Market Rate for cabin crew

[tomkins]

In view of all that is happening at the moment ,it would be interesting to try and determin what is currently market rate pay for cabin crew.I realise that there are perks that vary from company to company but what, as a monthly average would you be taking home net ,over one year as a new entrant on a full time contract.
Any Virgin crew posting,please include youre downroute payments in youre average.

LGW BA starter net monthly average £1400 approx (includes downroute allowances)

[flitegirl]

Qantas LHR Flight Attendant/Business First Flight Attendant
1200 GBP per month approx
(there are cash allowances at the hotel upline, depends on each individual how much you save and take home)

[tomkins]

Flitegirl
could you include a monthly average of you're downroute cash allowances in you're figure.Thanks.

[atmosphere]

easyJet SCCM LTN
£1700 Average

[avgj]

Meridianafly-Italy 7y seniority. 70h average ,2300euro average

[indonesia]

Lufthansa 1400 Euro gross, which is about 1000 Euro per month net, no payrise for six years, thats why the new ones can apply for government aid to be able to pay for their apartements. Most of them have a second job of any kind, just to secure a certain living standard.

Maximum Salary, after 23 years in service, is 3500 Euro net.

There is still a shift-working-additional money, which is about 16,3% of gross-salary, but this one is tax-free!

So for the newcomers it is really hard, especially because there is no payrise for six years. You even get much more at Easy Jet and even Ryanair!

For the Lufthansa Management the Cabin Crews are still to expensive, they would favour a rumanian Lufthansa with local Cabin Crew for 500 Euros a month, getting money from the EU also for funding a company there!

[Lukeafb1]

Whilst I'm not CC, I recall in the 70s and 80s pilots on JAT (Yugoslavia State Airline) were all captains, just so they could make a living wage - and that wasn't very much!

[crwjerk]

CX 1300 usd per month.

[DADDY-OH!]

Eastern European RYR Cabin Crew are about £200/night each whereas Morrocan EK crew are about 200 Dhs/night for the pair.

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

Including allowances at VS anything from 1300-1800 a month, My average being around 1500.

GBP

[LHRFLYGUY]

Qantas LHR Based Crew. £1200-£1400 nett p/m in bank account
This varies as your sector pay and excess hours are paid in too. We only do Asia flights (Long Haul) so an excess can happen frequently. Regular duty time is max 16hour @ 16.01 extra £40 . I do average 4 trips or less a month (full time) Usually 4 day trips. Can be 5day at times.
Down-line pay is good depending on where you go. Singapore is best then Hong Kong then Bangkok. Bangkok is best for shopping so unless your saving you down-line pay its still really good money for local purchases.

So in a nutshell... Including down-line pay i take between £1500 - £1900pm
But remember all purchases down-line come out of that ie food/beer/tv porn..oops! so in reality its more like £1500 average.

[vodkaholic]

Thomson:

Junior crew member on short haul only - average of £1200 a month.
On longhaul - between £1400 and £1600

[Macnemo]

Air New Zealand LHR Crew

ECONOMY £1200/1300, Business £1400/1500 net monthly in bank account

PLUS

LAX 4 days trip, about 335 US$ ( about 220 GBP )
HKG 4 days is 2900 HK$ ( about 250 GBP )

The GBP is very low at the mo so allowances are good because of the good exchange rate

Average 4 trips a month (full time)

[candj]

Hi Macnemo,

Thankyou for the Air New Zealand pay info,when do you think thay will next be taking LHR crew on?

[Macnemo]

Not sure but anyway I don't think anytime in the near future

[VS2BA]

BA LHR shorthaul (3yrs service) average £1500 a month including all allowances. This figure is after all downroute spends have been deducted but on Eurofleet we don't spend that long anywhere so don't spend a huge amount personally!

[A McFF]

Senior flight stewardess at EK five years in company earning about 18,000 dhs per month in the bank. Depending on exchange rate it's between £3000-3500, this is made up of monthly salary, cash allowances downroute, living out allowance (opting not to live in the free company provided accommodation) and transport allowance (as not living in EK accommodation therefore not using free company transport).

