why i'm still doing this job.

[petermcleland]

I was a Royal Air Force jet fighter pilot for 12 years...Then a British Airways pilot for 22 years. Now I'm retired and 77 years old.

When I look back I have to say that the best time of my life was in the RAF and I just loved it :)

[The Big Easy]

Proud........not anymore. The big orange machine kicked the pride out of me!

[captjns]

Where else can you get paid for doing something that you love. Sure beats working for a living:ok::O. The good old airline ID which gets me a discounts on hotels, food, car rentals around the world:ok:.

[Pilot Positive]

If you love flying then this is the place to be! :ok:

If you want paying, then go become a lawyer....;)

[UAV689]

Yes the job has t and c beaten down, but you most surely be proud of your job! I know there are charity workers paid peanuts that are hugely proud of their job!

You dont need to be paid a lot to be proud of your job and achievements!

Yes you are not paid as what you were 10 yrs ago, but every day you climb aboard a hugely expensive piece of kit, fly the bucket and spade brigade to costa del sol, safely and on time. No matter how grim and miserable the weather is, you climb through it into blue sunshine. That is an achievement, and ask anyone that sits at a desk full time (I have been staring at the same spreadsheet since 7am, 12 hrs ago, and get paid less!) and they would swap their left nut to be in your office in the sky

[Hahn]

Proud? One day I will set the parking brake for good and if I did not bend the metal and hurt or killed someone, this will be the day when I am proud to be a pilot. Not before.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Yes I am proud! And at least i did'nt have to or choose to take part in this pay 2 fly bull****! Pay for a TR??!! Get real!

[Muvo85]

My version:
A) What do you do?

B) I'm an Airline Pilot

A) Oh, wow fantastic (looks suitably impressed). Who do you work for?

B) Ryanair

A) Oh. (Now looks like I just told him I'm a kiddy fiddler).

I get a similar reaction but not because of the company I work for, it's the aircraft type that draws the demoralizing reaction from people.
When I tell people and they look up "Twin Otter" on-line and see it, they're like, "you paid 80k to fly that thing?!"
I don't feel a like of pride when I get this familiar reaction I think, I'm not sure how I feel but it doesn't make it seem all worthwhile that's for sure! :{

[Herod]

With forty years flying behind me, I feel that I joined a profession and retired from a trade. Sad, the way it's going.

[flyhelico]

guys, you got it wrong.

you can be proud of your profession but not of "this" profession.
"this" industry think they can dictate us, they think they can control us but they can't.
any pilots should be proud of his profession regardless of how hard it is. We will survive.
Don't devalue yourself for the orange dictator...one day we will have our justice. the force is with you!

(what a load of crap!!!:E)

[MidgetBoy]

I love flying, but I think you got it all wrong.

I'm proud, but whenever I tell anyone about it, they assume I'm all cocky about it.
Tbh though, a PPL or even a CPL is all about the money, so anyone can say they can fly a plane, and then you just never specify. :ok:

It's:
a) What do you do?
b) I'm an airline pilot.
a) Who do you work for?
b) I'm unemployed. :ugh:
a) Oh.

or,
b) I work for blah blah blah.
a) That's great!

(an hour later, he/she sees the basement/parent's attic that you're living in)

[Prawn2king4]

Maybe it's a case of a little bit of knowledge (on the punter's side) breeds contempt. In the olden days there was a mystique about flying that engendered if not respect, then at least curiosity.
Or maybe you guys are just flying the wrong type. Whenever I've mentioned that I fly helicopters, mainly offshore; then I've never had a demeaning response and I would hazard a guess and say that's true for most chopper pilots.
Guess we're still a skills based profession as opposed to computer managers; ;). Sorry, couldn't resist that!

[twentygrand]

Guys - don't get too sensitive about what the public think of your professional. I've watched brain surgery on the telly and it looks pretty easy - bet it isn't though. I'm retired after 40+ years, half RAF/airlines and I had a ball in both. What really matters to me is what the guys and girls, my fellow professionals, think of me - I don't care what the punters think.

[The_Pharoah]

put it this way...how many accountants do you hear say 'hey guys, I'm an accountant and I LOVE IT :}'. I've been an accountant for about 10 years and I friggin hate it. Quite a number of people I started out with are all in different careers (with teaching being the winner).

