Easyjet Hold Pool [Archive]

SinBin

24th Apr 2010, 18:03

I'll batten down the hatches and take the flack. I maybe one of these ex bmi, parc SFOs who have recently joined easy on a flexi-contract this summer with a permanent position from November. I am certainly not paying to fly in fact quite the opposite. My next roster I have 90+ hours at £67 per hour paid to me, with a self employed tax of at least 75% retention of salary. I don't have a calculator but that isn't that bad as long as the rest of the summer is like that. I don't like this deal as it has no solid guarantees that a permanent position brings, but this keeps a roof over my head whilst I examine all options open to me.

I have to say that in this day and age having a full ATPL with a few thousand hours on type and the right contacts in the industy does open doors slightly, but this option was the only one available to me and times have changed since 20 months ago i am sorry to say. Hopefully the good old days of sponsorship and airlines employing people direct and paying for ratings as bmi did for me will return however with last weeks events this may have put that back by 6 months.

Sorry if this pisses some people off but thats the way it is I'm afraid.

Lubeoil

25th Apr 2010, 00:46

Does anyone know if Easyjet will be employing 737 drivers through Parc/CTC? I believe that Newcastle and Belfast are still Boeing bases.
I must say that I agree with SinBin. Take what you can to keep current and hopefully better times are around the corner for all.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

25th Apr 2010, 01:14

I think all those currently knocking easyJet, and there are no shortage of them, would do well to read SinBin's post. He is one of those Parc 'losers' who were taken on under 'dire' conditions. He now has the promise of a full time contract with easyJet - in the current climate that is not bad. He will not be on a brilliant deal, but it will be a whole lot better than working for Vietnam Airlines or similar.

Lubeoil - Both Belfast and Newcastle are now Airbus bases and the last of the Belfast pilots are now going through the training system from the 737 to the Airbus as we speak. I cannot give an exact figure but I believe we now only have around 6 737s left - all based in Luton. Hope that helps.

sk8erboi

25th Apr 2010, 23:07

Over the years I have read your posts NSF and respected them fully, even when I have wondered what on earth is going on at EZY. They are always rational, coherent and most of all fair.
BUT
He is one of those Parc 'losers' who were taken on under 'dire' conditions. He now has the promise of a full time contract with easyJet - in the current climate that is not bad. He will not be on a brilliant deal, but it will be a whole lot better than working for Vietnam Airlines or similar.
makes you sound like an apologist for a very poor offering from your employers. I can't be bothered looking through your past posts and won't insult you by doing so. However I'm sure in the past you have proffered the view that hourly paid contracts are a piss take, especially for type rated, experienced guys. A view I agree with. Low houred P2F monkeys I don't give a damn for. In my opinion they reap what they sow. But guys who entered and served in this profession long before rich brats started ruining it for us I think deserve better. maybe you have been brainwashed by the Orange machine. I hope not. But as a Balpa CC member, albeit on a much smaller scale, I am disappointed by your views.

Best Regards

stansdead

25th Apr 2010, 23:43

You are NOT self employed. PARC and eJ may tell you that you are, but you are definitely not.

Let me ask you these questions (before HMRC does):

1) Are you provided with a roster?
2) Are you provided with tools? i.e. an aircraft, a crew room, charts etc
3) Do you provide your Piloting services to more than one operator?
4) If you are sick, do you have someone you send in your place to act as a "sub"?

If you can answer NO to 1 + 2 and YES to 3 + 4, then you may have a chance. But, we all know and HMRC know that this is clearly not the case. Be careful. And I'd be careful about bragging about your Tax affairs on PPRUNE. It's a bit dumb to be honest.:ugh:

SinBin

26th Apr 2010, 08:14

Stansdead, don't worry it is all above board! Self employed is not strictly my situation, I'm not bragging at all. Just telling how it is. I'm just sitting this out until the end of the contract with gritted teeth.

Wingswinger

26th Apr 2010, 08:30

sk8erboi

He is one of those Parc 'losers' who were taken on under 'dire' conditions. He now has the promise of a full time contract with easyJet - in the current climate that is not bad. He will not be on a brilliant deal, but it will be a whole lot better than working for Vietnam Airlines or similar.

I think NSF was employing some gentle sarcasm don't you?

A view I agree with. Low houred P2F monkeys I don't give a damn for. In my opinion they reap what they sow. But guys who entered and served in this profession long before rich brats started ruining it for us I think deserve better.

Such a balanced viewpoint. That sort of language does nobody any credit. You have strong views. We all do on some subject or other. That does not entitle us to refer to fellow pilots whom we do not know as "monkeys" or "rich brats". I don't know what company CC you are a member of but as a BALPA CC member you ought to remember that these fellows may also be BALPA members now or in the future. Incidentally I have just done a simulator detail with one whom you would refer to as a "monkey" or "rich brat". He was good. Very good. And very knowledgable for his stage of training. Indistinguishable from the good hand-picked cadet of yesteryear.

I deplore what has happened to the entry conditions for FOs but I have to say we are powerless to stop it within the law. Only airline executives and legislators can stop it. They have to be lobbied relentlessly. But, if we use the sort of language you use it will win no friends and win no battles.

stansdead

26th Apr 2010, 08:33

Good luck Sin Bin.

All I am trying to advocate is that these bulletin boards are read with interest by lots of people. Including HMRC.:eek:

Norman Stanley Fletcher

27th Apr 2010, 23:53

sk8erboy - thanks that at least over the years you have liked what I have said, even if now you do not! I think you misunderstood what was said - the simple fact is that we are at last now giving permanent jobs to high-houred pilots. A number of the guys who came from Parc via BMI are now being offered full-time jobs easyJet. That, folks, is good news and we should be grateful for it. No one has detested the disgraceful terms and conditions that were offered to our FOs than me, but there are signs that little by little things are improving. I can only tell you that right now any permanent job in the UK flying Airbuses is a rare beast indeed - as far as I know easyJet are the only company doing it. Therefore, knock us if you will, but we are offering something no one else is. As I say, it is not all bad.

