Terminations!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Saturn]

Anyone hear about the 14 or so terminations from the company recently? Pilot's that is! Told they did not meet the standard of training even after checks. Told adios! Resign or fired! All very recent!:=

[freightdog188]

but wouldn't that happen in any company?

[Soar2384]

Which company are we talking about?

[crwjerk]

WHAT YOU TALKIN ABOUT WILLIS?????????

Which company, ranks,??????

[geh065]

Heard rumblings on the flightdeck about a few people. Some names even mentionned although I did not know them personally. Never heard a number, just 'a few'. Some are fairly new but one I know of has been with CX for quite a few years (10+).

A few demotions including capt>F/O, and F/Os losing their relief qualification.

However having heard some stories of the relief guys in particular, it does not surprise me. Perhaps management have realised they can't just hand out RQ to people willy nilly.

[Captain TOGA]

This thread is useless without names.

[4 driver]

TOGA....you expect to see the names of the cockpit crew who were terminated? That's a bit much....
There was some "spring cleaning" carried out though.

[Capt Toss Parker]

A wise mama-san once said ....

"Don't fire the individual if they're struggling, fire the people who hired them for not doing their job properly"

On that note ... back to my 3rd QL chop list!

[Five Green]

Or maybe those that trained (or were supposed too) them !

This is nothing new the co. has been quietly weeding out Flight Crew this way for many years. Sometimes justified, some times using the training system to handle P file issues. Either way no accoutnability, so no way to know the real reason.

Time to get real representation when you are given a chop check. If the co. really is doing all it can to train it's flight crew then they should have no problem allowing HKAOA reps to audit and sit in on management check rides and line checks.

I know I know....FFC.

FG

[jonathon68]

There is nothing new about a steady trickle of people leaving CX or KA after problems during induction, upgrade or even conversion training.

It is similar in most Airlines.

The rumors generally paint a picture of a saint, heartlessly chopped because of deficiencies in the training system. However, the reality is usually far more complicated.

A good example would perhaps be experienced based pilots converting from one Boeing type to another. Most people will reach line check standard within the syllabus number of sectors. But a handful of people will not, and a very few will not reach the standard even after a further 10-20 or even 30 extra sectors.

[Capt Toss Parker]

That's a little naive Jonathon!

Each fleet has the resident bipolar lunatic dishing out scores and if you get the wrong guy on the wrong day ... YOU'RE CACTUS!

All I need to do is ridicule every move the candidate makes and by the end of the check he's finished ...

In fairness every airline has failures and some people are below par in a big way but our methods of cleaning out the ranks are far more creative!

Will anyone have me over for dinner to watch the F1? I'll bring the beer ....

[Five Green]

Mr. 68 :

I find it very interesting that you should single out based pilots. Not only that, but you are singling out "experienced" based pilots. As the post is about firings, it appears you think that experienced based Boeing pilots are being fired.

I find myself wondering why you would make out that the co. was firing experienced crew.

I think you are out to lunch, no experienced pilot has needed 30 extra sectors on a conversion course.

I would also question that you had any knowledge of how training is handled at any other airline. Sadly you appear to have the blinders on. You fall into the category of "it ain't broke..." . You are unwilling to try and improve, something that I do not think is a positive trait in an airline pilot.


FG

[Humber10]

sounds like someone from management trying to scare the troops with the good old 'rule by fear' technique.

[markontop]

Watch out there Krones, I raised a similar query only to be accused by "Gnads" and others of borderline slander. Remember, they haven't been let go only moved onto greaner pastures[sic].
Further Hoof, cant wait for your next eloquent response. I'll give you some chaff that is quite appropriate "the truth will set you free"

[broadband circuit]

Without wanting to add fuel to the fire, I did hear that a few of or KA brothers have recently departed due to some "anomalies" in their housing payments. Additionally, a number of others are subject to on-going investigations.

[screwballburling]

Chop checks??!! How archaic!! Who is running CX? The Gestapo?? Have CX a secret police force on the payroll?

I was always lead to believe CX was the top job!! LOL. I would give up aviation if I had to live and work under that sought of threat hanging over me. I don't care how good anyone is or how good they think they are, anyone can be made to fail a simulator check. What is wrong with training to standard?

HKAOA? Goodness me, you guys are living in the dark ages.

[geh065]

screwball,

Surely every airline has standards and if you fail to meet those standards, you are given training, a line check and then let go if you still fail to make the grade.
Not sure I would put my family on an airline that did not let substandard pilots go. Yes there are times when the company does not train very well and checks a bit too often but I have known a few people who have left the company through the years and the company has been pretty good at giving a lot of extra sectors, sim time and training to struggling pilots. They are pretty patient in that regard in my opinion, as much as we like to complain about the many facets of Cathay. Of course, speak to the individuals concerned and they have always been unfairly treated and it is never their own fault.