[Kanoknuahaha]

Senior cabin crew at wizzair - maximum 1800 euros/month, including everything.

Averge income - 1500/month

We also open-close doors for dep/arr!

K.

[salander]

Anyone noticed a difference this month with the new tax deductions?

[justnightstopping]

easyJet Paris-CDG :

F/A : approx 2200 euros net/month
SCCM : approx 2900 euros net/month.

Cabin Crew only pay taxes on domestic flights in France (which was nearly nothing last year for me...about 100 euros for the year, so basically it's tax-free for us here)

[tofster]

BA LHR Eurofleet junior £11000 basic salary. Total take home pay between 1300-1600 a month.

[pinkpyjama]

Interesting. Do you think that maybe a good indication for MF too?

[galanjal]

er no, I think you'll need to deduct about £400 to get an idea of MF pay!! that's the whole point. BA will be offering the least attractive package of most UK airlines from now on

[pinkpyjama]

That's what I feared although how anyone can get any idea when nobody seems to have a clue which destinations, trip lengths or roster patterns are (for MF) makes it all a bit pie in the sky.
As you know duty pay is hugely significant when calculating take home pay and it's hard to see how you can make an informed choice on such vague info to date.
Anything around £1k take home will be very hard won't it?

[NewlyQCCUK]

Hi FlyGuy,

What hotels are you put in for the three different slips?

So 15 - 19 a month is sounding pretty handlable..is it?

Cheers

[come_flyin]

Purser with EK for 9 years. Average take home 3600GBP per month based on 90-100 flying hours. On top of this we get overnight allowances of about 200-300GBP a month plus medical insurance, uniform, dry cleaning. I do not live in company provided accommodation as i am married. Not bad money for doing something i love! :)

[c_hostie]

These all look like very good pay rates for junior/main crew who are not pursers/sccms etc. And lots of crew are always moaning the money is terrible! If you worked somewhere like an office or hotel, sometimes you would be lucky to reach £1000 a month. And hotels include unsociable hours too!

[c_hostie]

If you look at the BA jobs site, mixed fleet starting pay is 17k. So after tax you would be taking home about £1200 per month I think. And the progression route to senior looks very good.

[Betty girl]

C hostie
That 17k is what BA expect you to earn after your allowances (which of course you have to spend a lot of while away to feed yourself) The pay before allowances is just £11,500. So not a good wage in anybodies eyes I would think.

Pinkpajamas,
The first routes to go on line are Prague and St. Petersburg and Pisa this month. Later they are saying Denver and Nairobi. Then more E/F routes to go in future are Budapest, Kiev, Amsterdam and Copenhagen. For long haul later transferring routes mentioned are San Fransisco and a couple more in Africa. Speculation also that the new Japan route Haneda may go to Mixed Fleet.
Hope that helps.

[pinkpyjama]

Thanks for that info!

[123breath]

With the average UK salary at approximately £27,000 (for the average age employee with, say 15 years 'seniority', a lot of whom will have professional qualifications), a £17000 starting salary sounds pretty good to me for a young, enthusiastic crew member with the possibility of rapid promotion. In any case, if potential candidates don't like the sound of it, they won't apply. Market forces are active here.

Have a look at

PayScale United Kingdom - United Kingdom Country Salary, Average Salaries by Years Experience (http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Country=United_Kingdom/Salary/by_Years_Experience)

The starting salary clearly doesn't sound like much to our 'old-contract' BA crew though......... why might that be?

[Betty girl]

That is not the starting salary. The starting is £11500. The hourly rate pushes this up £17,000 but alot of that has to be used to feed yourself while away living in a hotel. So from your own payscale chart it makes this look quite a low salary .

However as you say, many young people will like to work as cabin crew for BA. When I started flying I don't even think I looked at the pay!!

[pcat160]

And, of course, if you are at home you do not have to eat.

[123breath]

Spending approximately 6 months of the year away from home has it's benefits financially......for a start you only use your car for half of the year, potentially saving £1000's on maintenance/fuel costs.

If you leave your home unattended whilst away you can save on heating costs.