Permafrost_ATPL

28th Apr 2010, 13:26

NSF, I'd rather see cadets being offered a normal decent entry permanent contracts, instead of ex-BMI guys. No offence to them, but because of their hours they will most likely end up ahead of me on the command waiting list even though I am eligible for CPI. Our flight deck requirements are not such that we need to get either captains or command ready FOs. Many of us could have gone elsewhere 3 or 4 years ago but decided that easyJet was an OK place to climb the ladder. I know we are not a seniority based airline. But these are not desperate times in terms of recruitment, so rewarding loyalty wouldn't cost much.

P

Mac72

28th Apr 2010, 13:42

NSF
You failed to mention that at least 12 of the ex-bmi are j. curd's P2F chapps :=

mac

ZBMAN

28th Apr 2010, 13:45

I know we are not a seniority based airline.

Perhaps it is time we thought about it. Even if it doesn't fit in the orange ideology.

SinBin

28th Apr 2010, 14:32

MAC we're not talking about them and they were never 'ex bmi'. They have't got the same full time contract offer as the guys with 1000 hrs +. There were about 7 of us on the Parc contract and about the same with CTC.

eagle21

28th Apr 2010, 19:51

NSF
You failed to mention that at least 12 of the ex-bmi are j. curd's P2F chapps

mac

And you forgot to mention some of these have 8000 hours total, previous jet experience and command experience on turboprop...

One thing I have learnt is that you have to look case by case.

Respect other and if anyone is not happy with their own situation they should change it.

Mac72

29th Apr 2010, 10:28

eagle 21
not having a go at you or direspecting you, two of my mates lost their job at bmi because of the P2F scam.
the point i was trying to make is, it would be interesting to know if any of the P2F guys will be offered perm contracts too.
m

Mister Geezer

29th Apr 2010, 13:14

Well I personally feel it is sad to see a comparison being made between one of the biggest operators in Europe and what is essentially a flag carrier from a developing country in the Far East. When viewed in that context, it is laughable.

Perhaps it is just me but does anyone else get the feeling that as time passes, many more people are donning the rose tinted glasses and are now starting to view the glass as half full with the current recruitment practices?

For anyone who does want to join easyJet then I can only sympathise wholeheartedly, since having no option than to take such an indignant entry into the RHS of an Airbus, is extremely sad. Even more so, since I think many of us know very well that things will only get worse and are very unlikely to get better.

EpsilonVaz

29th Apr 2010, 16:03

Mac72, as far as I know, only people who have more than 750 hours (in February) have been offered perminant contracts, be they in Parc or CTC.

Eddie Hitler

29th Apr 2010, 17:15

I concur with EpsilonVaz. The CTC Flexicrew pilots who were originally stood down in 2008 have now been offered permanent positions from 1st November.

I don't know anyone from Parc but have heard if they have over 750 hours they have been offered a position. :ok:

Elephant and Castle

30th Apr 2010, 06:55

If you are CPI ready as you say I doubt these guys will get a command ahead of you. They will need to do at least one good LPC, then get a pre-CPI, then wait to be rostered for the three command prep flights to get to the position where you are now. Not sure how long that is at the current flow but from what I hear at least three years.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

2nd May 2010, 19:17

As always, on this forum there are a wide range of opinions - some informed and others less so. I have never pretended that I have anything other than utter disdain for the current FO contracts. I have to say, however, that things are not all bad at easyJet - right now there are few other companies in Europe I would wish to work for. If you are fortunate enough to have commenced a career at an early age with your national flag carrier, then I say well done to you - assuming it does not go bankrupt underneath you then you are truly blessed. For anyone else, companies like easyJet are a godsend.

Let us look at what is actually happening right now at easyJet rather than the failings of the past. As a little aside, if you are an FO or Captain with days leave to sell back you can get some serious money right now - I myself have just finished 2 days' leave flying at £980/day + sector pay + my regular salary. I would suggest to you that this is a good deal. If you are a Captain, and you are willing to surrender your 5/3/5/4 rostering for random rostering from June - August inclusive, easyJet are offering an EXTRA £10,000(or £5,000 if you are an FO). Once again, I would suggest there are worse fates to befall you. I have also, along with everyone else at easyJet, just been given 2 weeks' salary worth of share options as a thanks from the company for all our hard work during the recent disruption - I am frankly extremely grateful.

Regarding FO contracts, which quite rightly have been the source of much angst in the pilot community, things are changing. We are offering permanent contracts to around 50 pilots in 'seniority' order assuming you have more than 750 hours on type - thereby provding permanent jobs to both redundant BMI pilots and CTC cadets who have been on temporary contracts for the last 2 years. Once again, I would invite contributions from others who know of other UK airlines offering such opportunities right now. I will quote from the latest p-mail internal news to state what else is happening to give a feel for what is happening at easyJet right now.

We were originally planning a total of 37 promotions to Captain for the summer 2010 programme. Operating additional aircraft and re-phasing of the flying programme together with increased attrition means that we have now increased this to just over 80 Commands with a smaller number operating in the LHS on a seasonal basis. We are now at maximum training capacity. All Command offers have been on the current Terms and Conditions with the exception of a potential FRV (Flexible Rostering Variation) period for 6 months over the Winter period (there is a payment attached to this period if FRV is undertaken). EasyJet have confirmed to pilot representatives that they do not plan to engage Contract Captains for the Summer providing we can achieve the necessary flexibility through the schemes that have proposed (not withstanding the small number of CTC Trainers that operate for us as part of the CTC training contract).