At the end of the day, if you love what you do then be proud of it. If you are NOT proud of what you do (ie. where you go to every day and spend most of your adult/awake hours there) then you should be looking at yourself and thinking..."wtf am I doing?".

[wince]

I remember feeling very proud when I landed after my initial instrument rating test for the CPL/IR and the examiner said: "Congratulations, you passed", also when I was down at the CAA to get my 737 rating on the licence or on my first line training flight landing in Malaga....oh and dealing with the odd emergency. Other than that, I feel, and airline managers/general public make me feel like a glorified bus driver (no disrespect to bus drivers intended).

[Wingswinger]

As technology improves, required piloting skills decrease

True. Until, one day, due to the fallibility of technology they are suddenly required and are found to have atrophied through cost-cutting, corner-cutting, idleness and neglect and as a result a lot of people die. Turkish 373 at Schipol. QED.

[lovezzin]

Agree with mra4eng...you want to talk about bein under-respected...try Enginering...ask Jo Bloggs what an Engineer is, the conversation is likely to be:

What is an Engineer?
-Someone who repairs cars
No, thats a mechanic :ugh:
-Someone who repairs your house boiler
No, thats a technician

Atleast you cant misuse/abuse the word "I'm a pilot"!!

Under-respect as a pilot does not come anywhere near under-respect for Design Engineering.

Whats the difference between an airline pilot and a Jet Engine?
- The Jet Engine stops whining after the flight! :}

[Wingswinger]

Whats the difference between an airline pilot and a Jet Engine?
- The Jet Engine stops whining after the flight!

So old, that one, it's got cobwebs on it. Besides that's cabin crew, not pilots. :}

[wobble2plank]

Whats the difference between an airline pilot and a Jet Engine?
- The Jet Engine stops whining after the flight!

I always thought that was the punchline to the 'Whats the difference between a Harrier and a Harrier pilot!' joke.

;)

[lovezzin]

I always thought that was the punchline to the 'Whats the difference between a Harrier and a Harrier pilot!' joke.


haha - I have always hear it in that form!! Despite my post above, Pilots are losing their perceived glamourous satus they were once grated and Salaries in line with this degradation of respect.

Again, if you look at Engineering...100 years ago, the Engineers were paid handsomely and were wealthy, I.Brunel, Lord Pirrie, T.Andews etc etc...now look at us :P obscurity and not razzle-dazzle!!

If i can have a job for the same money and having a more regular job, i would not hesitate for a second.

Thats the point....you wont find another job of the same "level" paying the same amount of money & expenses...with the way things seem with loco airlines, this is more likely, but those in flag carrier airlines - definately not!! Not saying Pilot Salaries are NOT worth it or that you dont deserve them....but....time to join the rest of the world!!

[Global Warrior]

Am i proud to be a Pilot.

Pride isnt my yardstick for measuring my profession.....Happiness is. And im bloody happy.

Im sorry to say this but the one thing that really made me want to shoot myself in the head when i flew in the airlines.......was my colleagues! Whinging whining negativity at every opportunity. Bitch Bitch Bitch. Pilots are their own worst enemies.

The reason the PROFESSION is going to pot is because of the present incumbents reluctance to stand up and make it better for the next generation. Im all right jack, sod the rest.

This profession has given me so much, i feel duty bound to give something back. Due to the negativity of the people that populate the profession, its going to be like pushing s**t uphill but i'll find a way.

[169west]

All of you must admit that being a pilot 20 years ago was a bit better then in those days in both the military and civilian aviation (economic crash and volcanos apart)! Said that the question is how can we bring new vigor to todays aviation?

[Pilot Positive]

Im sorry to say this but the one thing that really made me want to shoot myself in the head when i flew in the airlines.......was my colleagues! Whinging whining negativity at every opportunity.

I have to agree with GW. Some people just dont know how lucky they are...or perhaps they just took up flying for the wrong reasons (lots of them about)?

How do we bring back the vigor? Well the word "vigor" implies energy and I would say that we need to look at who we employ first. The FTO's have built up the expectation that every wannabee who pays their fees are deserved of a RHS position on a 80T jet within 3 months of completion.

Therefore, its a possibility that a lot of new guys are entering the industry for the wrong reasons ("dont I look good in uniform" mentality). If we could just sort those guys out then we might be able to bring back some integrity to our profession....