Unless you go out socially less than once or twice a week at home you should spend no more by socializing on trips.....you are only in a hotel during the evenings a few times a month.

In an office environment you might have to pay for/bring your own lunch, whereas when on duty for BA it's all provided for free. When staying in a hotel you can eat your own supply of food from your suitcase, or pop down to the supermarket.......no one is under any obligation to pay room-service rates or go to top restaurants.

Room parties, where you bring your own drinks (crew purchase?) are a very cost effective way to have a drink and socialize after a flight.

You don't have to pay for your uniform in BA, but in certain companies you would have to. Some employees have to be dressed in smart attire every day of their working lives.....at their own expense.

I could go on.........

[tomkins]

123Breath,
£ 17,000 may sound like a decent salary for a first job , however ,you must remember that the basic per month will probably be around £850 and this is what you have to rely on.To this you can add on allowances but as yet we dont know what reliable level will be achievable.Allowances are taxed as well so in a month,when you take two weeks of holiday you may be taking home little more than £850 if you have only had shorthaul trips.Obviously there are many people who dream of working for BA,there will not be a shortage of candidates,however to say that there are good prospects of promotion,is IMHOP laughable as the Senior positions will always be offered to experienced crew be it from BA or other airlines.:{

[tomkins]

123Breath
if you are only spending a few nights a month in hotels,where are you for the rest of the six months that you are not at home during the year, not incurring heating costs ,in never never land?Dont really think that you have got a grasp of the situation yet!!!!!!

[123breath]

Let's think.......

180 days work a year;

A day trip requires no hotel
A 2 day trip consists of 1 night in a hotel
A 3 day trip might consist of 1 night on an airplane, 1 night in a hotel
A 4 day trip might consist of 1 night on an airplane, 2 nights in a hotel
A 5 day trip might consist of 2 nights on an airplane, 2 nights in a hotel

A mixed fleet roster consisting of the above 5 trips would consist of 15 days work, 6 nights in a hotel, and 4 nights on an airplane.

So a crew member would have to feed themselves at their own expense, whether it's by Delsey-dining, supermarket-sweeping, or living-it-up in the top restaurants, for 6 nightstops per month. About a dozen meals during the month will be provided free of charge whilst on duty.......some of them of a very good quality (I chatted with a crew member the other day whilst she enjoyed a first class meal :oh: )

What exactly don't I have a grasp of?

[tomkins]

123Breath
Considering nf will no longer get an overnight allowance nor will they get free breakfast downroute nor will they be able to have a major proportion of their work away from home ie longhaul routes which are going to be very limited in lenght,how do you think you are going to be able to live on the salary they get at the end of the month.Live with your parents ok but after a while you may wont to have a life.AND WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR PENSION????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????

[vbsydcc]

I am flying with Virgin Blue in Australia and average around AU$1800-2000 per fortnight (up to approx GBP2420 per month). That's just as crew, not too sure what the cabin supervisors are earning. Last financial year I grossed GBP31625 with approx GBP9300 in tax free allowances - but I was lucky, new EBA came in so I went straight to CC5, starting salary is now much lower.

[ANstar]

vbsydcc, pay rates in Australia are MUCH higher for crew than they are in the UK.

:(

[123breath]

Tomkins,

It would seem that you need to get a 'grasp' (as you so eloquently put it) of what this thread is all about.

It's entitled 'Market Rate for cabin crew', the concept of which is that if the market (cabin crew candidates) don't like it they will no doubt join another airline on far superior terms, if such an airline exists (remembering that the market for BA is in the UK). BA will then have to come up with another plan in order to attract good candidates. This is the way the world goes round.

Equally, those not impressed by the pension on offer will attempt to find a better one elsewhere. Good luck to them with that.

Where I would agree with you is your assertion that new joiners might have to 'make do' with living with their parents/sharing a rented flat (ie. they might not be able to buy themselves a flat and a new car, whilst dining in fine restaurants in their first year or two) but then again, that's the way the world goes round.

I was there once.