We have added a further 110 First Officers to the pilot establishment numbers for Summer compared to an initial requirement of 88. We are now at maximum training capacity for the summer. We have engaged both ab-initio pilots from CTC and Oxford as well as a significant number of experienced Airbus FO’s from Parc Aviation and CTC. We have offered a letter of intent to employ just under 50 First Officers that have a minimum of 750+ factored easyJet hours and will fly for us over the coming Summer months. These pilots will be employed from 01 November 2010. Tell me, all you nay-sayers, where in Europe there is another company who can even come close to all this?

Is this a perfect company to work for? Absolutely not. Are there tensions due to the pressures on training and the overall flying programme? Absolutely. Am I mighty glad to have these problems rather than wondering whether I will ever work as a pilot again? Absolutely. In short, we are one of the few genuinely successful and stable airlines in Europe who are continuing to recruit despite the dire state of the overall airline industry. I fly brand new Airbuses every day to a staggering range of destinations in a safety conscious environment. I am delighted to be here, and for all its faults there is nowhere else in the world I would rather work right now. I will continue to back BALPA 100% in making easyJet 'a great place to work', and to fight the worst excesses of our management, but please let us see that we are genuinely in as safe a place as I know of right now.

foreveragain

2nd May 2010, 19:58

We have offered a letter of intent to employ just under 50 First Officers that have a minimum of 750+ factored easyJet hours and will fly for us over the coming Summer months. These pilots will be employed from 01 November 2010.May I ask why easyjet is offering permanent jobs to contractors and not to pilots who passed the direct entry pilot assessment in summer 2008? They too got a letter of intent and most of them are still current on 320 with thousands of hours on type, so why easyjet didn't offer a job to them too?

regards

si jet

2nd May 2010, 21:07

I agree with Foreever again; hence why I started this thread in the first place. I ve sat in the pool since July 2008, with a proposed start date later that year to be based in MXP. I am 737 rated, and was recommended by many TRI/TRE's Captains, Base Captain etc, and when I first applied to Easyjet in 2003, I was told that I needed TP or Jet time to be considered for the TRSS. So I went to an Airline and built up that Jet time, and reapplied, only to pass the selection and then be cast aside, because it now suits EasyJet.

I agree with NSF on many points. I have jumped through every hoop that Easyjet have asked me to jump through, yet I find myself, out of the pool come July, because I now don't have an Airbus rating! I feel that I'm just chasing my tail with this lot.

I've spoken to the recruitment dept, just to be told 'Sorry'! It's not there fault, but I feel very let down through no fault of my own. What's the point in going on about it though? My friends at Easyjet feel just as frustrated as me, but it's my wife and young children I feel really sorry for. I live minutes from STN, and I end having to commute hundreds of miles a week, to keep my job, where we don't know what the future holds from one minute to the next.

I do appreciate that my position is a lot better than those poor buggers, who have been made redundant and have not found work since. I don't forget that! However, I feel really fed up with the way it's all going, and I have started looking for non aviation work, so I can return to normaility, and get to spend time with my family, instead of waking up every morning, wondering if I am going to have a job today.

If, it's not the recession, it's terrorism or Volcanos or rising oil prices etc that's going cause another airline to go under or our T & C's to fall even further. The nature of our industry is highly volitile and vulnerable; that's just the nature of the beast I hear you say! You are right! I think what most of us are looking for is a bit of security for our families, a salary that matches our responsibilities, and some respect from the management. Too much to ask?

It's starting to look that way...

SiJet

Caudillo

3rd May 2010, 07:05

NSF, was that last post written for an audience on Pprune or an audience somewhere else..?

fade to grey

3rd May 2010, 11:05

Sin bin and ex bmi folks good luck at easy, this is the way it used to be with experienced pilots moving company

foreveragain

3rd May 2010, 12:54

I find myself, out of the pool come July, because I now don't have an Airbus rating!You are wrong on this one si, the reason can't be you are not type rated, indeed, as I said before, there are many in the holding pool who are A320 type rated and current and have more hours on type than some of the contractors presently being offered permanent jobs, still none of them heard from easy. It's indeed quite surprising that easyjet didn't even care to give an explaination to holding pool pilots about why they are no longer considered, nor they considered to at least give us priority for another assessment once direct entry recruitment will start again. Hopefully norman who is clearly in the know may enlighten us about this new recruitment policy.... :(

heebeegb

3rd May 2010, 14:37

Double the drift - spot on. The airline is a shambles. Crewing levels are a joke and although I have no problem with people taking the money to fly a flexi roster, I hardly think that is something for NSF to highlight as an example of what a great company we are!!!

Very rose, very tinted specs. Expect pilots to leave in droves as soon as the opportunities arrive.

BitMoreRightRudder

3rd May 2010, 15:42

Expect pilots to leave in droves as soon as the opportunities arrive

Correct. 5 CTC slave F/Os' stuck 2 fingers up to the company and resigned for pastures new last week. Well done to them and good luck. Expect a large number of F/Os' and quite a few skippers to leave in the not too distant future should opportunities arise elsewhere.

NSF

It will take more than a few grand in exchange for having a life over the summer and some free "conditional" share options to convince me anything has changed at easy. Nothing has - they have completely :mad: it up regarding crew numbers for the peak season, as we all knew they would. Summer of 2006 all over again anyone? They are buying us off to cover their own mistakes and piss poor decisions that were driven by a combination of corporate greed and a complete disdain for anyone within the company other than top level management. The only positive news is offering full time contracts to F/Os who have been treated like part time shelf stackers for 2 years. However, that is no great credit to our paymasters - they are simply doing something that common decency dictates they should have done a long time ago. Same with the pay deal on offer, sector pay for positioning and proper sector pay for flying to the Middle East and back in one duty is not generosity that we should all applaud, it is the company rectifying something we should have had years ago.

