Eyesight (a common topic, it seems)

[rwayre]

Are there any good news stories out there about short-sightedness, The Bates Method, and the visual test for a Class 1 medical.

I'm evaluating the prospects of successfully acquiring a CPL(H) licence and my eyesight is the major barrier from what I can see (which isn't much or I wouldn't be here!)

I've had a first session with a Bates practioner and now I'm just hoping. Some confidence inspiring tales would be appreciated.

[ColinF]

Tell us your prescription, it's quite easy to tell whether you're class1 fit or not!(eyesight wise, that is) :rolleyes:

[rwayre]

Kraken

I outside of the proposed limits of -5 dioptres, never mind the existing -3. Hopefully someone out there will tell me that they used to be -6, -7, -8.... and Bates got them within the requirements.

[g10]

search for threads written by "mr magoo" in the "medical" forum....he had success with the bates method.

[QUERY]

My shortsightedness started around puberty, worsened until my mid-teens and then stabilised immediately I stopped using the 'bates method.
All that is widely-known as is the fact that it's best keep to well away from choppers... :p

[inverted flatspin]

bored marketeer Ortho-k would probably work although I believe it can be painful. If you are now outside of the initial limits but within the renewal limits then get ortho-k until you have a low enough prescription to pass the initial then let your eyes return to their normal state and you should be good for renewal.

As for having a diopter limit in the first place well that is just plain and simple bad science. The diopter is not a measure of how well you are seeing it is the strength of your lenses. It's only function is to make sure that your optician and the guy who makes your glasses are on the same page.

My uncorrected vision is 20/50 which is pretty good, I can get around without my glasses or contacts if I have to although I choose not to. My prescription is -2.75 in each eye. I have a friend who has uncorrected vision of 20/200 he is unable to function without his specs, his prescrition is -1.75 in each eye. Although in general the worse your eyesight the stronger the lens this is not true in all cases and if you can be corrected to 20/20 nothing should stand in your way of becoming a pilot.

The FAA used to require a waiver if uncorrected vision was worse than a certain level 20/200 I think was the cut off, everybody who asked for this waiver got it and after a long number of years where the accident statistics of these waivered airmen exactly matched their unwaivered counterparts and their were no accidents where poor eyesight was listed as a causal factor, the FAA dropped the requirement for a waiver. Now all you need is 20/20 with or without correction. A very practical and reasonable bunch the yanks are.

[Sly'n Smiley]

How about colour vision? I was issued with an OZ ATPL on the basis of the Farnsworth Lantern Test.Those plates with the coloured dots look like a pizza to me! Is there an ICAO standard? If so, what countries accept or don't accept this standard??

[Gordon Bennett]

Hi BoredMarketeer. If I was you, I would have the laser surgery to correct your eyesight to within class 1 limits. What I would NOT do is tell Medical Division as they won't give you a medical for a year after the surgery (you can't do that if you already have a class 2 of course!)
My eyesight is outside class 1 limits but I was given a medical after completing 700 hours flying. This was pre-JAR so I don't know if this option is available to you. Apparently the thinking is that a 700 hour pilot is experienced and so they are willing to relax the rules.Failing that get an FAA licence and marry a yank. Where theres a will....

[ColinF]

Gordon Bennett-
I've never known the CAA or JAA to relax their rules for anybody!! Well done on breaking the mold on that one!
As regards Laser correction; they spot that one a mile off at the class 1 initial. When they see it, they don't give you the cert.. Nuff said! :cool:

[Lewis]

Forget Bates. It ain't worth it. It's just another scam. Try to see without your glasses as much as you can and you get pretty much the same effect.

[rwayre]

Must admist I'm not keen on the laser surgery anyway! Guess Mr Bates is going to have to do. So - as at 28th November 2001, I can't pass Class 1. Wish me luck and watch this space (otherwise I shall be off to the States - anyone know any single American lasses of reasonable appearance (with corrected vision!!)). :eek:

[rahaney]

i was prompted to a site which has new proposed regulations for the class 1 and class 2 eyesight requirements not sure when they might be implemented but 2 years is been talked about.

hope this was as good a piece of news for you as it was for me.
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/medical/SRG_MED_JMSC_News_2001.PDF



:D :D :D :D :D

[rahaney]

for those without acrobat reader heres the page

JAA Medical Subcommittee (MSC) News 2001
See below for a summary of the meetings of the committee and the principal decisions.

For last year’s news see Information/General or click on MSC News in 2000.
March 2001

This meeting mainly discussed changes to the ophthalmology requirements. No consensus
could be reached, and further discussion was deferred to the next meeting (see below).

June 2001
Again, the major topic of discussion was the ophthalmology requirements and the MSC
eventually agreed the changes, but by majority voting. They are summarised below.
However, before they become formally incorporated into JAR FCL 3 (Medical) they need to
be promulgated as a ‘Notice of Proposed Amendment’ (NPA) so that individuals and
organisations can comment. Such comments will be taken into account by the MSC (and
the Flight Crew Licensing Committee, which can overrule a MSC decision) and the proposals
adjusted as necessary. After that there are some legal and administrative procedures to be
followed by the JAA before the new standards become formally incorporated as Joint
Aviation Requirements. This process can take up to two years, particularly for a
controversial subject like ophthalmology. It might be possible for earlier implementation to
occur by the issuance of a ‘Temporary Guidance Leaflet’, but this is unlikely as there was not
unanimous support for the proposed changes. The question of timescales for
implementation will be discussed at the next MSC meeting in late August.
A summary of the proposed Ophthalmology Requirements is given below (note that these
are proposals - see the appropriate Medical Division web pages for the current
requirements).