[tomkins]

123Breath
just because BA have managed to attract new entrants does not mean that they are offering a market rate.In these uncertain times many people are prepared to work for these terms and conditions.This could be a false market rate.NewFleet is not up and running yet so we will have to wait and see if it is acually sustainable at these low pay levels or whether they will have to 'tweak' the t & c's to keep people interested.

[tomkins]

Did you know that one of the conditions written into their contract is that if there is a downturn in the market (caused by a recession or terrorist attack or errupting volcanoe etc ) crew can be put on unpaid leave at a moments notice.Scary ,as we all know how cyclical the airline industry can be.

[moo]

To put to bed the pay/market rate issue, Virgin are currently recruiting cabin crew.

Job Details
Cabin Crew


Ref 69932
Location
Contract Type Permanent
Salary Range £0 to £15,000
Job Type Cabin Crew

Job Details

As you would expect, we like to look after our staff and offer a competitive package starting with a full time, permanent contract.

The following is currently provided (after a qualifying period):·

- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.


BA are offering £11,000 plus £2.80/hr duty pay.

I would say these both equate to £15000-£18000/yr.

There are many thousand applying I'm sure.

[Hubert Davenport]

old fleet old money 70,000:):) farthings before allowances.

[lej999]

Hi, anyone know what Easy Jet in Geneva pays? I have to move to Switzerland with my partner and dont want to give up flying. Thanks

[KittyBlue]

Virgin Blue Cabin Supervisors average $4800-5000 AUD per month.

[123breath]

Here's a challenge.....

Is anyone amongst the cabin crew community in BA and participating in this anonymous forum able/willing to post the figure shown on your P60 for last year, or alternatively the figure shown on your March 2010 payslip, in the top left hand corner of the box entitled 'Tax year cumulatives', and labelled 'Gross taxable pay'. If everyone uses the figure from either of these two sources the comparison will be clear. A good demographic would be;

BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority

If you don't fit exactly into any of these categories, just state your seniority/position/pay. Please also state if you are on a part-time contract.

Can anyone challenge my claim, which I am making right here and now, to have seen a senior BA CSD's pay slip about 6 years ago, which showed a total annual gross taxable income of £72,000 (including all allowances/premiums etc.)? If so, you'll need to back it up with fact, because I know what I saw and won't accept a mere denial that it's possible.

I would imagine that anyone who disagrees with Bassa's stance might be willing to put the record straight here, as it is very relevant to this debate.

One rule ........you have to be honest!

[Bunk Monitor]

I don't deny for a moment that you saw a CSD's salary 6 years ago and it was exceptional but I think you will find that things are a lot different now. Owing to the loss of many long range routes (KUL, MEL, PER, BNE EZE etc as well as days off down route (the vast majority of non-long range are now night stops) the allowance/premium payment side of the salary has diminished considerably. If I compare my p60 from 5 years ago to the following years I am actually several thousand pounds down each year from my peak earning years. I think you will find most crew who have reached the top of the increment tree a few years back will agree with me. This has of course saved BA millions in salary costs.

[123breath]

So what was the figure on your P60, or March pay slip this year, and what is your position/seniority?

[Safety Concerns]

shame more threads can't be like this one. Well done to all involved. Very informative and no abuse or silly comments.

Puts quite a few arguments to bed

[123breath]

It's interesting that no one from BA has come forward with figures yet.

Here are some of my answers, and once again please correct me if I'm wrong;

BA main crew post '97 contract less than 5 years' seniority = £30,000 (4 years)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £55,000
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 25 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000

Could someone please fill in the gaps?

[numberfifteenplease]

Dont know where you are getting your figures from but I am more than happy to share.

WW CSD 23 years (14 Years as CSD) 75% Contract - March 10 Payslip = £38,865.14
March 09 = £36693.27
March 08 = £36695.48
YTD Sep 10 = £15,742.40

[poorleno]

Didn't really want to get involved in all this but its initiating what an earth do you think we earn.
Main crew 3 years seniority
Full time , bid for 3 days multi sector trips. Long days very busy roster p60 19.024
You are way out. I would say I am on a par with other airlines. In fact my friend at easy takes home more

[poorleno]

And I must add my basic is 11992 has gone up $400 since I started 3 years ago, so do not believe we have astronomical increments etc etc

[Bunk Monitor]

123Breath, I am main crew, 20-odd years service, full time and the figure on my P60 was £37,000. Obviously before tax and NI etc. That was an exceptional year, usually I earn less than that.