[LowFareFinder]

Well, 30 years ago, the sun came up and breaking through the clouds on a dull day to be greeted by glorious sunshine still remains.

However, the profession itself is in the gutter. Airline management is doing its best, I'm sure across the globe, to reduce salary costs and associated T&C's.

Unfortunately, the glamour still remains in misty eyed wannabes, with seemingly endless amounts of cash.

Pilots themselves are their own worst enemy - each will accept something to further themselves and no thought for others or the impact beyond even the end of the month. At my airline we had summer-only contracts, 70% contracts, and people were queuing up to take them - 100s of applications. Unfortunate consequences for those in the company who are now in the accountants gun-sights.

We are all becoming blue-collar workers. The job is hard, and it's getting harder. The only really depressing thought is the complete idiots who run the company.

[EGHH]

I have to agree with GW. Some people just dont know how lucky they are...or perhaps they just took up flying for the wrong reasons (lots of them about)?This reminds me of an old anecdote I'm sure everyone has heard loads of times - I can't remember where it comes from and I'm likely to be paraphrasing somewhat, so bear with me...

On a glorious sunny afternoon a man is sat in his deckchair, surveying his freshly mown lawn as a light aircraft flies overhead. "Man, I wish I was up there, I bet it's a beautiful day to fly" he thinks. Not long afterwards, the light aircraft pilot happens to spot a 747 flying far overhead on the way to some exotic location. The light aircraft pilot thinks to himself "Damn, I can't wait for the day when I get to fly a big jet like those guys. I bet they have such an amazing lifestyle, constantly jetting off to amazing places." Up in the 747 cockpit the eagle eyed F/O happens to spot the Space Shuttle zoom across the sky on the way to the International Space Station. He thinks to himself "That has the be the ultimate job. I wish I was onboard up there, floating around in space, looking down on the world. I bet they don't have all the hassle and politics we get. Those guys are sooo lucky.". Up on the International Space Station, a homesick astronaut looks down to see his hometown through the crystal clear skies and thinks to himself "Man, I can't wait to go home. If I was at home now, I'd be sat in my lawnchair enjoying some late afternoon sun with my family. Those guys down there are soo lucky."

I think the gist is that the grass always seems greener on the other side, especially in aviation (I think another version has somebody on the Space Shuttle wishing they were bimbling around in a spamcan).

[Pilot Positive]

Great anecdote and soooo true :ok:

Most pilots aspire to reach the "Next Level". Wannabees should have a lot of aspirations as they are right at the bottom but they seem to be so intently focussed on jumping past a few levels without progressing naturally and enjoying the experience of each level. It just takes some money to get ahead and then - there goes the industry's integrity.

Getting back to the nub of this thread though: Personally, I enjoy flying immensely and I fly a variety of types including jet and piston. I cant wait to get up in the morning and fly (whatever it is). "Next Level"? The only "Next Level" for me is the next FL going up or down.

Perhaps the FTOs should introduce more of the stick and rudder aspect of flying? Perhaps like the good old days when we had to do aerobatics :eek: OTOH that'll mean reducing their margins...:ugh:

[FCS Explorer]

most of time on duty i'm busy HATING the job. and during my off time i just don't think about it. yes, the industry has gone downhill.
but if you can get those people sitting behind you safely to any place in pretty much any wx even DESPITE of degraded working conditions where you lack even basics like food and sleep why not be proud? probably weird train of thought.

[169west]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kIWY2DV0KnE/S0LQYm7XsaI/AAAAAAAAFUw/81_zvwh5XxE/Boeing%20737%20taking%20off%20from%20Brussels,%20Belgium%20a t%20sunset.jpg

[169west]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3594/3349192186_43bff09d50.jpg

[IrishJason]

I cant wait. after reading the comments above again people seem too hate the job. Me been the new blood personally i cant wait :)

[169west]

... and think that "probably" in the future they will "probably" pay you to do it! ... just being sarcastic after the P2F thread!
It is a good job and a lot of people I know they are in the aviation business for passion and a real one! Sometimes you cannot really survive if you don't look back and follow your step again of your initial motivation! Good Luck!

[JB007]

What the hell is that red stuff he's eating?!?