JAA Class 1 initial:

+5/- 5 dioptres (no requirement for stability)

2 dioptres astigmatism

2 dioptres anisometropia

Refractive surgery: acceptable with a pre-operative refraction between +5 and
-5 dioptres (the UK is already accepting applicants up to these limits with a
good result a year after surgery)

JAA Class 1 revalidation/renewal:

+5/-8 dioptres (an initial applicant between –5 and –8 dioptres cannot gain a
Class 1 certificate, even if stable)

3 dioptres astigmatism

3 dioptres anisometropia

Class 1 holders over 40 years must have an extended eye examination every two
years by an optometrist (or an ophthalmologist if correction is greater than –5 dioptres
or uncorrected visual acuity is worse than 6/60). For pilots under 40 years this two
yearly examination is required for certificate holders who wear glasses or contact
lenses to meet the requirements. Currently the UK CAA is happy for AMEs to do
these examinations (see ‘What’s New’ item on Comprehensive Eye and
Ear/Nose/Throat Examinations)
JAA Class 2 initial:
+5/-8 dioptres
3 dioptres astigmatism
3 dioptres anisometropia
Refractive surgery: acceptable with pre-operative refraction between +5 and -8
dioptres
JAA Class 2 revalidation/renewal:
+5/-8 dioptres
Astigmatism – no limit
Anisometropia – no limit
The UK argued for more relaxed requirements than those stated above, but was
unsuccessful. UK CAA policy changes will be announced on these web pages when
timescales have been agreed for implementation and the exact requirements have been
accepted.
Other items discussed included the relaxation of the limits for Class 1 certificate holders who
develop aortic stenosis (narrowing of the main valve in the heart). There was a long
discussion on psychology requirements, but ultimately no changes were proposed.
Three states brought cases to the committee where the UK had issued initial Class 1
medical certificates to applicants who, according to the three states, did not meet the
standards in JAR-FCL 3. There will be further discussion about this at the next meeting.
However, it may become more of a problem since (in June 2001) the FCL committee
approved NPA 14. This contains the requirement (JAR-FCL 3.065) that all applicants for a
licence must have their initial medical done in the state of licence issue. Thus applicants
may (quite correctly) do an initial medical in their home state before starting to train. If,
subsequently, they decide to train (and eventually apply for a licence) in another JAA state,
they would have to take another initial medical examination in the ‘training’ state. What
would happen if there was a disagreement between the two states over an applicant’s
fitness? Which state would decide? The UK CAA Medical Division feels that amendments
to the regulations, if they do not effect flight safety, should simplify the certification process,
rather than make it more complicated.
July 2001

woohoo!! :D

[ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: rahaney ]

[ColinF]

I stand corrected on corrective surgery!!
I only stated what I was told during my initial 3mths ago. I suppose it just goes to show the level of interest the docs really have in allowing us to fulfill our dreams!
Get your surgery BoredMarketeer me matey, and (with any luck) in a year, you'll be class 1 fit!!!

My heart-felt best wishes to you!!! :cool:

[scroggs]

Sorry, chaps, but this one belongs in 'Medical'.

[rmmonteiro]

So rwayre, where are you ? Did Mr. Bates work??:8 :O

cheers

[Ozgrade3]

Ahhhh, I see the Europeans are still backwards in their medical standards. Just a perpetuation of the old class system.

I am lucky to be here in Oz. I am -8.5 dioptres and have an un restricted Class 1 medical certificate. The only condition is that I wear corrective lenses (contacts or glasses) whilst flying. Not a problem considering without my glasses I probably wouldnt be able to find the aircraft on the ramp at all, let alone fly it.

[simulacra]

Yea, europe is so backwards in some ways, alot of history y' know ;) , what's even more stupid is that the min levels here in sweden are even WORSE!, you won't pass if you're outside +-3 dio. which is funny since I thought that JAR was supposed to systemise the med. standards all over europe... :ooh:

[fhchiang]

well ,

not only europe mate...

it seems that the same thing is happening in certainn asian countries

for example my country, Malaysia

[Hero87]

Hi, I am short sighted and this is my prescription:
right eye -2.25DS
left eye -2.25DS
I dont understand those numbers...could anyone give me a brief explanation?
but what I really want to know is with my eyesight being like this could I obtain a PPL? Im thinking about saving up some money whilst in university this year and hopefully pay around £4000 for PPL training.
thanks

[The African Dude]

DS is for Dioptres, some form of measurement which google would probably explain!.. and the limits for a Class 1 (which are more stringent than a Class 2 I think - stand to be corrected though) medical are -5 / +5. I have eyesight of a similar standard, and as long as it's fully correctable normally there isn't a problem (notwithstanding other eyesight conditions such as astigmatisms... can't advise sorry mate!). With military, sure, you can't very well wear glasses when pulling 4g 50ft off the deck because if they fall off then... well. Anyway, I digress.

:ok:

[Hero87]

cool yeah i justs did a google search
Thanks glad i know I am within the class1 medical for my eyesight.
thanks

[simulacra]

But one thing I'm uncertain about, is the max level of +-5 the TOTAL deviation or is it +-5 per eye or might it even be the median of the 2 eyes?

[Full_ReverseThrust]

Hi Guys,

Question about Class one medicals.
Say I was to go over to the states and get my class 1.
Would I be able to do my Integrated training course back home in the UK?

Cheers

[ATPMBA]

I heard if you get your FAA license and have a FAA Class I medical (correct to 20/20, no diopter stuff) and then go for the JAA/CAA class one they use ther renewal standards.

I'm not sure if you need a FAA ATPL or a CPL to get in and use the renewal standards.
:O