I don't know where you got the figure of £45,000 from :).

[123breath]

Now we're getting somewhere.

BA main crew post '97 contract 3 years' seniority = £19,000 (quoted)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 20+ years' seniority = £37,000 (quoted)
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000 (educated guess)
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 23 years' seniority = £51,500 (quoted, pro-rata from 75%)
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000 (pay slip that I've seen, corrected for RPI increases)

Could someone please fill in the gaps?

[Bunk Monitor]

The £85k isn't achievable 123. As I explained above all cabin crew are earning less now than they were 5 years or more ago. The £76k that you saw was exceptional even then and I very much doubt than ANY CSD's earn anywhere near that now owing to a reduction in premium routes, quicker flying times (thereby triggering smaller "box" payments) and less time down route triggering far less in the way of allowances.

[Tiramisu]

numberfifteenplease said,
123Breath,
Dont know where you are getting your figures from but I am more than happy to share.


Ditto.
These are my figures.

EF CSD Flying with BA 26 and a half years, CSD 12 and a half years.(full time)
Gross Taxable pay
March 2010:£47631
March 2009:£45979
March 2008:£46014

[numberfifteenplease]

Your maths simply do not stack up, how am I as a CSD expected to earn an additional £33,500 for just 12 years seniority???? According to my mortgage reference I only have another £1500 worth of incremental pay rises to go before I reach the top of the CSD pay scale.

Your top end figure just is not correct and is out by 000's

[Betty girl]

Your figures are way out when you guess the figures!

Purser E/F 22 years with BA 75% £28,159.94
If you pro rata that it comes out at £35,000

almost 20,000 less than your first guess and 10,000 less than your second.
Just don't guess.

[Tiramisu]

123Breath,
Agree with Betty Girl and numberfteenplease, your figures are off the mark. My salary was quoted directly from my payslip.

[TopBunk]

Purser E/F 22 years with BA 75% £28,159.94
If you pro rata that it comes out at £35,000

To be pedantic it doesn't, it comes out as £37,500+.

You need to add 1/3rd of the £28,160 to it to get the full time figure.

[jetset lady]

Hmmm...

Purser LGW F/T (but admittedly only 5 yrs seniority)

March 2010 - £18,424
March 2009 - £18,072

[Betty girl]

Ok agree Top Bunk. But still way off the guess.

[numberfifteenplease]

BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000 (pay slip that I've seen, corrected for RPI increases)

Why are you correcting for RPI increases?

In 2001 the average cost of a BA Cabin Crew member was £25,000 per annum.

In 2009 the average cost to BA of a Cabin Crew member was £31,400 per annum.

Over the same period RPI increase was 24%. Cabin Crew received an 'average' pay increase of 25.6%. An increase in pay v RPI over the period of 1.6%.

The expenditure total is for the salaries and allowances of all employees. Included are gross salary (before deduction of income tax, pension social welfare and voluntary payments), overtime pay, sales commissions, flying pay and subsistence allowances, (such as cost of living allowances, station and overseas allowances) and all crew hourly flight allowances (i.e. those in excess of travel and incidental expenses).

This data is not a 'guess' but taken from the CAA website. Over the same period another group of BA employees received 837% more of a pay increase then BA Cabin Crew. Any ideas which department? ;)

[123breath]

I adjusted for RPI increases to illustrate what the salary equates to in todays money......a common practice in accountancy.

The CAA 'average cost' figures that you refer to, whilst having some relevance in relation to other airlines (double! Glad to see you recognize the accuracy of these figures), bears no relation to the figure I used. You might have an even spread of salaries between £29,000 and £31,000 and find the average is £30,000, or equally an uneven spread between £25,000 and £85,000 giving an average of £30,000.