Quite a few, myself included, whilst been made redundant recently, were prepared to come out of flying, return to what we did before or take the career in a new direction if it mean't the only option to keep flying was to drag families to the Middle East...

Possibly a sign that a lot of us are no longer prepared to keep chasing this career or sacrificing other aspects of life for this career that I think we were once all as enthusiastic as IrishJason is about joining it...is this because it is no longer worth it?

I still enjoy flying a lot and am always happy, regardless of the time of day to go to work, but i'm soooo disillusioned with the industry as a whole...

[Kelly Hopper]

The "industry" is not some abstract entity. It is people. And it is these people that treat others so badly.
People in commercial aviation used to look after one another. Supporting each other, ( a little at least) so every improvement was in everyones interest. It was a gentleman's flying club. Knowledge was handed down.

Now it seems a race to get to the top of a collapsing ladder throwing off anyone who dares to be on "your" ladder, in your way.

Perhaps a sign of the times everywhere? In a world where standards mean nothing to anyone anymore. It's all about productivity. Pay the least, extract the most. If you don't/ won't do it, bye bye.....next!

Newbees simply can't see the wood for the trees. "Don't put your hand in the fire, it will hurt." No matter how many times you hear it you don't see it 'til you put your hand in that fire!

"Proud to be a pilot?" Well, proud for what I have achieved yes. Proud of what the job is, for what it has become? No way. Do I enjoy flying still? Yes. Do I enjoy the job? No.

If I had it all again I'd stick to flying privately and use my skills to have a career that values me and a life away from work rather than sacrifice family, relationships, hobbies, friends, home, pension, and all the things that others take for granted so I can earn a very modest income averaging one year in two-three!

Things can only get better.... everyday is a day closer to hanging up that flightbag.

[ItsAjob]

And whats that big thing between his legs with the jepp plates on!

The French sure got it right prioritizing the meal tray.

[169west]

JB, you got it!

and since the subject is pride...

"Philosophers and social psychologists have noted that pride is a complex secondary emotion which requires the development of a sense of self and the mastery of relevant conceptual distinctions (e.g., that pride is distinct from happiness and joy) through language-based interaction with others."

If ever exist pilot psychologists, they will agree with the fact that pilots had master that "complex secondary emotion" and transform it into a simplex, primary status of walking with 4 balls! :)

[Pilot Positive]

I think there's a salad in there somewhere isnt there? :eek:

What the hell were the hosties thinking.....? :=

[169west]

... the paradox of choice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM&feature=channel) is a funny way to describe what we are facing nowadays and how it was much better when it was worse!

[Pilot Positive]

....And the route to happiness? Low expectations!

:)

[atco757]

A) so what do you do?

B) I'm an air traffic controller

A) Cool! You are one of the guys that wave the table tennis bats at the aiport

B) (heard it so many times and can't be bothered to even try to explain) ........ Yes that's what I do......

Despite lack of respect from outsiders and not being able to talk about what I do, I am very proud of my job and jump out of bed in the morning for it :)

[Exaviator]

Enough of the negativity! Remember that God only created two worthwhile jobs in this world - The first he gave to the airline captain, the other he kept for himself. :D

[Piper19]

Oh my god all this negativity makes me angry. I myself am restricted to PPL flying, never can do IMC or night flying due to vision problems. I so very much want to have my CPL but it's impossible. Sooo many friends of me have completed their ATPL, but cannot find a job as pilot for years. I suggest all pilots that hate their job quit business and make place for the ones who still can and will do it.

[Sean Dillon]

Piper19

Whilst appreciating YOUR own circumstances, until you have committed and sacrificed, please be angry elsewhere, its irrelevant to this thread but more related to the 'Wannabe' Forum

Regards
Sean

[Desk-pilot]

As an FO three years into the career on a turboprop who wanted to do this all my life and only got into an airliner in his late thirties I am proud of being able to fly, still love powering down the runway and breaking through the cloud into the wild blue yonder. Many of my friends think it's cool etc etc.

However I find my love for it is inversely proportional to how hard I'm working - I enjoy it so much more when it slackens off and I get a balance of time with the family or to do other things.

I also feel somewhat humiliated by the salary I earn which (mid 30k) is less than my 28 year old plumber, the local train drivers and the fueller who fills the plane. Frankly the salary for the training, investment, unsocial hours and skill required is imho a bit of a joke.