If they really wanted to make easy "A great place to work" and "re-engage" with the pilot workforce they could. The problem of course, as always, is it would require them to spend some money and take a long term view of how they crew the airline. And we all know they would rather set fire to their own underpants than do that.

I doubt I am alone in thinking this summer will be, erm, "interesting". :uhoh:

Norman Stanley Fletcher

3rd May 2010, 23:20

si jet - I cannot in any way justify what has happened to those in the hold pool. What I can tell you is that, in my judgement, it is very unlikely that any of those people will be offered jobs any time soon by easyJet. The whole recruitment situation has changed so dramatically, and we now have large numbers of temporary pilots looking for permanent jobs. Quite rightly they will be considered first, and it is only after they have jobs that we will look elsewhere. I am genuninely sorry that you guys have been treated so shabbily, but I nonetheless think that is what will happen.

Claudio - My comments are not to a 'wider audience'. I have no ambitions whatsoever in management, and neither seek their favour or fear their disdain. I am in the fortunate position of having a job I am very content in at easyJet, and if never promoted again would be very happy with where I have got to. I do, however, have some concerns about the attitudes of some both in and out of easyJet to all that is going on. There are a number of pilots working for easyJet who, if they were given a free Ferrari by the company, would have been given one in the wrong colour! All is not perfect at easyJet, but there are some very positive aspects to working here - which I have tried to highlight. There are a lot of pilots on here who would genuinely feel better if easyJet went bankrupt, and that includes some of those working there. It would somehow justify the ridiculous excesses of their opinions. We are indeed in a crewing shambles - I am unashamedly doing everything I can to ensure we run our program over the coming months. That is because I want our customers to come back again and because it is in all of our interests to fly for a successful airline. That is just pure common sense - alas, experience shows that common sense is neither common or evident to most people. I do not like what has happened in that last couple of years any more than anyone else, but I do detect a new reality coming in among our managers. They now know that keeping the pilots and cabin crew on board makes sound business sense - it is just a shame it has taken them so long to find out what any of us could have told them years ago. Whatever the mistakes of the past, I choose to look towards the future. It can be bright if we choose to make it so. I sure want easyJet to recover from the current situation. If ever there was a time to pull together to make easyJet successful, this is it. I would humbly suggest that those who are within would do well to think likewise.

Fifty Above

4th May 2010, 07:26

I do detect a new reality coming in amongst our managers.

Don't be so naive NSF, they are in a hole and you and all the others who are happy to take the Queen's shilling are digging them out! You've been complaining on here for ever about how much the easyJet management are only interested in short term gain, then you have the gall to boast about how much you are making by working your days off.

Sir, you are a hypocrite.

heebeegb

4th May 2010, 07:35

NSF - you amaze me. I expect you also believe that Mr's Brown, Clegg and Cameron have our best interests at heart too!

Flyit Pointit Sortit

4th May 2010, 08:25

My wish is that we do not let these contract F/Os go anywhere near a permanent easyjet contract. For while these guys are taken on ahead of those in the hold pool, the temporary contract will be seen by many as the only way into the company. This will lead to more people signing up.

The only beneficiary from this situation is CTC.

Other than for those reasons detailed in the Berger report, I see no benefit of streaming money out of the company to those arrogant CTC Tw:mad:s when it could be kept inhouse, employing motivated, talented people on permanent contracts.

FPS

Ashling

4th May 2010, 09:02

So management screw up and will cause, as yet unknown, significant damage to our brand and inconvenience to our passengers. The tactic some/most of you on here seem to advocate is to cause further damage to our brand and reputation by non co-operation in the hope that our management will be sacked on the spot. Great plan bound to work .....

If you find yourself in a badly damaged boat you don't sit there moaning about the crew that got you into the mess, you start bailing while you moan so you can get to a port were you can then duff the crew up and hold them to account. Maybe your efforts mean the repercussions for the crew are not as severe as they might have been (they will still be severe) but then you are alive in a calm port and not swimming in the ocean (looking for a job) because the boat sank.

NSF is right when he says some of you could be handed a Ferrari and you'd complain about the colour. You are the opposite end of the spectrum to Cor but no less misguided. I am being offered more money in exchange for work when most of my friends are taking pay cuts if they even still have a job. I loath this management but I love my family, my home and my job and I want to keep them. I've already started bailing.

heebeegb

4th May 2010, 15:05

pleased for you mate.

Company Message

4th May 2010, 15:40

Ashling,

Perhaps you'd like to explain why not offering to give up precious summer leave and days off is "non co-operation". This is just the sort of reverse psychology employed by the management to try to convince us that we are the "problem".

How "co operative" have they been during the pay negotiations? When asked for a day off? When asked for summer leave? When asked for an improvement to the crew food?

I work very hard as it is and I don't think I'm "misguided" in wanting to retain some semblance of sanity and well earned rest during what will, in any event, turn out to be a chaotic summer.

If the management had been more "co operative" then they might have listened to us in December and started recruiting some of your friends who you say don't have jobs.

The African Dude

4th May 2010, 18:34

I see no benefit of streaming money out of the company to those arrogant CTC Tw*s when it could be kept inhouse, employing motivated, talented people on permanent contracts.

Amazing. Genuinely sorry to hear that you think that about us. Would love to know what we might have done to give you that impression? For the benefit of everybody we fly with for the rest of our careers, that is?