The fact that in BA some salaries are at a much higher level than the average, as has already been proved on this thread, illustrates an unfairness in the salary structure that may well be a reason for the current unrest.

[langtoftlad]

123Breath as you seem to be the dog with a bone on this - perhaps you'd like to reveal your earnings ?

[numberfifteenplease]

The CAA 'average cost' figures that you refer to, whilst having some relevance in relation to other airlines (double!), bears no relation to the figure I used.

You are right, the CAA figures have no relevance to the figures you used because they are genuine figures - not some figure allegedly seen on a payslip some years ago.


I adjusted for RPI increases to illustrate what the salary equates to in todays money......a common practice in accountancy.

Thank god then that you are not an accountant, the salary equates to whatever the salary is - irrespective of RPI increases.

The fact that in BA some salaries are at a much higher level than the average, as has already been proved on this thread, illustrates an unfairness in the salary structure that may well be a reason for the current unrest.

What?????? How can the salary structure have anything to do with the current dispute?????

Of course some salaries will be higher than the average, just like some salaries will be lower than the average!!!

It was you who started to throw around wildly exaggerated salary numbers on a spurious claim that you had 'seen' a wage slip a few years back - a claim I might add that you cannot substantiate.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, your guesstimates are way off the mark and nowhere near the real figures of Cabin Crew remuneration that you and many others think Cabin Crew in British Airways receive.

[123breath]

Then perhaps this thread has done you a service? I will now confess that I did think that your salaries were slightly higher than you now claim. It was hard to get anyone from BA to come forward with what they earn, and so I will now admit I was deliberately provocative in my initial posts. For that, I apologize.

But it worked, and the numbers are slowly coming out, so well done me.

You ask what the current salary structure has to do with the current dispute....well clearly there are a lot of cabin crew who feel that they are not paid an excessive salary, and that may be true. But there are some who are definitely paid well over the going rate, and I would suggest they they are the ones causing most of the trouble, dragging the others along with them. Understandable to a degree, they have a lot to lose.

My salary has nothing to do with this thread. I will however point out that 'pro-rata' I am paid less than my Virgin flight crew counterparts. Whilst on paper I am paid approximately 15% more than them, I am contracted to fly 900 hours a year against their 750 hours, a 20% difference. In crude terms, they are paid 5% more than me. The CAA figures do not make that distinction, but it is fact. According to those CAA figures BA cabin crew cost double Virgins as I recall......do you work twice as hard? Remember, this thread is entitled 'Market rate....'

You're right too in that I cannot prove that I saw what I saw on that pay slip 6 years ago.......but then I don't have to.

[123breath]

BA main crew post '97 contract 3 years' seniority = £19,000 (quoted)
BA main crew post '97 contract 10 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 15 years' seniority
BA main crew old contract 20+ years' seniority = £37,000 (quoted)
BA LGW purser post '97 5 years seniority = £18,500 (quoted)
BA purser old contract 15 years' seniority
BA purser old contract Euro Fleet 22 years' seniority = £37,500 (quoted)
BA purser old contract 25 years' seniority = £45,000 (educated guess. Pressumably pursers WW are paid more than main crew WW with same seniority?)
BA purser old contract 35 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 15 years' seniority
BA CSD old contract 23 years' seniority = £51,500 (quoted, pro-rata from 75%)
BA CSD old contract Euro Fleet 26 years' seniority = £48,600 (quoted)
BA CSD old contract 35 years' seniority = £85,000 (pay slip that I've seen, corrected for RPI increases)

Could someone please fill in the gaps?

[Bunk Monitor]

123, please take off the £85k wage it doesn't exist. It would imply that the CSD has a basic of over £65k a year and they don't.

[123breath]

A year ago you and your colleagues were denying that the salaries above existed, in the face of media scrutiny, and yet now you admit to earning up to twice the national average salary. Who knows, the CSD who's pay packet I saw might step forward soon.

[numberfifteenplease]

What is your agenda?

The title of this thread is about Market Rate salaries for Cabin Crew - you are attempting to hijack it and turn it into a "lets bash BA Cabin Crew who have worked for over 20 odd years for BA and earn good money"


A year ago you and your colleagues were denying that the salaries above existed, in the face of media scrutiny, and yet now you admit to earning up to twice the national average salary.