I don't want to go back to an office, but I do want a fair wage and I don't feel I'm getting it which leads to a degree of disillusion with the industry.

Proud - yes, happy - sometimes, contented not really because right now I don't feel I'm providing as well as I should for my family. When the market improves I sincerely hope the better carriers out there (BA, Virgin, TC, TF, Monarch, Execjets) enjoy a boom and I get accepted. Then I will be proud - flying a great aeroplane - Boeing or Airbus and being paid a sensible salary to do it.

On the other hand yesterday we carried a 3yr old little girl on her birthday. I made a special PA for her, put her in my seat for photos when we landed and I hope made her and her Mum's day. Apparently the other pax clapped when I made my PA and I must confess I felt proud of being able to give them a great experience. Sometimes I guess you have to appreciate the small things that give you job satisfaction.

One thing I find odd is that air travel is one of the few services that seems to be suffering a huge decline in service standards - even McDonalds is getting better and better nowadays (wifi, healthy meal choices, better decor). I just don't see why airline companies are taking away free newspapers, free drinks, generous baggage allowances and replacing them with swingeing baggage charges, crap expensive food when the cost of doing it right is so low and would add so little to the overall ticket price. Given the quantities airlines buy newspapers and food/drink in it should only add say £5 per head per sector to the shorthaul ticket price. Surely if we reintroduced these things we would become carrier of choice on a given route - provided the price only goes up a little. Once the competition responded you'd be competing again on quality of service and maybe flying would become a pleasure again.

Wouldn't it be nice for cabin crew, customers and pilots to go home feeling you'd given great service today?

Desk-pilot

[3bars]

Desk Pilot

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[virgo]

I can remember Mohammed Ali being interviewed and asked if he was "proud" of being the best boxer in the world. He replied that he was, but he'd have been equally proud of being the best bin-man in the world.

Being "proud" of your job has got nothing to do with what the job is but EVERYTHING to do with how you do it.

If you're actually talking about a job that makes you feel good or attracts the envy of blokes down the pub..................that's something different, but it's not "pride in the job"

[Skyhigh86]

Absolutely agree virgo, some of the people i have seen who have been most proudest of their jobs are some of the most menial jobs around. They dont earn a lot and yet are as happy as larry.

Lesson to be learnt there...................

[Pilot Positive]

I felt proud of being able to give them a great experience

Yes, that's one of the good parts of the job - sharing your love of flying with other people (not just other pilots) and getting a positive response from doing so. That little girl and her parents will never forget that moment. :) Huge satisfied grin springs to mind. :O

[iFabio2]

In my view you can't possibly compare piloting with many of the other professions such as Medicine, Engineering etc because, quite frankly, you don't need to be as smart.

you must be joking right? you might learn all the atpl theory by heart and pass the exams but, I am so curious to see what would happen at the first sim check with all the failures thrown at you


In my view, many people can train to be pilots, but very, very few could train to be engineers or doctor's.

oh really? than I would love to take you around a well known international agency where I work at the moment, filled up with engineers of all kinds. You would really see how brilliant their minds are.........

fabio

[Ops! I did it again]

I dont reply much on pprune, but someone saying Im just a skilled work made my blood boil.

Id like to see a "Skilled Worker" Make the decisions we pilots make on a daily basis... aswell as flying the aircraft, us mere Pilots must manage people (crew, pax, groundcrew etc), make economic decisions on fuel/payload etc, managed technical defects and the rest!!

... I always say to people the hardest part of my job is making it look easy... Maybe I should stop being so cool and calm and make it look as hard and as stressfull as it really is!!!

You MUST be a professional in this game...


Would you let your family on an aircraft with anyone but a "Professional"??? :confused:

I would say more but Id only be falling on deaf ears... or worse, upset Someone who doesnt know what there talking about :{


Ops! I did it again!!!

[Sleeve Wing]

Bit late I know but only just caught the thread.
Here's the original text of Full Circle, EGHH (post 44) if you want it.
I kept it just to remind me what the job's all about.
Sorry it's a bit long but it's worth considering.

Full Circle.