Motivated we are (in spite of what's happened since we signed up), talented.. well, that's up to or future colleagues to decide. Are we really so different, Flyit Pointit Sortit?

Nevertheless, as NSF has said in the past, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and to be free to express it in a way which does not cause harm or threat of harm to others. That includes you, Flyit Pointit Sortit, so by all means, call us Arrogant Tw**s. I hope it makes you feel better.

My impression is that NSF has considerably more experience of working in easyJet than most of us here. Even as an ex-engineer, I find his comments to be unbiased and rich in factual material - something a bit lacking on these threads of late.

Edited for clarification :)

Lord Amberden

4th May 2010, 19:08

I think NSF was referring to CTC the organization, not any of their protégées who I've found to all be highly motivated and excellent people to work with.

WindSheer

4th May 2010, 20:29

Yes....African dude, read it again.

fiftypercentn1

4th May 2010, 20:44

it doesn' t matter who he was referring to. You don' t talk like that, period.

The African Dude

4th May 2010, 20:50

I was talking to Flyit Pointit Sortit. NSF I support entirely.

Ashling

4th May 2010, 21:13

Hi Company Message

My ire wasn't directed at those who do not take up the offer for genuine reasons of which there are many as it will suit some (me) but not others. It was directed at those who seem to think causing even greater disruption by deliberate non co-operation will somehow make things better. It will not.

I currently loath our management for the reasons you highlight and more but it is vital we keep a sense of perspective in all this and I think that was what NSF was driving at and I agree with him.

Over the next 2 years I will be something like 30k plus better off tax free due to various share schemes and options that the company have introduced. I got a quick command and 2 type ratings. The you at work scheme saves me 1000+ off child care and I get to see my family every day. So yes you are right it is not all great but it is not all bad either.

We need to get behind BALPA and ensure we fight through them as a united group not as fractured individuals and we need to ensure that we do not take our frustrations out on our passengers.

Flyit Pointit Sortit

5th May 2010, 08:34

Woah there.

I am taking this as a lesson in how what you meant is not what you said.

I am sorry if I offended anyone who is employed by or who has come through the CTC route, that was not my intention. My anger is vented at CTC the organisation.

The organisation that exloits the dreams of many to line their own pockets.

The organisation that is still trying to get people to hand over cash on the basis of a pilot shortage when there are still unemployed experienced pilots from XL, Globespan, BMI etc.

The organisation where one of the senior directors goes into a pub in Lyndhurst with a load of car brochures to brag about whether to get a maserrati or ferrari to several cadets who are worried about not getting placements and the looming potential of bankruptcy etc . He is one of the nastiest and arrogant individuals I have ever met.

Any scheme that gives a penny to the CTC organisation just grates me and the anger that this instills led to the use of that language.

I am also concernced that if easyJet only start offering permanent positions to those who have done a contract, then anyone who joins in the future will have to go through this route, ensuring a plentiful flow of cash from easyjet to CTC.

Again I was not trying to offend anyone who is employed by CTC as we all have to ensure that we are paying our mortgages. I am sorry if this has been the case. That said, anyone I have flown with from CTC has been of the highest standard both as individuals and pilots - just to be clear:D.

The African Dude

5th May 2010, 10:37

Hi Flyit Pointit Sortit,

My fault entirely for misunderstanding to what / whom you had directed your comments, and am somewhat relieved to hear that it's not the cadets! My apologies :) If what you say about the management behaviour is true then it makes me feel somewhat sick.

Anyway, sorry about the thread creep.

Doug the Head

9th May 2010, 18:45

NSF, was that last post written for an audience on PPRuNe or an audience somewhere else..?Spot on Claudio. ;)

Isn't NSF an 'unofficial member' of the recruitment team, peddling the various P2F/P4T schemes and working hard to divide the pilot corps with his company minded propaganda? Whenever push comes to shove, he backs down. No backbone, no forward looking vision, only short term thinking (making a quick buck over the summer season) looking out for his own training job.

His only followers are a bunch of unemployed wannabe's, clinging to his words in the hope of one joining his orange dream. Most experienced pilots take his words with a very laaaaaaarge grain of salt. :hmm:

Norman Stanley Fletcher

10th May 2010, 20:30

Ah, Doug - ever the man of balance. Whether 'experienced' pilots (I take it that means you) take my words with a large pinch of salt is entirely up to them (you?). I am always up for informed discussion and try to have a balanced view of things - but there again, why let the facts get in the way of a good rant? The first thing that puzzles me Doug is why on earth are you still working for easyJet? You hate the company with a passion and will go to extraordinary lengths to play your part in its downfall.

The current situation that is causing you such delight is us having insufficient pilots (particularly captains) for the summer. No doubt this has come about because of management ineptitude, and you are the leader of the pack in calling for 'punishment' of our management by making easyJet unable to crew its flights at our most profitable time of year. That attitude seems to me similar to finding yourself as a crew member on a cross channel ferry that has just collided with another ship because the captain was asleep in his cabin and is now taking on water. Do you then decide to let the ship sink to show the captain how bad he really is or do you help to man the pumps to save the ship? Common sense to me says that it would be in your interest to save the ship and wait till later to sort out the captain. Apparently not! Let's all sit back and watch a catastrophe unfold so that Cor and his mates get fired. I am a simple soul when it comes to this sort of thing. I actually want to see easyJet customers getting on the flights they booked and not have them go elsewhere.