[screwballburling]

Fair enough.

Two things strike me with your response.

Why fire the guy that's having a bad day at the office? Demote the person if you have to, sure.. These people have families to support and mortgages to repay.

Not really good bean counting is it, if you invest large amounts in a persons training then get rid of?

Seems silly to me, not to mention downright cruel.

Or is it, all CX pilots are all so perfect (because they have to be) they don't get it wrong at times? If that is the case I for one, wont fly CX, ever.

[iceman50]

Screwballburling

Why fire the guy that's having a bad day at the office? Demote the person if you have to, sure.. These people have families to support and mortgages to repay.
Perhaps you should have read the post correctly by geh065, it would not just be "a bad day at the office" scenario. As for supporting families, that is now a reason to have substandard pilots on the flight deck!

Not really good bean counting is it, if you invest large amounts in a persons training then get rid of?

Better than having the loss of life, never mind lawsuits that might occur should said person cause an accident through poor ability.

Seems silly to me, not to mention downright cruel.

How long have you been in aviation? You sometimes have to be cruel to be kind and unfortunately the "cruelness" should have been carried out much earlier to be "kinder" in some cases.

There have been too many accidents recently where "ability" on the day has been an issue.

[HKAforever]

Well, well, well. It seems like you CX and KA guys aren't always so perfect and superior after all. :} I don't know how many times I have to hear my CX colleagues say how superior better they are. I can see why there were those drunken slobs moaning at the aviator the other day, they must be the ones who were let go.

Of course, I admit it's not like HKA has the best pilots on earth, but I'll leave that issue for another day. :rolleyes:

[crwjerk]

NAMES!!!!
Still haven't heard anything from anybody yet...... Use spoonerisms or someting

[HKG Phooey]

HKAforever

yes we are.....

it was the HKA guys that had to go....
:O

[Saturn]

I would like to ask anyone from the AOA GC, do we not have a Discipline and Grievance process in our contracts including those for terminations?

Why has there been nothing from the AOA on this matter??? Pretty serious if you ask me!:ugh:

[NgongPing-man]

@Saturn

Don't you know the whole Discipline and Greivance process is a sham? If the company wants you to go, they will find a way anyhow.

[Forward CofG]

Saturn,

Why ask for a comment from an AOA GC member on a public forum?

If you join the AOA you will be able to contact the GC directly, or be able to use the AOA forums, where these issues can be addressed directly.

[Checkmate]

Dear Saturn

You don't have to look much further than the case of the 49'ers to see what if anything your D&G or for that matter your AOA is worth!

[Big Picture]

Saturn,

To be able to demonstrate any credibility in regard to your complaints about the AOA, remember one thing. A good criticism must be backed up with a plausable alternative. That doesn't include a "do nothing".

I would imagine that you have truly talked yourself into believing what you write, however it is quite clear to us that you are "jack". Lets be honest here, you're to tight to pay for AOA membership which oh by the way aint much, and your "shallow" attempts to justify your non-membership are exactly that.

Get the moths out of your wallet and join a group of fellow pilots that are prepared to put their money where the mouth is. The lawyers the AOA have engaged are going to cost money, are you kicking in????

[Saturn]

Big Picture I have to disagree with you on many levels as I have seen my T&C's deterioate during my time here. RP04, RP07, Rostering, Free Reserve (working for free), COS 08, DEC's and the list goes on! For the record, I am a member of the AOA! But how much more do we give up? I say it's never going to stop and the AOA has become rather pointless. This is simply a contract job now like Korean or China or EVA or others. The way I see it is you have two choices; accept what CX says's or leave. The AOA cannot defend you and cannot stop it. I refer again to the 14+ that were just terminated. No mention of it? Why am I paying dues again? So my T's&C's can contiune to fall? Don't get me wrong CX is better than most but we are quickly reaching the bottom. Soon we will be with the likes of Qatar and Emirates.:ugh:

[MD330]

D&G

I would like to ask anyone from the AOA GC, do we not have a Discipline and Grievance process in our contracts including those for terminations?



Check with AHK.. what mess management landed up in non-compliance to the D & G process and heard, the little asean kid stood up and took AHK management on an appeal and probably to courts too...!! :O Wonder he manage to survive or not with management from same CX origin. ;)

AOA may be helping this young bugger...?? :suspect:

Good luck to all these guys!