One fine hot Summer’s afternoon saw a Tiger Moth flying circuits at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was becoming quite concerned with the student’s inability to hold circuit height in the thermals and was getting a bit impatient at sometimes having to take over control.
Just then he saw a twin-engined Cessna, 5000 feet above him, and thought - “Another 1000 hours of this and I’ll qualify for that twin charter job. Aaahh to be a real pilot, - ---- going somewhere!”

The 421 was already late and the boss had told him that this charter was for one of the Company’s major clients. He’d already set MCT and the cylinders didn’t like it in the heat of the summer’s day. He was at 6000 ft. and the wind was now 20kt. head.
Today was his sixth day on, and an 0500 start, so he was feeling pretty knackered. Maybe, if he could get 10,000 feet out of them, he might find a wind advantage – sod these CHTs !
He glanced out momentarily and spotted an A321 leaving a contrail, way up in the serene blue sky. “Oh, man,” he thought, “My interview’s next month. Let’s hope I don’t blow it ! Out of GA, nice jet job, above the weather…no snotty pax. to hang around for ! P-F-M !!

The Airbus bucked and weaved in heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC had advised that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that the destination was below RVR minimums, had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible diversion and to arrange an ETA that might ensure the fog had lifted to CAT lll.
Company negotiations had broken down yesterday and it looked like everyone was in for a bloody pay cut. The F/Os.would be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn’t much to speak of, anyway.
Finally, having just decided on a speed compromise between LRC and Vb., the Captain caught sight of a Concorde at Mach 2+ . Tapping his F/O on the shoulder as the 321 took another thumping, he said “ Now that’s what we should be on….huge salary….super fast…..not too many routes…. a couple of sectors a week……above the CAT… Yeah, what a life !

FL590 was not what he wanted anyway – maybe FL570 ? Already the TAT was creeping up again so either they would have to descend or slow down. That damned rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he’d like to see.
Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam had shown OK below FL610. Fuel flow was up too and the transfer pump had become intermittent.
Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. “Hey, Skip,” he called as he pointed. “ Must be the Shuttle.” The Captain looked for a moment and agreed.
Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the “be all and end all” in aviation. Above the crap – no radiation problem – no damn fuel transfer problem – aaahh. Must be a great way to earn a quid.

Discovery was into its 27th. orbit and perigee was 200ft. out from the nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually u/s and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft. predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was required. Houston persistently asked what the Commander wanted to do but proffered very little useful advice. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak.
Just then the mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander over. “Hey,have a look at this, Sir. Isn’t this the kind of flying you said you wanted after you finish with NASA ?” The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooohh,yeah ! Now that is flying ! Man, that’s what it’s all about. Geez, I’d give my left nut just to be doing that right now.”

What the Commander was looking at was a tiny Tiger Moth bashing the circuit at a quiet country grass airfield in Berkshire on a nice bright sunny afternoon.

There's always something to look forward to.

Rgds,
Sleeve

[Ops! I did it again]

Brilliant Sleeve, How True!!!.... funny enough I saw a Pa31 Chieftain the other night and thought, wouldnt it be nice again... I'll stick to the 757/767 tho :)

For what its worth, Im VERY VERY Proud to be a pilot!!! :ok:


What Im not proud of is the fact that the bean counters/MD's are treating everyone like crap and talking down our value to the company... Time to take a stand!!!

I think everyone who decides on Pilot Pay and conditions should do a long Night flight with crap wx all the way and Heavy Thunderstorms at destination and Min Fuel, maybe take the dog of the fleet and see what tech probs you get... might get some more respect and pay if they saw how it really is sometimes. :\


MRA4ENG.... I shall let someone else reply to you... Your not worth it in my opinion.

[169west]

What makes the difference in quality of pilot life?

Considering different timelines, we all want to reach our goal! We want to be proud of what we have done both in our professional and personal career. Achievement is how we measure our success!
Achievement is how we take the invisible and we make it visible! We take what is our dream of being a pilot and we’ll make it happened. And this is the easy part. We know the rules and ones you know the game everything come pretty easy!
How many of you had the chance to interact with a pilot who had everything from the best flying school, the best new type rating and everything with daddy’s moneys and love and comforts; very often that type of pilot end-up complaining for the rest of their career. And then you meet pilots that have been into ultimate pain, spiritually, psychologically and emotionally abused and not always but often they became one of the pilot that contribute the most to help others.