One of the other accusations you make is that I have no backbone and that when push come to shove I back down. How exactly would that manifest itself? Do you want me to sabotage an aircraft or maybe find a hydraulic leak on the walkround to delay a flight? Perhaps even go sick at the last moment to stop the flight going? That would show them we mean business. Get real Doug - you are an increasingly sad figure whose obsessive rants against easyJet are just irrational. I have made it clear again and again that I would back industrial action at the right time for the right issue. Specifically, I would have gone on strike against the current FO contracts had the opportunity been offered. I have argued publicly with Cor both at Gatwick and at the SEP day - I can tell you that in both cases there were precious few others willing to do so. I will back any credible plan to improve pilots' terms and conditions. What I will not do is act irresponsibly to bring the company down in times of need. Right now, it is in every single pilot's interest that we crew every flight we can over the summer - only a fool can think otherwise. There will be plenty of time for recriminations - that should not prevent us from acting in our own best interests and ensuring the company can operate safely and successfully.

You need to leave easyJet soonest mate - let me recommend a particularly fine option. In today's Flight there is an advert from A320 Captains working for Safi Airways. They would be delighted to give you a job I am sure. And after you have worked for them for 6 months, come back and tell us all how great it is. You know they will pay you so much more, give you such a great roster and so much time off. You owe it to yourself - get a real job rather than a naff one like easyJet. And do you know the amazing thing Doug? There are literally hundreds of people queuing up to take your job if you leave. Maybe they are all berks just like me.

stansdead

11th May 2010, 05:38

You both have your points.

Doug, I am sure you have your reasons for hating easy, but NSF is correct in saying there are hundreds of people queuing up for your job.

I'm one of them, having recently applied.

There are far, far worse A320 jobs than the ones you have. Sure, it could be better, and if I joined I hope over time improvements can be made through whatever negotiating means you have.

However, I work for an airline who doesn't seem to have the ongoing stability, or even the daily stability of easyjet. You need to transport your passengers and fight the fight in the correct manner.

Now, how many DEC's are you taking.....?

fiftypercentn1

11th May 2010, 07:57

hopefully ZERO my friend

Shaman

11th May 2010, 08:09

So, by what date must eJ's pilots have replied to the company's offer?

kick the tires

11th May 2010, 08:22

From the horses mouth:

Fleet Plan

In the half year, we added six A320s and 9 A319s to our fleet, increasing our network capacity. As of 31st March 2010 we have a total fleet of 189 aircraft, with a further 57 planned to arrive over the next three years, replacing older aircraft and adding to our total fleet. By 30 September 2012 we expect to have a total of 208 aircraft in our fleet.

from a small horse:

We have doubled the number of promotions to Captain for the summer 2010 (from 37 originally planned to over 80 currently planned)

- We have added a further 110 First Officers to the pilot establishment numbers for Summer compared to an initial requirement of 88. We are now at maximum training capacity for the summer

- We have offered a letter of intent to employ just under 50 First Officers that have a minimum of 750+ factored easyJet hours and will fly for us over the coming Summer months. These pilots will be employed from 01 November 2010

stansdead

11th May 2010, 08:36

Exactly my point. Even though you obviously missed it.

Caudillo

11th May 2010, 14:45

No backbone, no forward looking vision, only short term thinking (making a quick buck over the summer season) looking out for his own training job.

Doug I'm generally with you in what I read from you on here, and I disagree with the sentiment that you wish to see Easyjet go down - however your above statement is totally wide of the mark. This I know for a fact, and I can promise you that despite my surprise at what seemed like his paean to Easyjet, you would be better off were more pilots in the same mould at NSF. I find ambivalence and apathy are the greatest threats in pilots selling themselves down the river but you won't find those qualities in him.

In response to the quote above I think you could argue that there is forward vision and long term thinking in making a quick buck over the summer. This leopard won't change its spots. "Making Easyjet a grrrreat place to work" is one of those vague, idle aspirations that gets trotted out every so often to show the rabble and then shoved back in the pile with paperless cockpits and nuclear disarmament. Given that, why take a hit and suffer for the greater good when ultimately it'll get you nowhere?

This is from parents' day today, latest report from teacher:

Excellent progress on cost reduction targets with initiatives in place to cover 70% of the £190 million per annum F'12 target

This is where the effort is going and this sow's ear ain't going to turn into a silk purse. It'll remain something you just can't polish. The company is dead against you, most of your colleagues really don't care - you're on a hiding to nothing. If he or someone else wants to take the money, why not? It will probably be the most realistic shot at improving your lot that you can make at that place.

PENKO

11th May 2010, 17:38

That attitude seems to me similar to finding yourself as a crew member on a cross channel ferry that has just collided with another ship because the captain was asleep in his cabin and is now taking on water. Do you then decide to let the ship sink to show the captain how bad he really is or do you help to man the pumps to save the ship? Common sense to me says that it would be in your interest to save the ship and wait till later to sort out the captain. Apparently not! Let's all sit back and watch a catastrophe unfold so that Cor and his mates get fired. I am a simple soul when it comes to this sort of thing. I actually want to see easyJet customers getting on the flights they booked and not have them go elsewhere.

Norman, I always appreciate your well thought out posts. But I think this does not do justice to what's happening in our company. We are not on a sinking ship. We have many many options.

I'll use part of you nautical analogy if I may. We are on one of those Roman warships, you know, the kind with peddles at the side for rowing when there's no wind. The officers in their infinite quest for eliminating cost have sacrificed a pig before setting sail to fight a war, believing the windgods will favour them with tailwinds all the way to battle. Hence they leave with 'optimised' levels of rowing crew..

However, the promised tailwinds do no materialise and now the ship is so slow and underpowered that they risk missing the war completely, and no war means no plundering. So the officers are now handing out bags of silver coins to volunteers who want to row non-stop for a week. The crew also realise that they might miss all the good plundering if the don't get on with it, but wonder if it is worth the extra silver coins if they work themselves to death. They call the officers and tell them that they are all willing to be flexible to a certain extent for a certain price. This might cost a bit more, but surely this is better than bribing a few greedy crew to overwork themselves? And who will need to take over when the greedy ones burn out? Exactly.