Nobody ever denied that the salaries existed - You will find that it was those Cabin Crew who where on less than the figures quoted by BA that said that.

And for your information the average salary in the London area is £32,604 - the UK average is £25,428.

You came on this thread with a half baked story of a BA CSD who 6 years ago according to you, earned £75,000 - when your story has been shown to have no substance you now go on about National Averages - what are you on about - I am failing to see your point. In fact what is your point?

Who knows, the CSD who's pay packet I saw might step forward soon.

He won't step forward because he doesn't exist

BA main crew post '97 contract 3 years' seniority = £19,000 (quoted)
BA main crew old contract 20+ years' seniority = £37,000 (quoted)
BA LGW purser post '97 5 years seniority = £18,500 (quoted)
BA purser old contract Euro Fleet 22 years' seniority = £37,500 (quoted)

As you can see from your own table - the majority of Cabin Crew are earning less than the National Average wage and far less than the average for London.

[langtoftlad]

123Breath, I fully respect your right to keep your earnings to yourself - so I'll make an "educated guess" that it's six figures...

I also won't quote an actual figure - but will point out that I earned 12.5% less in 2009/10 than I did in 2006/07... relevance... just your RPI assumptions are incorrect, as is your educated guess of £45k for a Purser 25years... way off.
£85k CSD - fantasy.

Whatever we all earn after many years of employment is not really relevant is it? I don't think anyone disagrees that market rate for any employee is less now than it once was. And comparing salaries negotiated & agreed 25 years ago does not reflect the more realistic "market rate" of post '97 or SFG contracts.
Surely it is only to be expected that employees will do all that they can to protect the T&C's they agreed to? Especially when attacks on those agreements are not emulated by those at the top. Even if those efforts ultimately fail.
BALPA tried to resist Open Skies and will no doubt try to resist the introduction of 'Cruise Pilots'. Why? To protect the earnings of their current membership.

[ottergirl]

Eurofleet CSD 75%
23 years seniority of service, 5 as CSD

2010 - £28, 126
2009 - £29, 927
2008 - £32, 900

Going down!! In fact I have to go back to when I was a purser in 2005 to earn the same as I did this year.

[yadayada]

i do not doubt that a full time ba csd who joined in 1969 and worked for 35 years is on a decent wage.

however, if you saw that payslip, i put it to you that it is likely it was artificially inflated somehow, with perhaps a large profitshare bonus, or some ground duty payment or something.
the top of the csd payscale is way less than 50 grand. allowances, while significant, are nothing like a quarter of that.

we are talking about someone who probably joined boac and definately worked ba before privatisation.

and to use their wage as part of a market rate comparison is ridiculous.

[tomkins]

123breath
it would seem that you have managed to take this thread way off track.When I posted this thread initially it was in order to get an idea of current market rates, pay, terms and conditions for crew who have started flying in the last couple of years , thus getting an idea of what the proposed offer of market rate plus 10% that was promised for new fleet,might represent.
Bill Francis said that it would be financially interesting for LGW crew to move over to the new fleet,so I was trying to find out scales on which they would base new fleet pay terms on.Nowhere do I see anything that would make it a profitable venture for LGW crew to move to the new fleet.What is on offer is certainly not MR plus 10%.

[123breath]

Numberfifteeplease -

My agenda is to bring to light the salaries paid to BA cabin crew in the context of the market rate. I thought I had made that very clear. It so turns out that those salaries are slightly less than I thought, so you should be pleased to have made that point. You say it was the lower earners amongst cabin crew that were most vocal in their protests, which is true, as no one from the higher earning community spoke up at the time. To do so would have highlighted their much higher salaries in the public eye. This thread has brought them out of the woodwork.

I didn’t say that CSD earned £75,000, I said £72,000. You seem upset that I have increased this figure in line with RPI, and so I will stop doing that, just to please you. He was paid £72,000 in the year 2004, and I would imagine he has retired by now. Could it be that he was one of those amongst you that were creaming off the best trips by way of a neat little arrangement with your schedulers? That might explain it perhaps. I’m sure you’re aware of what went on, although perhaps we shouldn’t stray from the current topic.