Don’t get me wrong! Resources can help, but they are not the defining factor. Emotion or emotional pictures are the driving forces in everyone us.

So, am I proud of being a pilot?
YES, although to get chicks, it’s better to say you are plumber!
YES, because the emotional states related to sequence of different moments had created such a strong database of feelings that although, it is not difficult to picture myself with the plumber suite fixing some nice lady’s pipes, I do prefer to fly planes!

[wiggy]

The supervision of people is very much a skilled job.

Yes it is - it's something professional pilots, especially Captains, do do everytime they go to work.....you were aware of that, weren't you?

I trust you to fly me and my family because you have been trained; and because I don't consider it to be a complex task, I don't insist on you being a professional.



Well that's very kind of you....

[virgo]

Whenever the subject of the "qualities of a pilot" is raised, the issue becomes confused by introducing the "qualities of a captain" into the same argument.

To become a successful pilot needs the academic ability to absorb and remember the technicalities of the aeroplane and associated subjects- nothing very difficult about that - plus the physical co-ordination of eye and arm to successfully control the aeroplane.
To be a successful Commander requires all the management skills and experience of dealing with people, operational problems and decision making that have to be absorbed and demonstrated over a period of time.

They are two entirely different things. You DON'T need to be a pilot to be a good captain - the RAF has employed non-pilot captains for fifty odd years.
Similarly, some companies (two that I've worked for) employ PILOTS who are very good at flying their aeroplane but not very good at exercising the skills of command.

So when we talk about the skills/professionalism/qualities/pride of/ problems associated with/justified financial rewards/etc, etc, let's be clear about whether we're talking about pilots or commanders.

[EGCC4284]

When I was about 18, I use to go to The Airport Hotel pub at Manchester Airport and watch the planes land and take off. As I saw them taxi past the fence to line up for departure, I use to think that these guys flying those machines must have gone to Oxford or Cambridge and that they all had degrees and were the most switched on men in the world.

I left school at 16 with poor qualifications and I can’t spell to save my life. All I wanted to do was be a long distance lorry driver. At 17 I got a job as a van driver and at 21 got my HGV Class 1. I then drove trucks for nearly 10 years. 6 years on hazardous waste chemical tankers and 3 years for Eddie Stobarts Ltd.

At 31, I got a job at Manchester Airport as an aircraft refueller. It was there that the dream to be a pilot was born. Whilst being a refueller, I did the modular route and spent 5 years hard work during weekends and holidays getting my Commercial Pilots License.

I was an aircraft refueller for 9 years and then in April 2007, I got a lucky break and got a job flying 737’s for a UK holiday company. Today is my last day with them as I am being made redundant. I start for a Middle East company in 2 weeks time going onto thier 777 fleet.

I was out with a friend of mine this week who is a massive plane spotter and I explained to her what I used to think about the pilots I used to watch at Manchester when I was 18. I told her that I thought you must have been to Oxford or Cambridge and have a degree etc etc to get a job as a pilot, but now I know its just not true. She said she thought the same until she met me. I could not stop laughing and she felt bad LOL. I was pleased as I am still the same person and the job has never and never will go to my head. I and my family are very proud of what I have achieved.

How do I feel when I walk through the terminal with my uniform on, I feel good and I think I deserve to. I worked hard to get here.

During work, I love meeting new people and just being myself. I like having a laugh and when anyone asks how I got into flying, when I tell them my history, they are shocked. They can’t believe that someone who used to be a truck driver is now flying 737’s

I am soon to be flying 777’s for that airline you keep seeing advertised on Sky News.

Am I proud, yes I am. Why, because I struggled in school and worked hard to get here.

Do I love my job, I don’t have a job, I do something I love and get paid for it.

[His dudeness]

the difficult part is fixing it..................which is where the Professional Engineer comes in.

Oh yeah. The other day I had a leak in the gear blow down system (3000PSI Nitrogen) I was only able to report it, since I´m just a lowlife pilot.
MX came and changed the gauge ('its almost everytime the gauge', mx said)

Next day, same problem. Called mx. 'oh, they must have sent us a faulty gauge'.
Being curious, I used a mirror to check S/N's between emer gear blow down and emer brake bottle. Sure enough the highly skilled and trained engineer (a person that is allowed to sign stuff, I shall add) had changed the wrong gauge.
It seems to be VERY difficult to read discrepancies properly and act accordingly.