ReallyAnnoyed

11th May 2010, 19:12

Penko is much nearer the truth than NSF, in my opinion. NSF, you say that we should do our utmost to save the company this summer, but fact of the matter is that we will most likely make a profit - just not as big as management would like and that, is a good thing. Why? Because no manager anywhere cares for words in any way at all, although they do spout sugar-coated ones at the employees as they've been taught that it's good practise to do so when they did their MBA (Pikey O'Leary probably skipped a few classes though :} ). Cor and his cronies will be judged on their results. Not what we think of them. Therefore, I shall go no distance further in any way for the managers, but I will not sabotage the company either and I will then smile and shake my head when it all goes pearshaped this summer. And then I shall think no more of the company when I go home after a day's work before the next time I report. I do plan to have a nice summer :ok:

FliegerTiger

11th May 2010, 19:17

PENKO - nice one!

Fire and brimstone

11th May 2010, 19:37

I agree with Doug the Head and PENKO.

Never, have I heard so much common sense spoken.

Well done lads!

:D:D

green-dot-speed

17th May 2010, 11:46

Been swimmin' in the pool for more than 2 years, now I see parc and CTC guys getting in before me. Well I thought ezy was a serious airline, I understand it has become an unrespectful one, too.
cheers
G.D.S

si jet

17th May 2010, 15:41

GDS,

I know what you mean mate. That'a why I started this thread to begin with. It's time to look elsewhere and maybe somewhere out of this country might be a start.

So much for gaining experience on jets and working hard to better yourself. Hence why so many are looking at EK,EY etc in the middle east.

I wish you all the best for the future.

Sijet :ugh:

Shaman

28th May 2010, 12:07

Seems to have gone quiet! Does this mean that eJ has managed to get enough volunteers to crew all its planned services for June?

FlyingSpanner

30th May 2010, 13:09

Dont know if they have June sorted out but im working out here in Prague just now and the hotel was full of passengers the other night delayed 24 hours.

Reason being - No Crew to fly the aircraft!!!

Maybe they are a touch short of drivers?????

Spanner :ok::ok::ok:

clear of the tower

31st May 2010, 07:49

per company mail, "with the release of our winter schedule,some cost reducing measures will need to be taken in order to return to a level of strength" ,now what lies beneath these glorious words.:yuk:

Giggey

9th Jun 2010, 18:22

So, today new email with possible agreement for current Ezy employee but what about the new contract which will be effective from 1st oct?

Any Ezy Balpa member willing to get in touch? via pm?

tks.

wind check

9th Jun 2010, 18:28

same as ryan... easy hires only rubbish P2F guys in order to slow down union members, and things will end up like in ryanair, that's cristal clear. :yuk:

Thad Jarvis

9th Jun 2010, 23:25

hiring is type rated only. anyone being offered contracts this year is already working for the company on the flexiscrew scheme or via agency.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

10th Jun 2010, 13:57

wind check - you appear to have lost your way and stumbled onto a thread that really does not concern you. Given your much-stated view based on zero knowledge that easyJet is a 'sh!t company', I am not sure why you have anything to say on this issue. I can only presume that our selection system has worked perfectly in the past and rejected your application - not to worry though, you apparently work for the perfect company now and will no longer have to concern yourself with the trash companies likes ours. Interestingly enough, you asked previously how the p2f 'a$$holes' sitting next to me feel about their lot at easyJet. As one of them pointed out to you elsewhere, on the whole they feel pretty good. They are being offered permanent jobs and a steady improvement financially as their experience increases. That can only be good news for the future. We are not a perfect company but many of our issues as pilots have been addresssed in our latest pay offer (even though I now think it will be rejected). We are probably the only company in the UK being offered a pay rise (1% but it is still a rise) and I for one am delighted to be at easyJet right now.

By the way wind check, Doug the Head absolutely hates working for easyJet and cannot sleep in his bed at night because he is so stressed out by his £100k-a-year salary package, 6-months' sick pay, 7% company pension contributions, loss of licence cover, staff travel, night-stop allowances, positioning pay etc. Perhaps you might be so good as direct him to that perfect airline where you work a pre-set roster pattern so you can know your days off a year in advance, fly brand new Airbuses, can work all over Europe, are being offered a pay-rise instead of a pay cut this year and have more job security than just about any other airline around. Ah sorry, that would be easyJet and that's a really rubbish company. What about that perfect one you are in? It's called..... no, sorry, it just seems to have slipped my mind.

Sean Dillon

10th Jun 2010, 22:11

Oh Norman...do shut up!

Doug the Head

11th Jun 2010, 05:05

Still loyally pulling the management/PR/recruitment wagon, err Norman?

With all your gratis touting here, EZY must be saving a fortune by no longer having to place job adds in Flight Global! ;)

By the way, how are you doing with filling out those STRIKE papers? (http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/409701-easyjet-having-laugh-post5624055.html#post5624055) :p

wind check

11th Jun 2010, 10:00

Norman, as a matter of fact I used to fly for easy before and I left after 4 years for somthing much better. Working for a low cost airline is a very exhausting job and it's killing your body. Your days off are very usefull to catch up the lack of sleep, after 5 days in a raw of early wake ups finishing late afternoon, or early midays finishing late after midnight. 4 bloody long sectors in average and maximum duties. Lots of company pressure. In fact your life duration is going down EVERY day you go to work.
I'am affraid to remind you that you will retire at 65 and your funerals will take place less than 10 years aftewards. That's why you still think easyjet treat you well.