I once heard it said that, when taken as a group, the top third of cabin crew in BA earn twice as much as the bottom two thirds. Willie Walsh has obviously decided to sort that anomaly out, in line with his duties as CEO of BA. In light of Bassa’s behavior in recent years I would suggest that he and previous CEO’s have been extremely patient, forgiving, and, dare I say it......weak, in their dealings with Bassa. One might say Bassa got too big for its boots. Well, surprise, that appears to have changed now.

langtofllad -

This is not about my salary, but to satisfy your curiosity, the market rate for a senior longhaul captain is indeed six figures.......and I refer you to my previous posts about the market rate. I am paid the market rate. In fact slightly less in real terms, in comparison with my Virgin colleagues. Captains in certain other airlines around the world have salaries significantly higher than mine, with much better perks, but such is life.

How far off is my guess of £45,000 for a purser, when a main crew member with a similar seniority has openly said that he/she was paid £37,000 last year? You say it’s ‘way off’. Define ‘way off’ if you would.

You ask whether what we earn after many years of employment is relevant. Of course it is, especially when competing in a marketplace where other companies have much lower costs. Surely you can see that? It’s the grim economic reality that the whole world, including Bassa members, must face. The only reason BA may now have any future at all is because of the various cutbacks made since the days of ‘closing the gap’ in the 90’s. Old contract cabin crew have closed no gaps of significance, and their pay is ‘way off’ the market rate.

I have no argument with anyone who is paid the market rate, including the more junior crew, and those tasked with running BA. I don’t have the time or inclination to research the market rate for the CEO of a blue chip company, but if Willie Walsh is paid significantly more than that rate I will join any protest against his salary. I do know that he has made some generous gestures of the last year or two though.

I couldn’t agree more with your assertion that it is only to be expected that employees do all that they can to protect their T&C’s. If you truly believe in that then you too will have no problem understanding where the VCC came from. It is why I stand alongside all those from all departments, many of them Unite members, in BA’s defense against a Bassa that seems to have completely lost the plot, and which threatens my future. I find some comfort in the knowledge that, should BA fail for any reason, passengers will still want to fly, the aircraft will still exist to fly them, and a new entity will rise from the ashes of BA which will employ staff at something near the market rate. No change for me there then.

Something that is not relevant to this thread is the notion of the ‘Cruise Pilots’ that you refer to. An interesting rumour, a role that was very popular amongst co-pilots during the days of the Sydney postings in the early 90’s, as it was a role filled by a fully qualified pilot being paid the market rate for an easy ride with enhanced bidding seniority (due to the fact that only cruise pilots could bid for certain long range trips). It was a very nice little number!

Sorry Moderators, I digress!

I have been accused of hijacking this thread, and so will make this one of my last posts.

I'm sorry tomkins, it does appear that your initial intention for the subject matter of this thread was starter rates for mixed fleet. I should have started my own thread entitled 'Market Rate for cabin crew'

[Betty girl]

123breath.
BA is not trying to alter the pay of any crew, it is bringing in a new stater rate and new terms and conditions for future crew, so no I don't think this stance of yours is relevant. Having said that I am glad it has shown our salaries not to be as high as you had thought.

If you compare your salary with a low cost carrier you would be seen to be very well paid but I don't think pprune would like me to set up a thread for those pilots to come on here and compare their salaries with yours.

If you compare our salary to Air France, Iberia, old contract Quantas and Lufthansa crew I think you might find we earn similar and in a lot of cases, less than many of them.

So I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

P.S. I was recently told by a pilot that some ww pilots are going part time because otherrwise they are into the 50% tax bracket ( thats any one earning over £150,000) and it is better to be part time than work full time and pay the extra to the tax man. However I would be surprised if anyone started a thread asking BA Captains to tell us their salaries. It would be a bit personal, don't you think?

[TightSlot]

Please continue BA discussions on BA thread