So hat off to you, sir, I´m suitable impressed by the hardships and great responsibility you have in your fast moving enviroment.

Irony mode off...

Actually I have great respect fo mx engineers, ATC people, met office guys, baggage handlers, tow tug drivers and all the other guys making my little world work, but I´m not allowing them to lower my part of it.

Making the flight experience looking and feeling seamlees is my goal, considering the fact with what I sometimes have to put up with I´m kinda proud sometimes. (ever tried a 20 minute turnaround at UUEE in winter?) Haven´t had a flying accident yet, another thing I feel good about.
As a coorperate pilot I do have more than just a few hats on, managing not only the flying, but doing flight prep, getting permissions, airport slots, order handling, Hotels, Catering, Fuel, do emission trading etcetc. and all of that cost effective I guess my skills are somewhat more than that of a skilled worker (but yes, flying itself can be taught to a lot people)

[B737-pilot]

Yes. I Am Proud Of Being A Pilot.

[Neptunus Rex]

Most of the above is true, except for the two obvious Trolls.
The sad part is, the lot of the professional pilot took a serious dive when the beancounters wrested control from more far-sighted managers. Things will not improve until Joe Public pays a reasonable price for his airline ticket.
That is the quandary.

[Lightning Mate]

Used to be mate.

e-mail soon, I have not forgotten......:ok:

[Der absolute Hammer]

EGCC4284

Thoroughly enjoyed your post. I knew a dispatcher or two who came up like that, Doff the titfer to you.
Best of luck in the sandpits!

[Luke SkyToddler]

No. I'm bored out of my t!ts, demoralized, perpetually tired and my kids cry whenever they see me put my uniform on because they know they won't see daddy for another few days. I hate this job like poison and I have every intention of walking away from the whole thing in another few months - as soon as I've paid off the last of the house size sums of money I borrowed to get here :(. I will honestly go back to manual labouring or my previous life as a car mechanic or something, it will be worth it to live in a civilized country, have a good nights sleep and rediscover my family.

I must have been mad ...

[Obi Wan Kirk]

The Return on Investment (ROI) is very low. Today pilots work longer hours and payed less, also add to the fact airlines really abuse them.

A colleague the other day was telling me how his son with a 2000 Euro course has got a job raking him in 3-4 times more than a pilot working with computers, from home!

My suggestion to any young person even thinking of becoming a pilot is to talk to as many pilots they can to get a real idea of what it is like. then go and get a degree in business and become an entrepreneur and eventually buy your own plane.

I remember my first flying job: my boss was 27 and owned and flew his own little Cessna Citation. He had fun and earnt lots more money than a B747 TRE.

[Mr.Bloggs]

Many of my colleagues are unhappy, but stuck in their positions. Flying is no different from other jobs in that respect. Pressure from management, pressure from crew, and the 6-monthly pressure from LPC/OPC's, not forgetting annual medicals and Line Checks. All of this is to be faced while pay goes down in real terms.

This results in a poor level of pride for too many folks flying heavy metal. Thankfully, most take a pride in their professionalism, which is a different thing.

(As for living the dream, the dream died a long time ago....we were all keen as mustard to begin with. No longer)

[Floppy Link]

I'm happy. Jacked in the 757/767 5 years ago to go back to helicopters. Now flying air ambulance and police shifts covering other people's leave and training absences. Every day is different, some days are tediously boring, some we are run off are feet.
No security nause, we just wander out to the aircraft and go flying.
Sure the money is a lot less. I'm glad I did the airline thing from F27 to 767, but I don't really want to go back (yet...never say never!)
I'm proud to be a pilot, yes...

[bultaco]

I used to work in mobiles....text messaging machine used to cost 1 million -now you can buy the whole network for a million.

our product has been cheapened so much....my parents got a flight to Spain for a wedding gift and they said it was like winning the lottery, now it would be thrown back at you.

[MidgetBoy]

Airlines need to jack up the wages they're paying us then.
It doesn't matter if people are treating flying as their god given right. The fact is, it's a privilege, take a train if the time isn't as important, maybe a boat. Even if the prices are higher, people will still have to fly.