As for P2F :mad:, well, tell us how is their sh1t contract looking like, no fix crew base, sh1t hourly salary, etc, etc...This is getting even worse than Ryanair.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

11th Jun 2010, 17:25

Sean Dillon - thanks for your valued and insightful contribution.

Doug the Head - I suggest you and wind check get into a bit of a PM flurry and he can commiserate with you still not being able to escape from the evil orange empire. He can then share with you his exciting new life which is just so much better. Go on - you owe it to yourself to leave here mate.

My own personal careers advice is, of course, always available to you at no cost. On the domestic front, there is always a good chance our very own British Airways, flushed with its current success, is about to recruit willing FOs onto the Airbus. None of that nasty final salary pension to worry about now obviously which saves any anxiety over whether it might fold some day. Also, you would not have to concern yourself with the stress of command any longer as you won't be a captain there for at least 15 years. May I also suggest that for those seeking a warmer environment to bring a gentle thaw to that cold heart, Emirates and Qatar are an excellent places to start? A number of our former employees genuinely love it out there. Mr Akbar Al Baker in Qatar is a particularly reasonable gentleman to work for I am told and would welcome any constructive criticism you might care to share with him. Just think you could be part of that process of employee involvement in all company matters he has become so appreciated for. Then of course Atlas Air are recruiting DECs on the Airbus based in Marrakech - 7000 Euros per month before tax - but it just has to be better than life here don't you think? Then, for the more seasoned veterans, opportunity knocks out there in Vietnam. Oh, I nearly forgot - Senegal Airlines are about to kick off with a rather natty little A319 operation. And then of course there are countless Chinese opportunities - Deer Air, Hainan Airways etc. And finally, both Turkish Airlines and Onur Air have been sniffing about for DECs on the Airbus. Does it get any better? As you can imagine, every one of these companies just loves and esteems its foreign pilots, and would of course treat them with unusual respect and consideration at all times. The list is just growing by the day and I can only recommend every last one of them in comparison to easyJet, which as wind check can verify is just dire.

wind check - you cannot imagine my delight to discover that you are no longer having to subject yourself to that 'company pressure' every day. Strange thing is I never get any of that, but there you go. I wish you every success my friend out there in whatever promised land you have found - for us simple folk who just like to get home most nights and have a great day out with some great people, easyJet is actually quite a good life. And, there are a whole lot of 'p2f' people about to have permanent jobs at a time when countless other companies are laying people off. It really is terrible here compared with any company you care to name.

Mr Angry from Purley

11th Jun 2010, 17:43

where's "much better" then windjet, tell us all.....:O

45989

11th Jun 2010, 17:46

Dear dear, Norm. At least "Porridge" used to have lots of humour!
What's gone wrong at ***asy Jet?

superced

13th Jun 2010, 14:00

"Norman, as a matter of fact I used to fly for easy before and I left after 4 years for somthing much better. Working for a low cost airline is a very exhausting job and it's killing your body. Your days off are very usefull to catch up the lack of sleep, after 5 days in a raw of early wake ups finishing late afternoon, or early midays finishing late after midnight. 4 bloody long sectors in average and maximum duties. Lots of company pressure. In fact your life duration is going down EVERY day you go to work.
I'am affraid to remind you that you will retire at 65 and your funerals will take place less than 10 years aftewards. That's why you still think easyjet treat you well.

As for P2F , well, tell us how is their sh1t contract looking like, no fix crew base, sh1t hourly salary, etc, etc...This is getting even worse than Ryanair."

I Totally agree with that. I've been working at easyjet for the last two years and I am already exhausted.....moral very low..

Mr Angry from Purley

14th Jun 2010, 19:27

superced
Nothing to do with being French and not used to hard work perhaps??
:ok:

Doug the Head

18th Jun 2010, 15:20

Poor NSF, slowly being exposed as a sort of orange Leo Hairy Camel: selfishly touting the management horn or telling every to bug off if they don't like it, except when his own contract is at stake of course. Such chivalry...

But hey, then again, it's pretty obvious why, isn't it...? How many more months until retirement Norm? Anything to talk up that share price and cash in those options just in time before leaving the sinking ship, right Norm? The ends justify the means, 'ey... ;)

Like the Piper of Hamlin, our favorite direct entry "senior training captain" has gathered a following of naive, new and cheap cannon fodder (a.k.a. cadets) to feed the orange monster by telling everybody just how wunderbar life in the low-cost business is! Hey, it's so great that 'they even pay you whilst positioning,' isn't that fantastic! They f*cking better be Norman, because you're on f*cking duty! It's work and usually you get paid for doing that. :rolleyes:

These poor kids with 200 hours and a CPL must now feel truly shafted as they have been suckered into this Ponzi scheme of paying for ratings as they stand in line hoping to be privileged enough to pay for a P2F (P2BR) schemes, not sure of how and when they can make their next interest payment on that gigantic loan that get's bigger with every 'job.' Great advice Norm! I hope you scored enough brownie points in hanger 69! :yuk:

And the most scary thing about it: this low-cost sh!t will float all the way to the top, affecting all major airlines as they desperately will need to lower their T&C's in order to level the playing field to keep up with the low-costs. Soon there will not be any decent companies left over to escape to. That's why I'm so active against low-costs and the selfish, short term, naive idiots who defend it. Perhaps I have a bigger picture Norm, a picture that requires me to work for a few more decades (not months!) until retirement? :ouch:

Doug the Head - I suggest you and wind check get into a bit of a PM flurry and he can commiserate with you still not being able to escape from the evil orange empire. He can then share with you his exciting new life which is just so much better. Go on - you owe it to yourself to leave here mate. ;)